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Does this explain the "Christians are persecuted" phenomenon?

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Sapphocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 03:35 PM
Original message
Does this explain the "Christians are persecuted" phenomenon?
Think "War on Christmas." Think frivolous lawsuits on the grounds that Christian students are being discriminated against. Think "LGBTs = threat to the 'sanctity of marriage.'"

I continue to be baffled by the cry of "persecution" from a group that claims 80% of all Americans as members.

The following excerpt offers a reason for this self-imposed victimhood. I know what I think, but I'd be interested in hearing what Christians think of it:
The teachings of Christ place us in a difficult position. We are told to fast, pray, and aid the poor secretly, and to hush up healings. We should do these things (fast, pray, help the poor, and heal) but we shouldn't say anything about it. These actions prove our love for God and others, but they are not our message. They are what Christians do... but they are to be done more or less secretly.

<snip>

However, there is one thing that we are allowed to brag about. After having obeyed Jesus by telling people to obey him, he says we can boast about being persecuted! "...when people revile you and persecute you and say all manner of evil against you falsely for my sake, rejoice and be exceeding glad, for great is your reward in heaven... You are the salt of the earth... You are the light of the world... Let your light shine before people so they may see your good works and glorify your Father who is in heaven." (Matthew 6:11-16)

But Jesus told us to keep our good works secret. How can people see them without glorifying us?

We do it by letting them see us being persecuted!

<snip>

The more good we do secretly, the more persecution we are going to get, (John 15:18-21) as the prince of this world (Satan) senses our commitment to God and love. If our actions communicate love and an absence of fear, persecution is a natural by-product. And if we are not ashamed to take up our cross and follow Christ, we can, through our persecution, bring glory to our heavenly Father as Christ did, and not be guilty of robbing glory for ourselves.
Link:
http://www.accsoft.com.au/~xians/teach/cults-persecution/A_Martyr_Complex.html

Also worth reading:
...Christ did tell us we’d be persecuted if we follow Him. But what He meant to bolster believers facing trials by keeping their eyes on Him (John 15:18 ff.), we like to take to boost our own egos. So we dwell on the injustices we’ve endured and the evils of our enemies. It makes us feel righteous, and we like that feeling. (It sure beats the feeling of repentance.)

Some of us may even experience a type of persecution envy. After all, from Christ and His Apostles to today’s Christians in places like Sudan, believers have faced prison and death for their faith. Compared to them, we do have it pretty soft. Not that we really want to suffer like the martyrs. Still, we’d like to feel we’re part of the same life-and-death struggle. It’d make us feel at least a little heroic.

The Apostle Paul has a word for this attitude: foolishness. ...
More:
http://www.boundless.org/regulars/kaufman/a0000915.html
What (Christian "victims") are objecting to, of course, is simply the fact that in the last 50 years or so those who do not believe as they do have begun to assert that they have a right not to be forced into following their rituals. Many of them still yearn for the day, and agitate politically for it to return, when they could take time out every single day in a school where attendance is mandatory and force children of all faiths or lack thereof to participate in their religious rituals. And they tell each other that because the courts will no longer give them that power over others, they are being persecuted. If you were to turn the tables and have their kids forced to pray five times a day toward Mecca, or perform a Hindu cleansing ritual, they would scream call that persecution, of course, but they can't think rationally enough to apply that same reasoning to those they seek to coerce.
More:
http://www.stcynic.com/blog/archives/2005/05/george_will_on_1.php

Thoughts?
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More Than A Feeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
1. I think the last one is the most accurate
Edited on Tue Dec-06-05 03:45 PM by Heaven and Earth
Always an uncomfortable experience to have your unquestioned supremacy challenged.

It's the same reason the wingers don't like affirmative action, aid to the poor, and feminism. All of them send the message that they don't have what they have by divine right, but because other people do not have.
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Sapphocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. I think so too.
What's ironic is that the first two excerpts were written by super-conservative Christians, and the third by a man I perceive to be an agnostic (I'm not sure where his personal beliefs lie; I do know he's a super-liberal, and blogs constantly about separation of church and state).

Divine right... Yes. Or, as I've often said, I guess some folks need somebody to stay on a lower rung of the ladder, so they feel "lifted up". Until the * Era, I never would have guessed the method would have morphed into the persecution complex. I'm much more accustomed to the smugness of "we're right, and the rest of you are going straight to hell" bleatings of the Radical Religious Right of the Reagan Era.

But I guess if one method doesn't work (i.e., 25 years later, a whole bunch of us still aren't scared by the RRR's fire and brimstone), the only logical move is to try a different tack.

As one who knows real, everyday, practical persecution, I was blindsided by the idea that anyone would choose the image of persecution as a means to greater power.

Seems to me there's a big ol' backfire just waiting to explode: If their faith is so strong, and their message so unassailable, they would have been controlling the entire planet by now. And someday, somebody they will listen to (IOW, not anybody like me) will get the point across to them that the real message they are sending is just how pathetically weak their faith appears filtered through their embarrassing little self-pity party.
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BOSSHOG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
2. "christians" in America do not know what persecution is.
"christian" leaders use those words to fire up the masses to fill up the collection plate during a second passing on Sunday. "christians" have no concept of constitutional liberty nor realize how lucky they are to live in this country even with us evil constitution loving liberals all about. It is amusing to see their ignorance cause them so much needless pain.

falwell, robertson, dobson and lesser known radical christian clerics in this country know as much about religious persecution as limbaugh, hannity and the rest of their ilk know about military service.
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Sapphocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. But do you think it's genuine pain?
I think it's more of a badge of honor. I'm reminded of a line from The Boys in the Band from a deeply self-loathing gay man (paraphrased): "There's nothing quite as good as feeling sorry for yourself, is there?"

