Why did Jesus die again? And was His death worth it in the end?

Just askin'.

Or was it for the right to bear arms?

I keep forgetting after a day of Fox "news".

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

supply side jesus.

following the sacrificial system of the people of Israel. Was it worth it in the end? Well, if you believe that your salvation is based on it, yup. Although I wonder if you aren't asking a whole lot more than that in your questions.

When he and his followers proclaimed him to be the Messiah, both the Jews and Romans thought he was coming to Jerusalem to lead a political rebellion against the Roman occupiers... for this the common people hailed his arrival, the Romans saw it as rebellion and wanted to capture him without causing a general uprising and the religious orthodoxy felt threatened by his heretical teachings. When it became clear that he was not preaching political rebellion against Rome, the Roman governor (Pilate) did not see him as a threat but the populous felt betrayed... the religious orthodoxy used this sudden turn of public opinion against Jesus to demand he be crucified... Pilate did not see the need for this but not eager to further agitate the population, handed him over to be crucified.

His name has been hijacked for too fucking long. Leave him alone. Like any rape victim, just leave him alone.

Little is known of the man.

I hope he did n't die for my sins, I prefer to clean up my own messes.

Not worth it. if he died for all of our sins. I would rather earn redemption thank you.

http://www.josephus-1.com/

Josephus mentions Jesus in Antiquities, Book 18, chapter 3, paragraph 3 (this paragraph is so phenomenal, that scholars now debate the authenticity of some of the more “favorable” portions of this text):

“Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.”

but I read once that this particular passage was written in latin vulgate while the rest of Josephus was written in Aramaic?

NT!

That is prett much the core message of the T... Man can not redeem himself in God's economy.

Traditionally I can't earn my own redemption.

But, then what kind of a system is it where I can't?

It's the idea of original sin. That man is flawed from the get go.

Man is flawed. We totally suck as a species.

But, I don't, or won't, or can't, buy into the idea that someone has to redeem me.

I'd have no problem with Jesus preaching the beatitudes. I have a problem with many today who believe that being good means dong nothing but attending services, quoting the "good book" and being judge mental of other not like us.

No one goes to the Father but through me does not mean sitting like fat capons on Sunday being lectured to and then doing nothing the rest of the week.

I have a problem with passivity. Meaning that if we just go and listen to more humans preach and read a book pieced together over the centuries by a multitude of writers we will be "saved."

In the meantime, we do not get better as mankind. We get more war like. We destroy nature. We are dishonest, violent, cruel and selfish.

It's time for mankind to get up off it's safe place of being saved and time to start getting to be better, more moral, more ethical and do the right thing. Time for us to start taking responsibility for the mess we are making of our lies and for this planet.

Look at the three, or four major religions. Jews, Christians, Muslims, and Hindu's, many are more orthodox and fundamental that ever. And look at our behavior. These 4 major religions are at war with each other, at least segments are.

I hope no one died for me, no one suffered for me, I hope that rather, we would be encouraged to be a whole lot more responsible than we are.

Jesus came and preached about a new law, a new way, love. That was seditious to the priests of the time, they turned him over to the Roman rulers who reluctantly crucified him for not recanting his beliefs. He died for his principles. But, I sure hope he never suffered and died for me, because I don't want anyone to do that. I can get the message of his preachings with out such sacrifice.

in which employees are underpaid and then charged for necessities so they're always in debt.

the differnce is that migrant workers are not free where as their is actually great liberty in the Christian faith...primari;y because the personal battle with "sin" becomes matter of concience rather than a matter of rule-following.

I am not suggesting churches don't overemphasize sin and are notseeking to place rules on others. I certainly can understand how people can be dismissive of the religious on that basis.

I am not suggesting that their is liberty to sin as the result of Redemption, simply that we are powereless to redeem ourselves.

That is sort of what the Book of Romans talks about.

Think of it as a carrot vs. stick issue.. Jesus offers a spiritiual carrot somthing we are hungry for whereas fundamentalism and offer its adherants the stick of conformity and legalism..

omniscient or omnipotent. But per christianity, this is the best a deity could come up with - a game in which the we're to be redeemed but are powerless to acheive it - like the migrant workers who are trapped in a system set against them.

