An atheist at a Bat Mitzvah

Yesterday I attended a 2.5 hour service for my niece's Bat Mitzvah. I was raised catholic but as I stated in the subject I'm an 'outed' atheist. My brother's wife is jewish and they are raising their children jewish.

I attended a jewish service once before when I was very young but I don't remember much and I don't think it was nearly as long.

Anyway I was dreading this when I heard it was going to be so long. I have to sit through catholic masses once or twice a year in support of my mother and other family members and I almost inevitably come out feeling annoyed or even offended. But hey it's only an hour once or twice a year I can do that for family and loved ones.

For the Bat Mitzvah I was told it would not be a problem if I showed up late or even just attended the party afterward. But I was determined to show my support and respect for my niece and despite my internal distress there was no way I was going to skip out on what was clearly important to her.

I have to say not only did I make it through I found it almost pleasant, and certainly interesting.

I found the part of the service where the woman rabbi talked about the jewish interpretation of genesis interesting. I've recently finished reading a couple of books dealing with native american history that, as you might expect, touched on their religions and traditions. It struck me that there were similarities between the ideas, expressed by the rabbi and the commentary in the book, of what it means to be human and the real connection to the land and environment humans (in this case the ancient jewish people and native americans). It was all about being human and a part of nature not supernaturalism.

At one point the rabbi spoke of the warnings against false idols and it sounded like it was right out of "American Theocracy" and as if it was specifically targeting the * theology. They idea of 'speaking for god' (which IMO is dangerous) rather than 'lets try and be on god's side' (which I usually do not find threatening)

And in these two sections of the service at least she stressed not the supernatural but the practical impacts and implications of these ideas. She spoke about how key it is to live in harmony (which I interpreted as sustainable) with the real world around us. And about the real practical dangers of treating a person or idea as unerring.

And she spoke about limits. She talked about one of the rules or rituals around food. Specifically waiting, 8 days I think, before you can kill a new born calf or goat or whatever, and pointed out this was about the limits to what we should do despite our power or the stuff in the bible about going out and 'subduing the land and animals'. Imagine that a religious leader speaking about limits on moral superiority.

Of course as the service moved into talking about the divine and the like my interest wanned but it never became annoying and part of that was because even though the audience wasn't raucous it was still clear they Wanted to be there, and got some joy from being there. I likened it to my feeling when I go out in the wild. I go whenever I get the opportunity and stay as long as I can and these people appear to have the same attitude about going to services. This made it pleasant to be around them as it would with any group of people doing something they enjoy. In every catholic mass I've been too it always seems like everyone there is just checking off a box and anxious to get out of there. Of course perhaps I'm just projecting. :)

The rabbi made it a point to make the non-jewish feel welcome by explaining things and encouraging people to read the commentary or sing "la-la" if they wanted to join in the hymns and didn't know the words. I used the opportunity as a learning experience for my son, often leaning over to him and whispering my observations and asking him questions about what differences he saw from the catholic masses he's been too. It was also fairly casual in it's way. People coming and going with relaxed attitudes whereas in catholic masses people sneak in and out guiltily. In my experience anyway.

This all made it, even for atheist, quite comfortable to be there.

Then in the announcements there was one about when and where to go to support an upcoming gay pride parade. Now that's something you wont here in the announcements at the end of a catholic mass.

Now this was in very politically liberal territory. Newton, MA.

As an atheist I do believe humanity is better served by rational analysis of this world, this universe. But I also acknowledge no one person or even no one idea or worldview could possibly have all the answers. I don't think there are Any supernatural answers but I do recognize that just because someone believes in the supernatural that certainly doesn't preclude them from being able to do good work and contribute to the overall benefit of humanity perhaps even due to some aspect of their belief leading them to some new idea or action.

And this jewish congregation is one that I can happily live along side with. They ask themselves "Based on what we believe how do we live good lives and do the most Practical good for the most people?" Note I say "practical good" because I want to remove the implication that one way to 'do good' would be to "convert" or "proselytize". I suppose there is that whole aspect of 'we're the chosen people' that underlays every religion but that is clearly not the driving force behind how this congregation interacts with the community around them.

It doesn't matter to me why someone does practical good or how they come to believe they should be good human citizens just that they do so.

a reform synagogue (woman rabbi).

I'm glad you enjoyed the ceremony and was there to support your niece. Mazel Tov to her!

The Dalai Lama gained my respect by doing just that.

I was raised Catholic and was used to hearing that the head of the church was divinely selected by God and when the Pope spoke it was God speaking. Period.

I attended an address about compassion in our world that the Dalai Lama had been invited to give. His first set of statements were about how he had been thinking about these things for a long time, and how many people seemed interested in what he had to say, but that if anything he said struck anyone listening as being wrong or upsetting they should just let it go. Just let it go.

