Suppose that a charismatic preacher and healer appears on the scene

Boojatta

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Sun May-28-06 09:53 AM
Original message

Suppose that a charismatic preacher and healer appears on the scene

in Iran and begins to attract huge crowds of enthusiastic followers. Suppose that he says that he brings a higher law than the law of the Koran. If the Iranian government executes him, then will Muslims around the world be persecuted for the next couple of thousand years?

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ayeshahaqqiqa

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Sun May-28-06 10:05 AM
Response to Original message

1. Hasn't that happened

with The Babb and Bahaiolah? But I don't think Muslims were persecuted.

I understand your analogy, but the fact is that the Jews didn't kill Jesus-Rome did. That some Christians have chosen to believe otherwise is just a tragedy of history.

What's really funny to me is that many American Sufis I know were raised Jewish-including the first American Sufi, Murshid S.A.M. So much for the myth of anti-Semitism among all Muslims.

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quickesst

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Sun May-28-06 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #1

2. I thought...

and I'm not religious, much less a scholar, Pilate gave the Jewish priests a choice. Free Barabbas or Jesus. The priests overwhelmingly shouted(voted?) "CRUCIFY HIM"(Jesus). Didn't they? What is the definition of murder? Is it only the physical act, or does outside influences contributing to the crime bear any responsibility at all? Just askin'. Thanks.
quickesst

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ayeshahaqqiqa

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Sun May-28-06 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #2

4. I don't know how much of that story was made up later

I know that early Christian sects didn't stress the Crucifixion-some even denied that Jesus died that way (there was a substitute, much as Muslims believe). Even if taken at face value, it wasn't all the Jews, but a small powerful sect that wanted Jesus out of the way. The historical fact that Jews were persecuted for centuries as "the murderers of Christ" goes against Christian teachings and the fact that no one logically condemns an entire people forever because of the action of one group. Of course, that is happening in conservative circles today in regards to Islam-but who ever said conservatives were logical?

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quickesst

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Sun May-28-06 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #4

5. I understand...

that it was more or less a few powerful priests, and I'm not condemning all, but they had the choice, they chose Barabbas, and they're Jewish. I believe too, that there was probably those among the masses who agreed with the priests, as Barabbas was, I believe, a great hero to many. As previously stated, I don't condemn an entire race for the actions of a few, just as I don't condemn them now for the actions of a few. But, to be fair, those few, in both cases, are the leaders who the masses look upon to guide them. Just my o2. Thanks.
quickesst

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ayeshahaqqiqa

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Mon May-29-06 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #5

9. I guess the reason I refuse to condemn them

is that I fear history will look back on the US and say "they chose Bush" and so all our country is condemned.

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manic expression

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Mon May-29-06 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #4

10. One thing

the early Christians didn't stress the Crucifixion because other people thought it was wierd. They knew it would scare away converts, so they didn't make a big deal about it. It was a mechanism of drawing people unaware of the true nature of it all, and it's unfortunately worked for some 1,920 years.

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Odin2005

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Sun May-28-06 11:12 AM
Response to Original message

3. That's already happened with the Baha'i.

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saltpoint

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Sun May-28-06 01:17 PM
Response to Original message

6. No. The current government is not disposed to mass movements,

especially charismatic, spiritually-fueld ones.

Such a figure would be crushed like a potato chip within days.

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Boojatta

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Sun May-28-06 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #6

7. What if the man is at an undisclosed location and his face doesn't

Edited on Sun May-28-06 05:02 PM by Boojatta

appear in the videos that he distributes through a secure network? What if he encourages people to make as many copies as they like and refuses any payment for his intellectual property?

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saltpoint

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Sun May-28-06 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #7

8. Then his phantom aspect would be momentarily inspirational to

the downtrodden and disenfranchised, but in a modern age like this, would not the Putin regime assist the local Iranians in tracking him down?

In Western legends, Robin Hood and Zorro always escape the frustrated possees sent to capture them.

I'm not sure a hiding place is as easily accomplished in modern-day Iran.

For the duration of the phantom's "air time," he would likely become much more high-profile in the minds of the people, yes.

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