We have all pretty much heard the message in the U.S.

Either growing up with it and/or on TV-vangelism 24/7.

So, knowing right from wrong then becomes a matter of using our God given free will.

If we live by the words of Jesus we earn our redemption. I don't think that prior to Jesus all of the people alive were simply unredeemed and stuck with original sin. I mean that's not what Jesus said.

I think he was saying that he was the new way, as opposed to the God of fire and brimstone and an "eye for an eye," in the O.T., the new way is, "turn the other cheek," and "do onto others as you would have them do unto you."

Maybe Jesus died for his beliefs- that is showing us the new way and he expects us to do the rest of the work?

Is there something in scripture where He say's He died for our sins? Honest question, at the moment I cannot recall. Did dying for our sins emerge as an idea from the apostles or did He actually say it?

I know He never said he was God.

"For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many." Mark 10:45

"just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many." Matthew 20:28

"I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. He will come in and go out, and find pasture. The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full. I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep." John 10 : 9-11

I lost my copy and I don't remember if it was him or another Roman historian.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

I'm not much of a believer, but I would never trivialize someone's beliefs the way you just did.

Jesus is a lost cause. Who the hell would hitch their wagon to a dork like that loser.

Why on earth would you make such a remark?

Do you honestly think there are no Christian Democrats?
Do you believe that all Christians are idiots?

Do you really think you will entice people to take the Democratic party seriously with that type of intolerance?

Some of you had better wake up.

If you don't want to believe, more power to you, but what's the point in trying to make those that do believe look inferior?

To me, someone with an attitude like yours is a hypocrite.

You align yourself with the Democratic party, yet you show the narrow mindedness of a republican.

The poster has every right to express his opinion on the subject, regardless of how vile it may be to those who hold a different view.

It's not necessarily the most subtle, or fair, view to hold, but it is no way intolerant. He's not hating Christians for being Christian.

(But yeah, as demonstrably false as I view the bulk of 'revealed' religions to be, even I wouldn't have made the Hitler reference, or called the man a dork - for one thing, I'd have to see as-yet-undiscovered evidence that Jesus existed in the first place before I could decide on my view of his personality!)

line. Jesus' teaching has a lot of value, even to non-Christians. Many progressives, peacemakers, and people who have changed the world for the better have followed the teachings of Jesus. So I guess according to your line of thinking, Martin Luther King, Jr. and Mother Theresa would be fools for having "hitched their wagon" to that "loser." They must have been out of their minds, all right. :eyes:

He said he took his nonviolent movement from out of Jesus' Beatitudes. But, as an Indian who had lived with British rule and their so-called "Christian" brutality, he was also not a Christian, he was a Hindu. His rejection of the untouchables and the rigid view of reincarnation was also challenged by the Sermon On The Mount. Remember one of Jesus' apostles, Thomas established a church in India which is there and populated by its decendants, to this day! Gandhi also said that he had seen the (world) Church and it was not very Christian, so why should he be? As a Christian I wholey agree with this great man and cannot follow many of the World Church's practices for the same reason. But, like Gandhi, I also believe with all my heart the words Jesus spoke and I try to live them, and the Church be damned! (literally)

BTW, Jesus did not die twice. Around 40 days after his ressurection, he was taken up into the clouds, as was the same way that Elijah and Mohammed left this earth. That he suffered death first is the only difference. I might add here that the this continent's Great Soul, Quetzlcoatle (sp?) was also taken from earth this way...Great Souls are sometimes taken in another way than death, so it seems.

My 2 cents

Cat In Seattle

Just kidding about Buddah. I'm Buddah shaped too, so I can understand having a bit of extra shape around the belly

Memoirs of Pontius Pilate
by James R. Mills

It's been thirty years since he sentenced the troublemaker to die, but Pontius Pilate can't get that Jew, Jesus, out of his mind. . . .

Forced to live out his life in exile, Pontius Pilate, the former governor of Judea, is now haunted by the executions that were carried out on his orders. The life and death of a particular carpenter from Nazareth lay heavily on his mind. With years of solitude stretched out before him, Pilate sets out to uncover all he can about Jesus—his birth, boyhood, ministry, and the struggles that led to his crucifixion. With unexpected wit and candor, Pilate reveals a unique, compelling picture of Jesus that only one of his enemies could give.