:wow:

vicious mockery of anything religious the atheist abhors.

Your comments were a non clinical look at a religious ceremony instead of the "lab rat" mentality of most atheist.

looking it over again it might come across as particularly critical of catholicism but that was not my intent and I was careful to quantify most of my critiques of catholic masses I used as my primary comparison with "in my experience" so I hope no one of catholic persuasion takes undue offense.

more of this and less of the other.

I love old Judy Garland movies.

I happen to live in Newton. It is quite Liberal, and it's a nice place to live. I'm curious: which synagogue?

When I was growing up, my family attended an Orthodox synagogue in New York City. I had a wonderful Rabbi as a teacher for several years. One of the special things that he did was to emphasize the danger of blind faith. He always said that if you don't understand a rule, or don't think it's a good idea, you should not follow it. It's an individual's responsibility to think things through - but it's up to the individual to decide what is right.

Sadly, we don't see much of this way of thinking in orthodox religion these days.

on Corey St

Andover Newton Theological School

Enjoyed my 4 years there!

I went to a lot of my friends' bar and bat mitzvahs when I was a kid, and just wasn't old enough to really appreciate what was going on. In retrospect, those ceremonies were far more profound than the First Communions and Confirmations I went to. Including my own.

5,000 years of Jewish history and scholarship, often while being a minority and being chased around, has given us an extraordinary body of spiritually humanist thought.

Such attitudes as the limits of moral superiority are not unknown among Christians, and are central to quite a few, but have been drowned out by far baser calls in too many places. Maybe in another 3,000 years...

I think that's key. Throughout the service the theme of the pursuit of knowledge was clear. And it seems to me the 'student teacher' relationship between the 'preacher' and the congregation also contributed to the welcome feeling. Instead of the strict hierarchy I'm used to being pounded over the head with in a church the service felt much more like a group of people getting together for some intellectual discussion as equals.

Again that seems to parallel the native american ideas of a council where everyone has pretty much equal voice - really it's a form of democracy beyond the mechanics of casting a vote - a way for everyone to participate in the important discussions and decisions of the community and at least Feel more involved and therefore more part of the community and therefore invested in making sure the community (and by extension everyone in it) succeeds.

the priestly castes of Judaism disappeared. Now, there are no priests, just rabbis.

And "rabbi" simply means teacher, not someone blessed with some special insights, powers, or relationship with God. Unlike priests, teachers do not tell you what to think or what to do. They lead you to make your own decisions.

No temple, no need for priests. The synagogue system, focused on education, came to the fore.

I'm ordained and called as "Pastor and Teacher". My job in preaching is first and foremost to teach. And as to democracy, we're big on that, too. I have the dubious pleasure of working for a congregation and God at the same time....but the congregation occasionally reminds me who signs my checks (not often).

What you describe is what I strive for. And it seems to be appreciated. My congregation is growing slowly but surely, and with some interesting and diverse folks.

I think it is important to look for those things we agree on-and protecting the environment is definately one thing that needs all the help it can get. Many faiths I've studied really do concern themselves with practical good and that the individuals behavior should be based upon that practical good. And my particular faith forbids proselytizing :).

My girlfriend is Jewish. I have attended many different types of services with her.
The people at the Temple are always gracious, INTELLIGENT(not much of that in Baptist circles),and genuinely friendly. They are proud of their religion and don't push it down your throat.
They do not use greed as part of their belief system. They are required to do a "good deed" on a daily basis. They are required to atone themselves by going to the person whom they' have wronged and ask THAT person for forgiveness 3 times before God can forgive them.

the University of Chicago was founded by Baptists.

But stereotypes are easier than thinking.

One of our assignments was to attend 3 religious services of a faith other than the one we grew up in. I went to a Catholic Mass, a Friends meeting, and a synagogue. Of the three, the synagogue service was by far the most comfortable, positive, and uplifting. The Friends meeting kinda creeped me out, and the mass was stiff and formal and concentrated on sin and how horrible we humans are.

Unfortunately our textbook had a heavy bias towards Christianity. This was silly as it was written for American students who were likely to be Christians (as I still was at the time) and therefore not need so much analysis of Christianity. It was as if the authors were trying to imply that "yes there are many religions, but Christianity is the superior one, which is why we spend nearly half the book discussing it".

Unlike your class we didn't have any community activity components such as attending religious services. That definitely would have made the class more interesting and enlightening.

they donate money to the local synagogue, have Bar Mitzvahs for their kids and attend service (some, not all) and call themselves jewish. I asked my friend (who was jewish) "do you believe in heaven?" answer: "it's optional." Do you believe in God? "its optional." I know that not all Jewish people/groups are like this, but it appears to me that at least for some of them, it is social/cultural/historical.

