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What it's like to believe in Santa.

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lildreamer316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 12:10 AM
Original message
What it's like to believe in Santa.
Edited on Wed Nov-16-05 12:15 AM by lildreamer316
I wanted to post this separately so that some people would see it.
I read this excellent rant here http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/11/15/12016/649
as posted by Bush in Berkley on this thread here http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5370671
At first I had some serious issues with the OP's title. He spent 3/4 of the article NOT describing what it is like to actually BELIEVE what an atheist believes, but what it is like to NOT believe what almost everyone else seems to believe. He is SO right about how hard it is for ANYONE who does not believe in a certain dominant religion to deal with said religion being forced into our daily lives. It is an issue I have often really wanted to rant for days about. But he does not talk about at length what it means to him to NOT believe in a higher power/"God"; or as he defines it.
THEN,he qualified all of this by saying he would continue in tomorrow's article to explain why he believed what he believes, or does not believe at all; however you want to phrase it. So, I'm going to wait and see what he has to say. I do find this to be going in a direction I am not entirely comfortable agreeing with; though--why? Because myths are not the problem here. Crowd control is. Myths and fables are actually pretty good for society. More later...
Here is where I get in my personal quagmire in regards to atheism. I think it is a great rational way of thinking, and one of the best ways of seeing the world for what it really is. That being said, it is inconceivable to me that one cannot believe that there is more to life than meets the eye and still not have a rational view of the world. Basically, my entire belief system is summed up in two principals.
1)Energy is neither created or destroyed.It merely changes from one form to another.
2)For every action there is an opposite and equal reaction.
Hello.
There have never been two more potently SPIRITUAL sentences ever written.
HELLO.
WHy is it so impossible for an Atheist to understand that you can believe that all things ARE possible? Science has never been able to prove that all things are NOT possible.Multiple dimensions? No one can say for sure they DON'T exist,and in theory they should be able to.There seems to consistently be an exception to every rule.Science has proved that humans have/are made up of electrical energy. This is the same question that I have for the ID crowd. Why is it so impossible to believe that your "GOD" created EVOLUTION??? (I know why you refuse to believe that....then you don't have the power of crowd control or the money flow!) Who are you (talking to the ID's) to presume to believe YOU can know the extent of "GOD"'s mind?Is that not going against your very own teachings?Aarg.
I do want to restate that I SO understand and agree with the OP's annoyance that these people seem to believe in something that is so patently,at least to others like us, ridiculous and full of holes. It makes no sense---but there ARE ways of believing in a spiritual side of life that DO make much more sense, rationally and otherwise.
As humans, we have taken our penchant for fables and moral fairy tales to stupid and mind-altering extremes, much like anything else.My last favorite rule:
Everything in moderation.
VERY IMPORTANT POINT in regards to DarkSyde's opinions about some of these beliefs:
These fables and moral stories were made up to convey the basic messages of humankind: how to live together in relative harmony; and how to treat the earth that we live on. Belief in them was supposed to, in the beginning, help social structure and daily life. "A PERSON is intelligent. PEOPLE are stupid".--Men in Black.Look past the tales into WHY they exist. I don't find that stupid--just sadly taken too far. (See above)
For example:I like identifying myself with the pagan and wiccan traditions, mainly because it connects me with nature in a way I find fun to do. I understand the concepts of the Great Mother and the Great Father. Honestly, though, I don't really need all the trappings of the altar and the need-fire and the myths and the really cool robes to commune with the spiritual side of my life. I just enjoy them, and I use them as tools to remind myself where I want to direct my ENERGY next--my work, my relationship, etc.I am engaging my mind to help me--otherwise it gets bored. It IS animalistic; after all.
"For all the Gods are one God;and all the Goddesses are one Goddess, and there is only one Initiator. And to every man his own truth, and the God within"--Marion Zimmer Bradley,from the Mists of Avalon
I read Initiator here as the whole---as in all of everything.
Sure; my beliefs are comforting--but they also don't completely fit into DarkSyde's definition of the "insane Santa believers" religion. Richard Bach has a great section on finding a "hole-proof" understanding of the IS in Running from Safety.
Not trying to turn this into a spiritual diatribe; so I will wrap up. I had a sentence here stating what I thought Atheists believe; and then I realized I should do a little research.
So, I will save my further opinions until the conclusion of DarkSyde's article. For your reference; the definition(s) of Atheism:
http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/sn-definitions.html

--Signed, someone who really enjoys myths and fables..and searches for the truth hidden in them. Suspending disbelief is sometimes the only way to find what you are looking for. Santa is so much fun....what a loving man.
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-18-05 08:39 AM
Response to Original message
1. I think you misunderstood his essay.
I don't see him saying that old myths and fables have no value at all, only that people who believe them to be literally true make life very difficult for those of us who don't.

Certainly these things provide us a glimpse into the workings of many things, including human society, morals, fears, hopes, and dreams, and they have significant value in that context. But they certainly hold no meaning on their own, apart from the human experience.

One thing you wrote:
Science has never been able to prove that all things are NOT possible. Multiple dimensions? No one can say for sure they DON'T exist,and in theory they should be able to.

Well, no, science will never be able to prove that something doesn't exist, because that's proving a logical negative, and it can't be done. For a good example of this, see Carl Sagan's "Dragon in my Garage."

You can't justify belief in anything you choose just because someone can't prove you wrong. Science works by collecting evidence FOR things. Old theories are overturned when new data is deemed evidence FOR something else. If the "intelligent design" crowd wishes to get rid of evolution, they should show how their "theory" explains the data better than evolution does. They can't, so they won't.
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