My Christian Beliefs

I have been at DU since 2003 and as a Christian (note the capital C) and I do not take offense at many of the comments that are posted on DU.

I feel that it is important to understand what it means to be a Christian, at least from my Lutheran point of view. Having been to seminary during the Viet Nam war I find that many of my of my beliefs are colored by that conflict.

1)I believe that Baptism is a sacrament. In Baptism a covenant is made between man and “God” in which we Christians agree to daily “drown” ourselves. In other words to daily examine ourselves, our motives, our beliefs, our perspective on the world. In a more philosophical language, we examine our presuppositions about ourselves and the world in which we live. If you want to know more please read Kierkegaard's “Concept of Irony”. This is non-negotiable item of my faith.

2) I believe that we are all in this together. In the Sacrament of Communion we participate in a community; we are all one. As Luther stated in his works; just as the grapes are crushed and made into one wine; and the wheat is crushed and made into
one loaf of bread; so also we are all crushed and made into one people. This is also non-negotiable.

3)I suppose that I should include the fact that I believe in God; although I do not know what the word “God” means. By definition I do not know what the word “God” means or who/what/he/she/it is . All I know is that I don't understand his/her/its nature or motives. I beleive in Christ because of items 1 and 2 above; they are true irregardless of whether or not you are a "Christian".

4)As an aside, I personally think that the war on Christmas is a fraud. The questions that Christ will ask at our judgment will be a) I was hungry; did you feed me? b) I was sick; did you heal me? c) I was thirsty; did you give me a drink? d) I was in prison did you visit me?

I am posting this because I feel it is important to understand what I believe & why I am a Christian.

This might have been better posted down in the Religion and Theology forum, though. It's pretty active down there, and you'd get some good discussion.

because of the "war on the Holidays" e.g. Christmas

but I'm sure it'll get moved eventually.

...I was 'dunked' when I was 6 weeks old, so I really wasn't 'asked' to do anything but try not to cry. C of E doesn't go in for communion, so I can't speak to that.

Other than that, I'm a atheistic leaning agnostic.

I do however agree with #4.

We do Communion every week..first communion at about 6. I'm Episcopalian.

..specifically. But it may be what we used to call 'High Church', I know Anglican was also in that category. They were like small offshoots of CofE, considered closer to Catholisism.

Regular CofE has none of the trappings of the old Catholic faith (thanks to Henry VIII.)

I do know that my cousin was baptised at an Anglican church in London and they had gold robes and swinging incense burners etc - I was about 8 and had never seen this before, it was nothing like the churches or Sunday Schools I'd been to.

Regular old CofE - no incense, no communion (confirmation), white cassock, vicar (poor as a church mouse). Sunday service: a couple of rousing hymns, vicar reads a parable or something similar (very quietly), drop a coin in the plate and then off to the pub.

The closest I've found to it in the USA is Unitarian, but not really.

Episcopalian is an offshoot of Church of England and can range from the low you described (they still do Communion once a month) to "smells and bells."

Unitarian, as I understand it, is kind of a blending of many faiths.

What you are describing sounds like some of the "Reformed" denominations.

The pub? Now THAT I can identify with.

I enjoyed that, expecially your humility related to what God is. None of us know, and people who stand up claiming to speak for him our frauds...With too much focus on the people stealing Christmas or whatever, people forget that religion is about relating to something we don't understand, and that takes humility not condemnation.

I can't complete the questionnaire as written:

We practice the sacrament of (usually infant but also for adults who have never been baptized in any Christian tradition) Baptism as the promise of the parents (and/or other sponsors) to raise the child in the church and the promise of the congregation to love, welcome, and support that child as a member of the group.

We also practice the sacrament of Communion, but as commemoration and not transubstantiation: the wine (and/or grape juice) does not become Jesus' blood, and the bread (actual bread from a loaf, not wafers made specially for the occasion) does not become Jesus' flesh. I personally feel that a coffee hour or brunch after services better represents the New Testament meaning of the sacrament than the ceremony that has evolved. (And in the United Church of Christ, members have the right to their own opinions and consciences.)