If there's pain involved, the line between it and pleasure is blurred to the point of invisibility. Masochists enjoy their pain. And these particular masochists seem to get just as big a thrill out of spending two hours watching Jesus undergo the worst kind of pornographic torture on the big screen.

Hmm... now, there's a thought: No wonder Radical RW Christians are so anti-sex, pro-torture, and pro-persecution: That kind of "suffering" is their substitute for normal, healthy, life-affirming sex. I've heard that the spiritual "ecstasy" of, say, speaking in tongues or getting "slain in the spirit" isn't much different than that of a real, live orgasm.

Anyway... Maybe "poor, poor, pitiful me" is a natural outgrowth of the frustration of not getting what one wants -- and of impatience. (If I weren't so frightened by it, I would be amused by the RRR's apparent desire to speed up Armageddon.)

No, they have no idea how lucky they are to live here. A bumper sticker I designed recently reads: "Christians who think they're persecuted in the U.S. should try living in Saudi Arabia."
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nemo137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
3. I agree with St. Paul. Foolishness.
On a theological level, the current Christian focus on persecution is a bit of a blaspehmy. It's taking to focus off of God's love (feeding the hungry, healing the sick, clothing the poor) and putting it onto the idividual "sufferer," showcasing his supposed devotion to his God. It's the same thing that Christ speaks out against in Matthew, when he talks about those who pray and fast loudly, obviously, and publicly, so that they may be seen by men. "I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full." Those who practice love and compassion without looking for reward, or the truly persecuted (and, let's face it, there are no truly persecuted Christians in this country)get the assurance that "your Father, who is unseen...who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."

It's in Matthew 6, if you're looking to correct a fundie with his own Bible.
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Sapphocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. It's one of the few things upon which...
...I agree with St. Paul. ;)

Seriously, it does sound like blasphemy to my ear, too, albeit for a slightly different reason. My initial reaction to the first excerpt I posted is: "And here I thought Jesus was the one who went through all that pain and suffering, so his followers wouldn't have to."

Sadly, the first writer is quoting from Matthew 6 -- but I do see where s/he is carving out a particular (mis)interpretation of it. Or, rather, looking for a loophole; i.e., "But I want to show off all my good works! I want to be glorified! I want... Oh, wait, here's something I can use to justify my own glorification..."

I'll bet Matt. 5:14-15 is another favorite of the first writer -- just as ripe for misinterpretation out of context.
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nemo137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-07-05 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Man, if you gonna be "bright" enough of a light to be persecuted
you're not being quiet enough about your works.

Seriously, if the fruits of the Spirit are what drives you to works, and "there is no law against such things," why're you going to be persecuted for them.

You're not, but you're going to play like you are to get glory. Then, you waltz right into blasphemy territory.
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tocqueville Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
4. christian "persecution" is a tactic as old as "christianity"
the pauline christians were extremists living in an "apocalypse" world type wacko. They had no tolerance for other religions and of course became persecuted. There were those days jihadists.

when they seized power by promising immortality to the Emperor and justified his right of being such as a divine right, they started to persecute everybody who wasn't thinking like them. This lasted approximatively 1800 years until new thinking in Europe dismantled this power.

By moving over to newly discovered countries they conspired during 200 years to seize power. They recently succeeded in a former great democracy in the New World.

this is a subject of great concern, since they are now trying to convert in a new crusade around 100 millions of worshippers of a similar religion with the help of torture, burning with white phosphorus and irradiation with depleted uranium.
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Sapphocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. And that's where St. Paul and I begin to lock horns. :)
The only thing that astounds me is how long the Dark Ages lasted. I know the old quote about democracy being unable to survive more than a couple of centuries is attributed to A.F. Tyler, but I believe de Tocqueville was just as surprised by any nation that managed to exist that long. Maybe crazed conservatism has a longer shelf life than enlightened liberalism.

Yep, burning at the stake has only evolved into white phosphorus... which I suppose proves the old adage, "Times change -- people don't."

And my other favorite: "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

See you around the year 3805. (imagine sad-smile icon here)
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dbonds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 06:19 PM
Response to Original message
9. Christianity was designed to bring comfort to the persecuted.
So to give the religion meaning in todays world, they have to keep the followers believing they are persecuted.

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Inland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-07-05 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
11. Don't forget the appeal of the theme of persecution in politics.
There's a huge strain of justification by victimization. It started with groups that had legitimate complaints of historical discrimination and but also gets hijacked by everyone who wants to assert, well, just about anything.

Persecution as a literary theme. Persecution as a means of unifying and mobilizing groups against other groups.

But not everyone who posts a picture of the blacks at the lunch counter and tries to draw a paralell between their strugggle and the civil rights struggle is justified in doing so.

It's only after looking at the FACTS that one is able to determine whether or not the claim has a basis. I agree with the Kaufman paragraph quoted: what is argued to be persecution is merely the loss of a power to persecute or dominate or have government institutions pay homage to their religion, or their traditions, as the default position.

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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
12. The prospect of genuine Christianity is terrifies almost everyone, and ..
.. it is much easier to transform that primal fear into self-justification than to transcend it.
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