Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

A Core Message

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Religion/Theology Donate to DU
 
J Williams Donating Member (187 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-26-06 01:08 PM
Original message
A Core Message
I agree with the core message of he who writes anonymously under the pen name of Joseph J. Adamson.

One of the biggest problems in the world is religious bigotry and hypocrisy.

The fact is that we are all children of God, and we are all members of one family called humanity.

Why are so many men, women and children being displaced, raped, poverty stricken, wounded, maimed and killed in the world?

It's because spiritually blind, false shepherds who claim to serve in the name of God/Allah judge others as "evil" or "godless" and live by the sword (gun and bomb) to destroy them.

Jesus said judge not and resist not evil (if you are tempted to judge). Love even the least of our brethren, and even our enemies. And live not by the sword, but by the truth that can and will set us free and out from under the leadership of divisive, false shepherds.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-26-06 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
1. Human nature
tends to discriminate, it seems. And it is soooo easy to like a minister, imam, rabbi, priest, etc, who merely reinforces your own prejudices without challenging you to grow spiritually.

There are those who walk humbly in the Light. You just don't hear that much about them, but rest assured they are there.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
J Williams Donating Member (187 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-26-06 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. I agree, in Part
It is very true that there are countless good people who "walk humbly in the Light." I totally agree with that.

It is advisable for us to judge not, and to resist not evil if we are tempted to judge. It is even advisable for us to love even our enemy, and realize how and why the meek shall inherit the earth.

However, all religions foretell a time when someone will deliver the needed truth to the people, and that truth will expose the bad leadership of the boastfully proud and militant, and enable the humble and meek to inherit the earth.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-26-06 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Leadership is the key word
in the coming ages, I feel it will be up to the individual to walk his/her own spiritual path without dictates from any spiritual authority figure. It will be the individual and God.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
J Williams Donating Member (187 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-26-06 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Exactly Right
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Arazi Donating Member (54 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-26-06 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. You belong to a religious order right?
Do you follow a "leader"?

How did your religious order's leader learn the precepts that form the structure of your faith?

Do you follow some rules and not others? If you do pick and choose, do you feel this disqualifies you then from 100% enlightenment according to the rules established by your religious order?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
greyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-26-06 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. re: "Human nature tends to discriminate"
I thinks that's an essentially meaningless statement in the context you are trying to place it.

However, you mention confirmation bias which is nice. "merely reinforces your own prejudices without challenging you..."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
greyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-26-06 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
2. It's better to identify with the entire community of life rather
than one "special" species among billions. Do you suppose God lavished less care on beetles and gorillas?
I'm still waiting for a prophet to show up who came to save the world instead of a local civilization.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TallahasseeGrannie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-26-06 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Maybe you are that prophet
I mean no pressure or anything....


T-Grannie
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
greyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-26-06 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. :) I'll run with that... I am B.
The difference between me and every prophet that I'm aware of, is that I don't assert having knowledge that was unattainable by anyone else until I came along. I don't have any secret knowledge.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
J Williams Donating Member (187 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-26-06 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. Yeah, but....
Edited on Fri May-26-06 09:00 PM by J Williams
somebody's gotta be an innovator. Somebody's gotta be the one who show's the way to a more positive, more united future.

It's fine to be humble and say you don't claim to have knowledge that was unattainable before you came along. That's good. But somebody must if we are to break out of this mess we're in, where religious bigots are fighting and killing to gain power.

In my view, the person writing under the pen name of Joseph J. Adamson is that person.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
greyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-01-06 05:09 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Innovator of what? "The Golden Rule"?
Edited on Thu Jun-01-06 05:28 AM by greyl
Jellyfish, skunks, and lice follow The Golden Rule as a rule, as have all of the other 10,000 human cultures on our planet that could never in another 3 million years benefit from Adamson's alleged Divine Knowledge. The apparent fact that he only looks a few thousand years back in 1 culture's history for his ultimate Godly lesson plan is a fatal flaw in his philosophy, if one is to take it as more than an angle to fashion books to sell to a targeted audience.

J Williams:
"It's fine to be humble and say you don't claim to have knowledge that was unattainable before you came along. That's good. But somebody must if we are to break out of this mess we're in..."


In my opinion, Adamson isn't accurately assessing the mess that life on earth is in, he's assessing the mess that our particular culture's ecumenism is in. Adamson isn't calling for inter-religious toleration as much as he's asking for religious adherents.

On PBS last night was a show about the AIDS epidemic which included coverage of U2's Bono convincing Jesse Helms to change his position on funding HIV prevention in Africa by quoting the Bible and comparing AIDS to leprosy; AIDS is the leprosy of our time. Bono (a Christian) dumbed down his rational, pragmatic, logical, and secular moral message to communicate with the fundy Jesse Helms using Helms's Bible as a weapon. It worked to a certain extent.
Note that Bono never claimed to be a prophesied messenger of a Judaic God.