God isn't a measurable entity; God just is. Jesus is "divine," by which I mean he is more than just an exemplar; he's God's way of still speaking to us across generations and millennia and telling us how to live.

The war on Christmas is waged by consumerism and kitsch. The manger scene is a set piece on the virtue of humility that by definition cannot be used to bully and brag and intimidate. A tree surrounded by toys is a bizarre representation of a holy newborn whose crib was a trough used to feed animals in a barn. A better celebration of Christmas than the retail extravaganza would be visiting every child born in the past year, welcoming each one into the human family, and making sure every one of them is warm and loved and well nourished.

When I was a kid, there was a 8 inch scale manger scene complete with sheep, herd dogs, magi, shepherds, cows, Mary, Joseph, the hay manger and Jesus. Lots of animals and people to crowd into the barn.

This was placed under the tree where it was surrounded by huge piles of presents. We had a large family so therefore there were tons of presents. I'd play with the manger set as if the figurines were action figures.

got a child's nativity scene from my sister for Christmas. It is wood and I guess indestructible. He likes to line them up in a row and count them. He gets to five and then starts over. He also puts them in his big fire engine. He says the three kings are "the bad guys."

If it look like wine & smells like wine....

I tend to look at transubstantiation a little different than most i think. In the same way that in baptism you continually die to the self and are raised anew; so also in communion you die with christ (e.g. die with respect to the "self") and are raised again. This is more that just a symbolic death and resurrection; it is real.

That isn't my understanding of Baptism or Communion. It's funny, because I think of the UCC as a very individualistic denomination in that we have freedom (i.e., responsibility) of conscience and are supposed to study Scripture, pray, and then think for ourselves, but it's almost Amish in its congregational community emphases of welcoming in Baptism and sharing in Communion in contrast to how you see it.

And the congregation in which I was confirmed always had Welches' (old-fashioned purple) grape juice quarterly; my current congregation has a choice of red wine or white grape juice monthly. I would rather have grape juice, but white grape juice is, well, like plasma! Both I and my formerly Methodist husband think monthly Communion is way too often, verging on worship based on Sacrament rather than worship based on Word.

I was raised with a Liberal Christian philosophy m/l as you describe.

It's sad how when one thinks of Christianity these days - one thinks intolerance and ignorance. It wouldn't have to be so.

I'm not sure what question you are asking with the poll, so I chose "other."

I can say that I'm in general agreement with your definition of what it means to be a Christian, as a non-christian who has read the bible and attended services in many different denominations.

I can say that I disagree with the vocal majority, if they are a majority, claiming ownership of Christianity today. That I wish they'd "see the light" and "be" the Christ they say they follow.

I can say that I believe the real Christians are those that, each day, strive to "be" that Christ. Perhaps that correlates with your "drowning?"

I was not baptised until I was 12 years old.

My dad was an Elder in a huge Presbyterian church that he and my mom forced me to attend. I did Sunday school as a child. Sang in the youth choir. Active in the youth group as well as Young Life. Went on every retreat, attended Bible study classes, read the Bible daily, prayed several times a day and went to a college that is a Methodist Seminary.

I was not baptised voluntarily, nor did I resist. I had been attending some kind of intense church indoctrination classes after school with a handful of other kids and a creepy youth pastor. After graduation or whatever, my dad simply informed me that I would now be baptised.

It was an elegant ceremony in a small chapel attended by my parent's friends and presided over by my dad's best friend and our family's spiritual advisor, Bill. I got a new suit and had to memorise a bunch of stuff to say. There was a rehersal and I was relieved that it was only going to take a half an hour.

The actual event was unmemorable. Bunch of mumbo jumbo, a couple drops of water and they did my kid sister (age 5) at the same time. Apparently she did not require 12 years of indoctrination or need to have a "speaking" role in the little skit we performed for our select audience. When we got home I went outside to play, happy the whole thing was over.

