Remember to keep the Sabbath and to keep it Holy

What does that mean. In Genesis there is a story of Arron approaching Moses and asking him to ask the Lord about an old man who was out searching for faggots for a fire to cook with and to heat with but on the Sabbath. Moses asked and was told. Put the man to death for it is an affront to God to do any labor on the Sabbath. Keep the Sabbath Holy. The man was put to death.

Yet who really knows what the meaning of some truly is? Should we kill all that do anything on a Sunday like maybe go to a football game or a picnic?

so should we pick and choose which parts of the bible we agree with?

that happens on the Sabbath around this time of year....

...that the so-called 'biblical prohibition against homosexuality' seems to have absolutely no more basis in the Bible than the prohibitions against working on the sabbath, eating shrimp, or wearing clothes made from two types of fibers.

If one is going to use the Bible as the reason that homosexuality is 'bad', it would only seem fair to make the same point about all the other prohibited behaviors listed in nearby paragraphs.

in this case. Of course, some might take this to mean NO COOKING WITH HOMOSEXUALS on Sunday.

"If any of you has a sheep and it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will you not take hold of it and lift it out? The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Matthew 12:11; Mark 2:27.)

The laws and proverbs of the Old and the New rarely mesh with one another.

contort themselves into all kinds of shapes to manage to make all of it relevant.

Just a disagreement on which laws take priority. Jesus's standard is the Great Commandment which requires thought and understanding applied to the individual situation. Other's still insist on taking the lazy way out of memorizing a rigid set of rules.

too many attrocities are commmitted in the name of religion. Its time for religion to go the way of sea monsters and evil spirits.

The Talibangelicals who want to force the (inevitably Christian version of the) Ten Commandments down everyone's throat are too fanatical to move beyond faith. To such extremists, there is faith and there is burning in Hell for all eternity, with their own salvation dependant on the salvation of the whole country.

Friday? for Muslims
Saturday? for Jews
Sunday? for Christians

you gotta take it ALL literally.

Can't pick and choose

Who says you can't pick and choose?

"Oh, sure, God meant it when he said homosexuality was bad, but he wasn't serious about the Sabbath"


It is dishonest to treat passages from the Bible as literal fact, while deciding that others are just "guidelines".


In a case like this, it is all or nothing.


Otherwise, don't you think the literal "life lessons" in there should be more spelled out?



BTW, "keep the Sabbath" is one of the Ten Commandments. So if anything should be taken literally and to the letter, this would be it.


Kill anyone you see doing any work on the Sabbath

Do not commit murder. What is killing those that work on the Sabbath called then if not murder?

First, I am certain someone has explained to you by now that the Old Testament, for the vast majority of Christians, was replaced by the New. The Old Testament is the foundation for the New. It establishes God's covenant with Man (Israel). It is full of archaic admonitions: do this, this, and this OR DIE. Christians believe that when Christ came he replaced all that and bore the burden for us by dying and now we don't have to live by the letter of the OT law anymore. That is the whole purpose of the New Testament. It is the new covenant with Israel, and it is Jesus. During the Sermon on the Mount, Christ often said "It is said that..." (referring to the Law) and then he clarifies by saying "But I say...." (referring to the new covenant)

I don't know any Christians who treat all the admonitions in the OT as law. I'm sure there are some out there, but it is not standard in most denominations. There's a whole lot of crazy stuff out there. My bottom line with the Bible is: if Jesus said it, do it. Or try to. That's how I pick and choose.

You say you believe the "life lessons" should be more spelled out. But that was not the purpose of the OT as it was recorded by the early church. (The Jews use the Talmud for their laws, and as cultures have evolved so have their interpretations.) The OT sets out not only the old covenant, but also the prophesies for the Messiah. This is the value of the OT to Christians. And of course there is poetry, prose, songs, proverbs, stories and probablly a smidgen of history in there somewhere.

I don't know anywhere that Christ addresses homosexuality directly, although somewhere in Matthew he talks about marriage and a man and a woman. I suppose one could extrapolate out of that, but I personallly don't. On the other hand, I am not homosexual so this is not something I worry about as far as my own moral code. I have plenty of other things to concern my self with, however!

by saying, "Do you know the Bible tells you to commit suicide? 'And Judas went out and hung himself from a tree.' 'Go thou and do likewise.'"

Grandfather died in 1959, but I've always remembered these words, and the danger of taking things out of context, such as Bible verses, and putting them together.