From Daniel Quinn(his real name):

The Question (ID Number 77):

A Zen Buddhist friend can't see why in THE STORY OF B you've lumped Buddhism in with "the others." As she says, our teacher would say," If you have a question, go ask a tree." It's true that Buddhism and the other major world religions are involved in attempts at ecumenicalism, but I'm not sure that this counts for much. I suspect that Jews and Buddhists are only involved in ecumenism because they're afraid of being swallowed up whole by Christianity in particular and maybe Islam too. What do you think?

...and Quinn's response:
None of them likes to be "lumped with the others" or as one Buddhist put it "tarred with the same brush." They can ALL find saving graces (as your friend did) that should exempt them from being "lumped with the others." Ask them, and they'll all produce the requisite sample quotes. The fact remains, however, that they're all products of the same culture and all view humans as the very "subject" of religion, innately flawed, doomed to suffering and misery, and in need of salvation (whether it be eternal life in heaven or release from the cycle of death and rebirth). Together, they function as our culture's harem of scolding wives: always moaning about their greedy and materialistic husband, always trying to get him to lift his eyes to higher, nobler things.

Ecumenism among our culture's religions is not about reducing competition among themselves but rather about standing shoulder to shoulder against the common foe---modern skepticism and contempt. They would like to be perceived as no longer squabbling among themselves over petty differences but as together representative of some great, undeniable fundamental truth that the common foe MUST respect. These cultural siblings would smile on my work if I was willing to introduce animism into their company as a sort of retarded little brother, but they're certainly going to object strenuously to my identifying it as humanity's ancient, mighty mainstream and relegating them to a very recently-formed (and now stagnant) backwater. Luckily I don't need (or even want) them to smile on my work.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lvx35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-26-06 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
4. I agree. Its time to test them in my opinion.
Edited on Fri May-26-06 01:39 PM by lvx35
See whose false and whose real. One test is that real religious conviction is completely self contained, it doesn't require worldly power, because GOD is the power, and they know this. Therefore the second I see a religious group trying to attain political power I know its a group that doesn't believe in the power of God, they believe in the power of man, and the state. This is the biggest test to me.

edit: Note its important to differentiate religious groups seeking actual legislative power, like the dominionists from people like MLK, who are called by religious conviction and conscience to go against the state in certain matters...The former seeks to hold power, the latter a redress of greivence.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
J Williams Donating Member (187 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-26-06 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Exactly Right
Nicely put.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-26-06 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. I got the difference
and I agree with what you say. There is no need to defend God. No need to legislate God. There is at times a need to speak out about how people treat people.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-01-06 07:46 AM
Response to Original message
15. Oh of course.
It's never religion itself and its historical tendency to suppress dissent and inquiry. It's always "false prophets" distorting the pure message of god.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ron Green Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-01-06 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. Don't forget, Trotsky, that religion is wired into every society, just as
the Superego, or conscience, is part of each person. Simply complaining about it is not going to do much good. Working to make cosmologies and ethical systems BETTER seems to be a more worthy goal.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-01-06 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Pedophilia has also apparently been "wired" into every society.
That doesn't automatically mean we should make it BETTER, though.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ron Green Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-01-06 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. What a strange comparison.
I won't spend any energy pointing out how they are different and inappropriate for comparison, but I would say that yes, we could strive to make pedophilia better by discouraging people from acting upon their fascination with beauty, innocence and nubility of children, just as we could encourage groups of worshipers to be love-finders rather than fault-finders.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-01-06 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. But with those actions, you're not making pedophilia better.
You're working to end it.

I made the comparison because your reasoning seemed to be that since religion is (nearly) universal, that it is therefore necessarily good, worth keeping, and can be made better.

(I added "nearly" because there have been atheistic cultures, you know.)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ron Green Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-01-06 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Are you defining pedophilia as the desire, or the act?
I suppose the name means "love of children," but of course it's only a crime when this "love" is practiced on an actual child. I would work to end the practice, but if it's a universal desire, as you seem to believe, then we couldn't really end that, could we?

In the case of religion, (since according to my premise it's universal and we can't end it), we should seek to end the practice of tribalism and enmity practiced in God's name and instead encourage ecumenicism, understanding and tolerance.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-01-06 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. Careful now.
I'm not saying pedophilia is a universal desire. Only that we've found it in just about every culture in history. That was why I used it as a comparison to your comment about religion. Certainly not every person wants to have sex with children - just as not everyone has a need or desire for religion, either.

But no, we couldn't end the desire. All we can do is try and stop people from acting on that desire, and causing harm. Same with religion.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue Apr 30th 2024, 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Religion/Theology Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC