Jesus birthdate not known. Almost certainly not Dec.25.

This date was chosen because it was supposedly Mithra's birthday. The Christians chose to utilize many dates of their various "holidays" on prior religions' dates as a convenience.

a bit petty....that maybe, just maybe, the important thing about Christianity are the teachings of Jesus and not the date of His birth.

I like it. Has that sorta Greek Mythology feel to it. I can just see the T-Shirts and school backpack logos now...

Did you just discover this news flash? I mean, really? Sorry if I sound sarcastic, but this is hardly an unknown piece of information to most people.

And do you really think that most Christians believe Jesus was born on December 25? Or that they care? Or that if they know, or knew, they're not going to want to celebrate Christmas anymore because they are so devastated and disillusioned?

I don't know about anyone else, but I think I've known since I was a kid that the date and most of the trappings of Christmas are borrowed from other traditions and have been adapted to take on Christian symbolic meanings. And that the borrowing was designed to help "sell" Christianity to people who were unlikely to convert unless they were still permitted to keep some of their old holidays and traditions while doing so.

None of that has disillusioned me or made me no longer want to celebrate the holiday. Why should it? Why does any of it matter? If you want to celebrate Christmas, you celebrate Christmas. Unless you're some kind of fundie nut, you're not going to be devastated and disillusioned by the "news" that all those things you thought were so "traditional" about the holiday actually have pagan or other origins.

Christmas is a very emotionally satisfying holiday. It really doesn't matter who that damn baby is. He's born, he's cute, and he's going to save our butts. Call him Jesus or Horus or Mithra, I don't care. The child born in the dead of winter (nine months from Easter and the temptation in the Garden of Gethsemane, but we won't go there) the child who brings the light, is the hope we have with every baby born, that's why it gets us in the gut.

I also like presents, cookies, and colored lights. So I'm fine with it.

Shephards aren't in the fields in December.

Yes as I remember, Mithra is just one of many examples of the same mythical person. Off the top of my head I can think of Jesus, Mithra, Krishna and Horus as all having pretty much exactly the same story.

The origins of December 25th in religious dogma as I remember it is this: After the summer solstice occurs and the position of the Sun's arch in the sky begins it downward migration till it reaches it's lowest point on December 23rd, the Sun stays at this lowest point for three days before it is born again and begins it daily climb towards summer solstice again.

The Sun staying at this lowest point for three days was interpreted as the Sun being dead for three days before once again rising to the heavens. As the story continues. On the night before the birth of God's Son, there are three wise men who show up to announce the event. Now if you go out on December 24th and look at the night's sky you'll notice an alignment of the three stars that make up Orion's belt that only occurs on this night. This alignment of these three stars (these three wise men) align themselves vertically with what is considered the star that guided Mary to Bethlehem. This alignment is perpendicular and low to the horizon and points right to the spot where the Sun will rise again in the morning and begin its climb to the heavens (its daily one degree climb of its arch in the sky).

The celebration of December 25th as being the birthday of God's Son is totally the long standing Pagan tradition of all these mythological characters. The Christmas tree itself is a big time symbol of a couple of religious dogma I can think of at the top of my head too. One has to do with ancient Russian shamans drying out the entheogenic mushroom called the amanita mascaria. And we still to this day see all kinds of holiday symbolism of this mushroom pasted all over holiday cards and some Christmas ornaments. Another dogma I think of relating to the Christmas tree has to do with a character named Nimrod - but I can't remember too many details about that one. Also the decorative bulbs we hang on Christmas trees are symbolism of those mushrooms I mentioned above that use to be hung on trees by Russian shamans to dry them out.

Anyway, so that I don't start rambling on. December 25th is Pagan star worshiping.

fundie's ass. Just as the Christians stole Saturnalia, Wal-Mart and consumerism have hijacked Christmas. IMHO

As a Christian, I'll go on celeebrating Christmas for the reason *I* celebrate it...with all the trappings I have celebrated it with. I don't care where they originated; I don't care what they originally symbolized. I don't care that Jesus wasn't born on December 25. And I don't care (shudder!) that some people don't believe he ever existed!

They can believe what they want. I can believe what I want. I don't have to convert them, and they don't have to work really hard to disillusion me. Works out great.

Each in their own way. The joy and wonder in children's faces during this season is just wonderful, for whatever reason it's there!

I know there's no Santa, and I don't believe there's a God, but it doesn't stop me from enjoying Christmas.

Joy and Peace to all!