In a vibrant, inventive, completely engaging novel that places Jesus and his teachings in a wonderfully accurate historical setting, James R. Mills has created nothing less than a new gospel that illuminates the beginnings of Christianity from an astonishing and unexpected point of view.

.....

It's a good read if you if you can find a copy...

:shrug:

Jerry Brown's father, and is worth the read by itself.

Plastic nick-knack exercise gear? :shrug:

Rabbi Jesus was stoned to death in Londen when he was 63 yrs old.He
was never crucified.Christians need to research their history.Christianity is a myth

Its truly wonderful to walk among the truly enlightened.

But I still just cant figure out why Democrats cant seem to get Christians to vote the correct way.

I wonder why?

Maybe if we ridicule them some more, they'll finally see the light.

As hard as it is for Christians, try being a Jew. Oooops...I am being OVERSENSITIVE! No one here would EVER accuse the Jews of having control over the media...or the Congress...no...that is just Israel. I am confusing the two! :eyes: Or how about the lovely responses to Holocaust threads or attacks on Jewish properties? That is OK.

Think some are chasing off Christians? I think more are chasing off the Jews, because of course, we are more loyal to Israel than the US (or our native country, I mean...just look at all the Jew names on the PNAC contract (ignore all the Christian ones)).

I know, maybe if Iran follows through on their request "to wipe Israel off the map," we will get the 'progressives' back with their mea culpas!

Don't forget...Joe Lieberman grew a funny looking beard...it must be a ploy and not a sign of mourning as dictated through Jewish law.

The poster is Jewish, and she started raving about how this site is anti-Semitic. I disagreed with her until I started seeing the posts. I had just not seen them before. Frankly, she is right--there's a lot of anti-Semitism on this board, and it's disgusting.

I think that there is a lot of disdain for the Jewish out there. I've read it here, as well. It seems as though, for some, they'd prefer not to "hitch their wagons" to those who have any sort of faith at all. That is their right, but they are writing off vast numbers of the population in doing so.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

The right-wing Christians and corporations have also hijacked the government, as has the House of Saud. That is simply reality. However, those groups are specific. Mention AIPAC and watch 'them' come crawling out of the woodwork.

As you say, it should not reflect on American Jews, but you'd be a fool to think it didn't with many, including self-identified progressives and liberals.

I know it tends to happen every Sunday morning, but it is disturbing. I couldn't make it to church today with my pain being this bad, so I came here to check on what's happening. I've seen so many anti-Christian threads it's ridiculous.

God forbid any of us start attacking athiests or agnostics or anyone who questions serious faith of any kind. :eyes:

Okie Dokie.

I made a statement using the exact same amount of sincerity that the OP used in posing his "question".

I find it strange that you see sarcasm in my post, but cant see any in the "question".

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

May I suggest that you reread the title just a bit closer?

So I replied using the same tone and sincerity (or lack thereof)

Which of course brings us back to the beginnings of this subthread where someone asks - "Asking a question is intolerant?"

Any thinking person now has their answer.

I hear freepers ask that about Muslims. Why don't they stand up and say something if they're not all like that.

If it's not fair to ask of Muslims, it's not fair to ask it of Christians or any other religions. We're not our brother's keeper. And though we're not all like that, I'm not sure how you get the media to cover such things. They are biased too, I think.

I'm a Christian and I still take time to listen.

Unfortunately, most of what I'm listening to has "Christians" saying they will NOT lioten to Dems and then they give off their little shopping list of reasons as to why they are so much better than the rest of the universe that it's no longer worthwhile TO listen.

And, upon hearing those reasons, many of which are easily explained, they refuse to listen because their o'reilly school of thought is better. They do not want deliberation, they want it THEIR way with no talk.

And how do you tolerate the intolerant when they openly refuse to listen, never mind reason?

trust me when I say, that ridicule is NOT an effective way to influence someone positively.

But what the hell. Its only the presidency, congress, senate, Supreme Court and every other elected position at stake.

I, for the most part will not comment on these threads as I find what some people say highly offensive. Why is there so much anti-Bible, anti-Jesus commenting?

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

a bunch of greedy, selfish, resentful, hateful, vengeful, bigotted, craven monsters, catering to our worst instincts and pretending we're the good guys.

Jesus 'picked up the tab' so to speak, so we can think and behave any way we want and simply say 'paid in advance' to St Peter at the gates. He died for our sins, Pete, so step aside, we've got reservations.

At least, that's how a large part of America seems to formulate the Christian myth in their minds.

At least that's what I gathered from the time I spent listening to Christian hate radio. Supposedly, you have no power to bring about your own salvation through your own actions. Only Jesus can bring about your salvation through your acceptance of him as your personal savior. Since we're all sinners, and we all fall short in the eyes of the Lord, it therefore follows that all sin is the same in his eyes, and that the good person who commits a minor transgression every once in a while is exactly the same as Hitler in the eyes of the Lord and just as subject to hell (unless of course it's true that Hitler actually was a Christian, in which case his sins will be forgiven and yours won't).

What it basically means is that what you do and how you behave doesn't matter, only what you believe. And apparently what you believe does not necessarily have to be reflected in how you behave.

Of course, it doesn't say anything like that in the Bible from what I can recall. Didn't Jesus say that people will go to Heaven or Hell based on how they treated "the least of these" and whether they fed the hungry, clothed the naked and so on? Didn't he also say that those who loudly cry "Lord, Lord" (ie: professed belief) but didn't follow the teachings won't get to Heaven because of it?

I find it very interesting to what degree "conservative" Christianity actually rejects the teachings of Jesus. A fine way to treat the one you regard as your savior.

Jesus supposedly died for everyone's redemption. But that is only one of many promises made in the Bible.

Jesus said that any of his ministers could duplicate and surpass his many miracles. Therefore the television evangelist types are supposed to be able to heal the sick, raise the dead, take a basket of food and feed thousands of people, walk on water, make fish cough up gold, calm stormy seas (would have been quite helpful in Florida and Louisiana!), predict news events, and to do a myriad of other miracles. It makes you wonder: if Jesus died for sins, why is it that all other promises turned out to be bunk???

Where in the Bible is it written that only one promise is supposed to be fulfilled and all others to be nothing but lies?

Sorry, responded in the wrong place!

Why is it that some people think thata Christian objecting to the content of thread are claiming persecution? I am offended, but I am more embarassed to be A DEMOCRAT when I see this stuff then I am offended as I am as an evangelical.

I am not attacking anyone for their belief in no God. I am not evangelizing. I am not going around telling people that they are reprobates. I specifically will state again that I do not believe calling people who believe in God stupid is persecution.

It is just asinine and juvenile.

I think the speech of some on here...free though it may be is vulgar, bigoted arrogant and void of meaningful content. But its their right to say. I simply wish they wouldn't...not because it offends me but because it offends any number of Christians who have become utterly disenchanted with W and are looking for reasons to join the Democratic Party

The GOP has been exceedingly successful in making hay around the notion that Democrats are bereft of a moral center and have an intense dislike for religious people. The unmitigated venom of some people on this site is great fodder to wards their end.

So if they think Christians are stupid that's their fundamental right, but every time they open their mouth or launch their invective, they reinforce the GOP and drive votes away from this party.

The fact that some would rather despise Christians and goose=step them out of the Democratic Party then win election is what is short-sighted, narrow-minded, and asinine.

they are almost always vanity posts, which should be in the Lounge, or religious inquiries, which should be in Religion and Theology. Or, given that they are so very divisive, maybe a new forum, like Israeli/Palestinian and 9/11, should be created for religious wars.

First there is a strain of thought running through GD that is both anti-thieist and pretty brutal and insensitive. And while it could be ignored...it does not make it right and I think on occasion some of the bashing needs to be responsed to....Not so much in religious terms but in both theological and Democratic terms.

If folks want to bluster about the evils of faith or the benefits of athiesm, I have no desire to stop them on a free speech basis...but they should expect a response in return. They seem intent for some reason to post in the GD rather then on the faith and religon page.

I join many non-religious threads and offer my two cents with no religious motivation. But my worldview is colored by my faith.