I too found Bar Mitzvahs to be refreshing and interesting in a coming of age sort of way. I attended one last year for the son of the "biggest atheists" I know. The kid got a notch in his belt for his accomplishment (I don't mean to sound dismissive, that's a good thing for all of us, especially for teens) and some cash for college. The part of the service I found most interesting is that what was in English was tolerable for atheists like me, even made sense. When I followed along in the book to the stuff done in Hebrew, it was religious nonsense at its worst (not any worse than most religions mind you). Of course, I just stopped following along in the book. Which I thought was a perfect compromise.

I am glad you enjoyed the service! Faith is not the focus in Judaism, following the ethics in the Torah is more important. Behaving is more important than faith.

I think most non-religious people would enjoy Jewish services because it is positive, rational and they focus on making this world a better place, different than the Christian idea of preparing for an afterlife that nobody knows if it actually exists.

first and foremost an ethical system. My Christian friends agree with me. It's always non-Christians who correct me. About my own faith. I find that cute, in a condescedending kind of way.

I Didn't mean to be condescedending. :-) Sorry if I sounded that way. I didn't say there was no ethics in Christianity. Christianity is an ethical system mirrowed on the teachings of Jesus. But faith is more important in Christianity. Without the faith in Christ you don't achieve salvation.

We Jews are "judged" on following the ethics of the Torah and not on a specific belief. The Talmud credits God with the following saying, "I rather see them abandon Me as long as they follow my mitzvot because through good deeds they will eventually find Me"

In Christianity it seems to be the opposite. You perform good deeds for having faith in Jesus. But you cannot reject Jesus otherwise you are not a Christian and you may not achieve salvation.

We Jews believe that people don't have to be Jews to be righteous and they can follow any religion they want as long as they lead a good life. That's why we don't go after converts. Christians feel the need to save people by inviting them to accept Jesus because only through Jesus you can achieve salvation in your opinion.

I could be wrong but that was what I was taught by Christian friends.

Take care!

Testament, there would be far less contraversy in the world. Jesus was Jewish and followed the traditions. "The Last Supper" is proof of that.
I have respect for Judaism, even though I'm an Atheist. They are far more peaceful than the Christians I know, not all. They always seem to overcome real persecution, slavery, etc.
On a rating scale of 1 - 10 of religions, I'd give them a solid 10. Christianity....-5.

I really do think it's intended to be an ethical system. I disagree with those who say it's about faith first. I know I'm in the minority, but it's what I believe, what I try to live, and what I preach.

On edit: I think Paul got it wrong when he taught that faith, and not works, is most important. I think Paul was working through some kind of rebellion against his Jewish roots (I have a fairly complex theory about Paul feeling torn between Judaism and Hellenism and seeing Christianity as a middle way, and on and on...), and the Church has been saddled with Paul's "issues" ever since. I'm a big fan of James the brother of Jesus myself, when it comes to post-Jesus leadership of the Church--"Faith without works is dead", etc.

I've ocassionally considered converting to Judaism (living in Newton can do that), but still struggle with the role animal sacrifice played, and the question of whether it would still be done if not for the destruction, etc. Two of my cousins converted, and I was fully supportive (even when my aunt asked me to talk 'em out of it!) So, Christianity is the best place for me, but I tend to swim against the stream here, too.

emulate. Being open-minded enough to consider conversion to Judaism is a good indication of wanting to create a peaceful setting in your environment. Animal sacrifice ended with the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem.
If I were a believer, I'd consider Judaism, if they would accept me and that is the key. They do have to accept you.

Prayer has taken the place of sacrifices in Jewish practice. Like the story of Abraham (almost) sacrificing Isaac marked the time in history when human sacrifice was no longer acceptable. Many ancient religions practiced human sacrifices and that was the way the Torah says it is not acceptable.

The Torah has laws about animal sacrifices just to limit the practive because it was a way to ween humanity off this primitive need to sacrifice animals to God.

So the Torah limited it by only allowing animal sacrifices to only be done at the Temple in Jerusalem, by specific people, at specific location, for specific reasons, etc.

With the fall of the Temple the ritual could no longer be performed and it was replaced by prayer.

Orthodox Jews (which makes less than 10% of Jewish population) hope for the construction of the Temple so they can continue the practice. Conservative, Reform, Reconstructionist, humanist, etc. moved on and prayer is the sacrifice we make to atone for our sins against God. Sins committed against people can only be atoned if you sincerely ask for forgiveness to the person afflicted and this person will forgive you if he/she thinks you are sincere.

But in Judaism, sacrifices have evolved to prayer and it is no longer a practice.