Nine years later I became agnostic and started practicing Zen Buddism.

I have been non Christian for 24 years despite my folks best efforts to MAKE me a Christian.

I am posting this because I feel it is important to tell you that I appreciate your beliefs and enjoyed reading your post.

Peace be with you. :hug:

I find that much of what I believe haas been influenced by Zen and Kierkegaard. If you ever have a chance please read Kierkegaards "Concept of Irony". It is very Zen like in it's approach but for the fact that it references Socrates not Zen.

As far as your presbyterian history, I sympathize. For a number of years I also went to a presbyterian church; then I became a christian. John Calvin was a miserable failure at just about everything he did; including his poor attempts at reforming the catholic church. Presbyterianism, and john calvin specifically do not have the theological underpinnings for the beliefs that I have outlined. It is no small wonder that Luther thought Calvin was a heritic.

For all the time I spent in Church I never really learned what made Presbyterianism different from other brands of Christianity.

Oddly, my dad was a firm believer in the idea that everything was "predetermined" and known to God. I really never could accept this and I think it is no longer a tenent of Presbyterianism.

Now that I wonder about it, I think dad chose to be a Presbyterian (he was raised Lutheran) because it was the WASP-iest sect he could find.

He would be proud of me for saying that, I am sure.

Zwingli said Luther was a cannibal!

us out. :hi:

We've got somebody from our congregation down there right now. We (the congregation) footed the $150 for the bus trip, and he bought all the equipment (there was a list, but all I remember is dust masks) himself.

done it. And my church keeps an outreach there 24/7. And one in Biloxi.

As long as I'm not being harassed or judged by them.

Just live a decent and ethical life. Communion is a bit cannibalistic--consuming the body and blood of the christ. I kind of buy the ceremonial symbolism of baptismal cleansing, but doing it to a baby seems slightly less than useless.

Of course all this stuff presupposes the existence of god which is--any way you look at it--a leap into fantasyland.

Yeah, we've got the x-mas tree up, but that's for my liberal Cathiolic (I know, I know--oxymoron!) mother. My dad and I couldn't care less.

1) I don't believe in Baptism, as I think humans always will be children of a "god" no matter what. Baptism to me is just a show.

2) Yes, I believe we're all in it together, but again, I don't see a particular need to affirm this through Communion or whatever.

3) I believe in a natural force, and that is that. I do not like to call it "God," since to me, using "God" is just attempting to anthropomorphize something that is a force, and is not human, not male, not female. It just is, and that is that.

4) I think the "War on Christmas" is a ridiculous time-diverter from the *much* more pressing issues at hand in our country. Christmas itself is nothing unique or special to Christianity; like all other organized religions, Christianity draws on its predecessors, giving old ideas a new twist. You might as well celebrate the Winter Solstice, which is, in reality, what you are doing, considering Jesus of Nazareth was most definitely not born in December, even, much less December 25th.

I don't mean to sound rude or anything, mind you. That's just what I believe, and I respect your own beliefs just fine, so long as they are kept out of my life.

:D :D

But I'm really an atheist.
Though I try to live an ethical life.
Added on edit:

And when asked to say 'grace' at a meal I raise my glass and say, "It's good to share food with friends."

However, I feel the same way about religion as I do about sexual practices. I don't care if you fuck goats, as long as they consent, no one gets hurt and you don't try to make me do it.

Edited to add that I was confirmed as a Lutheren, for what it's worth.

For me being a Christian is a spiritual journey into liberalism, and political anarchy. As a Roman Catholic-- I am upset that Christ is no longer the center of the faith of the Holy See, and they have out of fear sold out the principles and values of Christ to the values of Pontius Pilate, and the Romans (now called Republicans)

Jesus being a liberal--I am looking forward to the day that he kicks--the warmonger Repukes out of his temple, the Church.

In fact-- the above will be my prayer to Christ--in this dark age of War and Repukism.