But there are some folks on this site who start threads solely to poke fun at Christians or explain how evil or stupid we all are. Personally I think it would be more valuable to post it on Free Republic since that is where most of the pople they despise hang out....but for whatever reason they want to hang out here.

I think it is a disservice to the democratic mantra of tolerance and diversity...they have a right to say but I alos have a right to respond.

and people can get offended and be offensive easily.

I should know better than to part take.

I always think that I may learn something, and never think I will teach anyone anything, as this topic is a matter of deep personal conviction.

It is, also, divisive.

There is a religion section on DU, maybe that is the best place to discuss these topics.

peace

First there is a strain of thought running through GD that is both anti-thieist and pretty brutal and insensitive. And while it could be ignored...it does not make it right and I think on occasion some of the bashing needs to be responsed to....Not so much in religious terms but in both theological and Democratic terms.

If folks want to bluster about the evils of faith or the benefits of athiesm, I have no desire to stop them on a free speech basis...but they should expect a response in return. They seem intent for some reason to post in the GD rather then on the faith and religon page.

I join many non-religious threads and offer my two cents with no religious motivation. But my worldview is colored by my faith.

But there are some folks on this site who start threads solely to poke fun at Christians or explain how evil or stupid we all are. Personally I think it would be more valuable to post it on Free Republic since that is where most of the pople they despise hang out....but for whatever reason they want to hang out here.

I think it is a disservice to the democratic mantra of tolerance and diversity...they have a right to say but I alos have a right to respond.

I really think that the so-called "Christian" vote is up for grabs. There are ways to talk with evangelicals and all to help explain why they should vote Dem, and I personally know many Christians who do. If they ever came here, though, I'm afraid they'd leave and head straight back to the ones who know how to better craft their message.

God, a perfect being, created humans that are imperfect. God sends the imperfect humans he created imperfectly to hell for being so imperfect but later he decided to fix the problem by sending his only son to die at the hands of imperfect humans so other imperfect humans can go to heaven despite the imperfections He created them with.

Hope this straightens it all out for you.

I'm not sure if your post was serious, but I wanted to take the time to explain my Christian beliefs, and how they are very different from what you posted.

Here is what I believe:

It's not that humans were created "imperfect." It's that God created humans with free will. If God wanted to, He could have created the human race in such a way that we had no ability to disobey God -- no ability to sin.

However, then all God would have done is to create automatons -- machines made of flesh that only did as they were programmed to do and had no ability to CHOOSE to love God. Surrounded by such machines, God would still be alone, and would not truly be loved.

This is why God, in His infinite wisdom, created mankind to have free will. Each of us has a choice to sin or not to sin.

Unfortunately, each of us has inherited from Adam a propensity to sin. This is what is referred to as "original sin." So we all sin, disobeying God's simple rules.

As sinners, we cannot "earn" our way into Heaven. The wages of sin is death. God cannot pollute his perfect Home with sinfulness. So, we must be "cleaned" before we can be admitted into Heaven.

So God became man in the form of Jesus, who lived a life entirely without sin, then laid down his life to pay for our sins. It is the greatest gift that has ever been given, and it was given freely, without being earned. Yet, it still takes an act of FREE WILL to ACCEPT the gift. If it automatically covered the sins of everyone, then there would be no act of free will by which humans choose to be with God. Speaking for myself, I have chosen to accept Christ as my Lord and Savior. As a result, his terrible suffering and death on the cross have paid for my sins.

This frees me, not to engage in a sinful life, but to give back to God of my own free will, out of gratitude and joy! I do not do good works in an attempt to "earn" my place in Heaven. How arrogant I would be to think that I could cover my own sins with my meager attempts. No matter how many good works I do in this life, I can never change the fact that I have sinned against God. No, my good works are done out of gratitude to God for what He did for me.

According to my beliefs, anyone can receive this wonderful gift, by confessing Jesus as their Savior, and letting Him into their heart to rule as their Lord.

Many people seem to have misconceptions about all of this. Many people somehow think that Christians believe they are "holier than thou." Nothing could be further from the truth. I am not holier than you. I am in fact not holier than Jeffrey Dahmer. I am a sinner, just as he was. It is just that my sins are covered -- paid for -- by the blood of the Lamb of God.

