The Catholics are debating changing their liturgy again.

I saw this on Comcast's news (which I don't count), and I tried to find it at the US Catholic Bishops' site, but I can't find it there. This is the best link I could find, an AP story at CBS.com.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/06/15/ap/national/mainD8I8KN180.shtml

Here are some of the changes they're debating:

"Minor changes to the wording of many portions of the Mass will be obvious to Catholics. The familiar "Peace be with you" / "And also with you" exchange between a priest and his congregation, for example, becomes "Peace be with you" / "And with your Spirit" in the updated version.

The prayer said before Communion would become 'Lord, I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof," instead of "Lord, I am not worthy to receive you.'"

We Orthodox say "And with your spirit," so that's not odd, as it is how it was translated in the original Book of Common Prayer in the Church of England, too, apparently, but the communion one is an odd change.

Thoughts?

...so it's a retro thing. :thumbsup:

with the church. Brother.

(I am Catholic although somewhat lapsed.)

I'm old enough to remember how it was done in LATIN.

Now, will they take away the joy of a Friday hotdog??? Will it be fishsticks or cheese pizza on Fridays, once more???

but we didn't know what it meant in English. We were pavlovian. When the bells rang we rattled off our memorized lines. On the occasion I go to church (local priest has pissed me off so bad he ain't getting any more of my liberal money) I like to hug the women and if I know them they get a little kiss on the cheek. Its my way of being a peace maker.

To your question, I don't see much of a change. "enter" changed to "receive?" Is that how we spend our time in the vatican?

I'm not sure why changes to the liturgy are tops on the list.

I felt that way when we went to a Greek Orthodox Church. I was in the choir and sang everything using the phonetic spellings below and had zero idea what I was singing half the time. Very annoying. Good thing there were two Greek School teachers who sat behind me who'd translate if I got mad enough.

even when I was traslating it from the Latin back in Catholic school.

"Lord, I am not worthy to receive you." Then they ate him?

I always said Catholic schools were institutions dedicated to the production of atheists. I doubt the new liturgy will change that.

"We do not presume to come to this Thy table" and then there is a part about not being worhy to gather up crumbs by our own merit.

I think the UMC version is nearly the same, also. Don't know about the Orthodox or Lutherans.

Of course, we do everything in as long a fashion as possible. :eyes: Seriously--our liturgies are two-three hours long and much longer on major feast days.

Right at Communion, we just tell the priest our baptismal name, if he doesn't know it, and he recites the rest.

out the homeless or folks with no roofs?

half kidding...

"Lord, I am not worthy that you should come under my roof. Only speak the word, and my servant shall be healed."

Chaplain: Let us praise God.
(The congregation rises.)
Chaplain: O Lord…
Congregation: O Lord…
Chaplain: … ooh, You are so big…
Congregation: … ooh, You are so big…
Chaplain: … so absolutely huge.
Congregation: … so absolutely huge.
Chaplain: Gosh, we're all really impressed down here, I can tell You.
Congregation: Gosh, we're all really impressed down here, I can tell You.
Chaplain: Forgive us, O Lord, for this, our dreadful toadying, and…
Congregation: … and barefaced flattery.
Chaplain: But You're so strong and, well, just so… super.
Congregation: Fantastic!
Chaplain: Amen.
Congregation: Amen.

http://nationalcatholicreporter.org/update/bn061606.htm

It will be at least a year, and likely longer, before priests in the pulpit and Catholics in the pews begin to implement the most significant modifications to the English-language Mass since the innovations introduced following the Second Vatican Council.

Meeting in Los Angeles June 15, the U.S. bishops overwhelmingly approved changes to the "Order of the Mass," resulting in what some hope will be a more faithful translation of the liturgy's Latin and scriptural roots. Skeptics fear that the alterations are linguistically awkward and pastorally insensitive.

The changes will now be considered by the Vatican's Congregation for Divine Worship, which can accept, amend or reject the work of the U.S. bishops. A Vatican determination is unlikely before the next U.S. bishops meeting in November, meaning that final consideration by the U.S. bishops is at least a year away, said Erie, Pa., Bishop Donald Trautman, chairman of the committee that drafted the changes.

Actually, one priest I know will jump on this and try to implement it this weekend if possible. Some will lag and some will lap it up.

And here is the ultra-conservative "Orthdox Caatholc" reaction, just read the comments. Among other things they still think we should go back to straight latin. :puke:

http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=44821

;) We went to a Greek Orthodox church for five years before switching to a Russian Orthodox Church. They still do almost all of the service in New Testament Greek. I still remember some of the hymns, actually, and use them to sing the kids to sleep (it's what I did when they were babies).

The changes are more like what we say at times or sing in hymns (since it's almost all sung). I wonder if there's a reason for that, since the Pope just had a sermon on how we're special sister churches.

How comes we will still say trespassers instead of debtors during the Lord's prayer? I read the comments you mentioned. It sounds like a lot of snobbery is being disguised as a desire for "the more beautiful" or "more adult" or "more theologically correct" translation. These are the same people who insist on translating Abba as father instead of Daddy or papa.

The earlier mistranslation lost that analogy. After over 1500 years of Latin it was bound to take a while to get a decent English version working.