I hope that helps to explain the views of traditional Christians. Others certainly have different beliefs, and they are welcome to their beliefs. I just wanted to correct what I saw in your post as a misstatement of what Christians believe.

Have a wonderful day, and may the blessings of God be upon you!

:toast:

Why should an allegedly omnipotent and omniscient diety care a rap whether he is "chosen" by creatures of his own device?

I don't claim to speak for God, but I would guess that it is simply this:

Everybody wants to be loved.

And perhaps appropriate if one views diety as being simply a human writ large, complete with all the passions and perturbations flesh is heir to....

I prefer to view it the opposite way. The desire to be loved is a God-like quality. Mankind was created in the image of God. Therefore, we also desire to be loved.

It seems rather a needy trait, at least when carried to the degree of creating a cosmos and creatures specifically to fulfill it. The whole note struck by that seems very false to me: what could an entity characterized by omnipotence and omniscience possibly desire? Desire by its nature points to lack, and so can be a feature only of limited entities....

I view it as a wonderful and awesome trait. God loves mankind and wants us to love Him back. That's not needy; that's cool, if you ask me.

Also, since God created mankind with the desire to love and be loved, and that is God's very nature, it works out pretty well for both God and man. Unless man rejects God. Then it doesn't work out as well.

I guess different people view this in different ways. Anyway, I appreciate your point of view and thank you for taking the time to respond.

Have a great day!

Welcome to the forum, by the way!

The pleasure is all mine.

They controlled the sacrifices and the rituals for the Jewish religion. Jesus was of a new convenant between man and God that was more individualistic and that was a threat to the high priests' power.

They had him offed.

except the way to treat dissenters and threats to power is to smear them into obscurity instead of actually killing them. Well....



Paul Wellstone?
:scared:

He died for the same reason that revolutionaries usually die.

If you aren't a Christian, I suppose you don't feel his death was worth it so much.

But for a Christian, it's not so much the death but the resurrection. Jesus put his ass on the line as the ultimate sacrifice for regular people and the ultimate example of love from God. And he lived. Because as everyone knows, love conquers all. And the idea of a God caring enough to get down with the people,die, and go to hell, and to then show up like "I'm alive, now what, bitches?" I guess that means something. (Um, I'm not sure why I'd put it quite that way. :blush: )

I heard flipping round the channels from some tv guy that everything you are struggling with, you have already conquered it through Jesus. Jesus has already conquered it for you on the cross, and that you are free. You just have to accept that, give thanks and do unto others, that whole deal, according to that guy. Which is totally bewitching, don't know if I personally would go that far. But that is an example of what someone thinks Jesus' death/resurrection is worth.

Basically we're supposed to love each other as we love ourselves, that whole beautitude thing... tell others the good news of Jesus, all that. Republicans seem to lean heavily on the proselytizing, not so much on the loving each other/feeding the poor/etc.

and since I talk a lot, that's saying a lot!

It's a requirement. The god-man must always die in order to save mankind.

Goes back to Osiris who died and was resurrected as Horus. Even the myth of the buddha has this same typical god-man death to achieve resurrection and everlasting life.

The dying god-man is fairly universal in mythology.

Nothing particularly new to the Christian myth, and the alleged words of Jesus are pretty Buddhist in nature.

Sacrifice to redeem sins, avatars, the whole bit. And miracles. People love miracles, so you give them miracles.

What, you expected God to use something less compelling, less universal?

:shrug:

in the Religion and Theology forum?

And I answer your question with utmost respect.

And I have posted in that forum before too.

Also, Jesus did try to save the world. Did He stay in one little corner? Nope. He felt his cause was worthy of being stated where everybody congregates.

Through his death he taught us forgiveness. Christ's forgivenss allows us to put our transgressions behind us and go forward with a clear conscious.

To save the world from its bondage to sin, and to renew man into God's likeness, and grace which humanity had lost after the fall of Adam and Eve.

And too many people who claim to believe in him don't love me either either and have found ways to prove their points.

He died because he was discomfitting the Religious Right and the
ruling political elite (Romans and Hebrew collaborators) with
all his rabble-rousing.

Tesha

Concepts everybody seems to spit on these days.

To teach us that we are more than just physical bodies, that death is not the end, and that fearing death will keep us from living the lives God intended us to live, serving Him and mankind.

I also believe there was a political side to his actions, to teach non-violent resistance to an occupied people. Also, He had to expose the lies and corruption of the Pharisees to the honest men among the group (like Joseph of Arimithea and Nicodemus) and to the public at large.

I'm not into the whole "saving us from our sins" mentality.

1. Talking snake tempts Eve, the first woman, into eating a piece of fruit that God had forbidden her from eating. She listens to the talking snake instead of God and eats the fruit, then gives a piece to her husband. God gets pissed off when they start wearing clothing to cover their junk and casts them out of the Garden of Eden. Humanity lives under the cloud of this grave sin and must be redeemed.

2. Since God clearly can't let go of this millenia-old grudge without something to appease His blood-lust, He impregnates a virgin girl, Mary, who gives birth to His son, Jesus. Jesus talks real nice about loving your neighbor for a while, fucks up some money-changers at the temple and gets executed by the state for blasphemy. Jesus descends into limbo and then rises from the dead after three days of apparently not rotting in his tomb. He promises to return within the life-times of his followers. He then castigates the apostle Thomas for not believing that He had risen from the dead, since this shit happens all the time, and floats up to Heaven on a cloud, opening the gates of Heaven for the rest of us to follow behind Him if we'll just believe.

3. Almost 2000 years later, we've ridden out to the moon and are really confused as the where the giant portal that Jesus floated into went. We're all still waiting for Him to come back, but some atheists are starting to say, "dude, he's not gonna show" while Christians are still saying "he'll come! He wouldn't lie!" Everybody else is pretty sure that the Christians have gotten stood up, though.

it's impossible to answer your question in a way that everybody could accept it. many people think jesus is a myth, and others have thought he was a sort of superman, or someone with mind over matter spiritual powers etc. Fact is, the only solid link to 'Jesus' is the 'gospels' and the rest of new testament, and people have studied every single letter in the bible, for a thousand plus years. It's an immense record, probably the most massive written about subject matter the human race has: rightly so, as it is about God! To think that 'god' was born and lived as a human being (GOD! as in the old timer who created the female buttock, among other things!) and to think 'god' in the form of the man jesus actually left some idea of what this life thing is all about, well that is truly mind boggling!
Nevertheless, it is true, insofar as certain individuals are concerned. There are several 'leaps of faith' involved in this 1) that matter came to exist, from something (creation or unknowable magick?) 2) that out of matter, life somehow developed 3) and out of life senses developed until 4) 'intelligence' also came to exist, the ability to remember, to deduce, to know, reason argue and to lie etc 5) out of the intelligence came awareness of ourself, me, you i we etc, the personal in relation to this 'god'
You can spend your whole life studying all this, and earn a living doing it, cuz as thomas acquinas once said, when asked why there was theology, that the details are too much for ordinary people to understand therefore theologians did it for them. jesus lived 2k years ago about, his disciples put together his teachings and everything we know sort of evolved, but with the proviso that the 'holy spirit' kept the record ontrack! It's probable that most people who call themselves 'christians' probably aren't anything of the sort, being nasty little humans who watch too much tv etc, but fortunately it's 'god' who decides all this, who sorts it out. Jesus died to make you aware that life isn't just a whole buncha meals, drinks, car rides and things to do, but also preparation for 'eternity' - by dying the way he did (as a common criminal, at the behest of his owwn people, in the jaws of 'grim historical reality') Jesus 'freed' people from the specter of death, whatever that is,anyway, the idea is that people with generous spirits and moral codes that strengthen the weak and clothed the naked and feed the hungry etc (that's how jesus talked) could, if they wanted, see that fluid, dynamic life, lived to the fullest, and shared freely would go on 'forever' meaning we were welcomed by 'god' our creator...So, to some extent, life wasn't just a 'great game'.... if the human race is the only 'godlike' one created, in all the universe, and if 'god' invested everything in this humanity, then the apocalypse, or the death of the planet, humanity, life, means 'god' dies too (which is impossible, of course)

Jesus was nailed to a piece of wood 2,000 years ago for saying how great it would be if we were all nice to each other for a change.