Not when liberal Christians do it, for they merely apply the teachings to their own lives and leave others alone. But when the Fundamentalists do it they pick what they are going to apply to other peoples' lives, and discard the rest. Now many states have laws against gay marriage, states are beginning to outlaw abortion, pharmacists left and right are refusing to fill birth control prescriptions, schools teach "abstinence-only" sex-ed to the detriment of childrens' health and more.

"God spoke all these words, saying: I am the Lord your God,who brought you out of Egypt, from the place of slavery. Do not have any other gods before Me. Do not represent gods by any carved statue or picture of anything in the heaven above, on the earth below, or in the water below the land. Do not bow down to or worship them. I am God your Lord, a God who demands exclusive worship. Where My enemies are concerned, I keep in mind the sin of the fathers for descendants, to the third and fourth . But for those who love Me and keep My commandments, I show love for thousands . Do not take the name of God your Lord in vain. God will not allow the one who takes His name in vain to go unpunished. Remember the Sabbath to keep it holy. You can work during the six weekdays and do all your tasks. But the seventh day is a Sabbath to God your Lord. Do not do anything that constitutes work. you, your son, your daughter, your slave, your maid, your animal, and the foreigner in your gates. It was during the six weekdays that God made the heaven, the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. God therefore blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy. Honor your father and mother. You will then live long on the land that God your Lord is giving you. Do not commit murder. Do not commit adultery. Do not steal. Do not testify as a false witness against your neighbor. Do not be envious of your neighbor's house. Do not be envious of your neighbor's wife, his slave, his maid, his ox, his donkey, or anything else that is your neighbor's." (Exodus 20)

Pretty tough. I am kinda envious of my neighbor's Ox. Or, is it his BMW? And, not taking the Lord's name in vain is a bit tricky when dealing with shrinkwrap.

and exactly what is his/her name?

We must have some decorum, you know.

Of course, there are many names people have called God. YHWH, the Lord thy God, Yahweh, Jehovah, etc. But the basic truth is that He is the pre-existent One, the everlasting, self-existing, uncreated Being who created the universe.

You are obviously using a translation and an interpretation made by someone. But you don't share with us who it was that did the translation and interpretation.

Many different translations and interpretations are different from yours. What makes yours better than the Oxford Annotated Revised Standard Version or any other version?

th.

Question. What does it mean to "Keep the Sabbath and to keep it Holy" Does it just mean go to church or does it mean absolutely no labor of any sort or ??????

you out of Egypt, as identified in the first Commandment, that you must observe the Sabbath.

Others that are not Jewish and live in another time and place are not governed by the Ten Commandments. How's that for picking and choosing from The Bible?

Yes, the sabbath was the seventh day of the week and to keep it holy meant to make it different than the other days (i.e. you do not work)

Orthodox Jews still observe the sabbath.

Jesus healed people on the sabbath and his disciples picked grain to eat on the sabbath.

To your larger point, very few christians observe the fourth commandment today.

An Orthodox or Conservative Jew will, I believe, not drive on the Sabboth, not cook food during the Sabboth, etc. etc. Christians, at least when I was one as a child, used the day to go to church, do good works, and not work or shop (but movies were ok, especially the old Bible epics!). In Islam, there is no compunction to go to the mosque, but many do, especially on Friday. For Sufis, they say that the only sin is to take a breath without remembering God; the only blessing is to take a breath and remembering God. So to us, 'Sabboth' in the sense of others has no meaning, really. But it is fun to meet with others and do zkr, which is traditionally done on Thursday night.

I do know what you're trying to get at, but unfortunately I don't have any great insights on the answer.

I would presume that some sort of emphasis on worship is part of "keeping the Sabbath day holy", such as going to church or temple. Would just spending more time praying be good enough? Who knows?

Would having sex, even the Biblically-approved kind with your partner in holy matrimony, be okay, or is an unholy thing on the Sabbath? Who knows?

Here's something I found about how Jews before the Christian era observed the Sabbath:


Can't tie a knot in a string!? I guess that rules out "festive garments and ornaments" which require lacing.

At any rate, it looks like the idea of being able to save your sheep on the Sabbath predates the New Testament -- this apparently was allowed even when making the effort to save a human life was not. Wonderful set of priorities there, huh?

Clearly the Bible doesn't give that much literal guidance on the subject of what one can and can't do, should or should not do, on the Sabbath, so people just end up making up all sorts of ad hoc rules on their own. Some of these people also seem to think a fair penalty for not resting like you should is being sent to eternal rest under a hail of thrown stones.

I suppose you have to wait until the Sabbath is over to do the stoning, however. Lifting rocks is obviously too much work. You also can't tie up a Sabbath violator to make sure he sticks around for the stoning (no knot-tying allowed), and I imagine running after him and chasing him would be an unholy expenditure of effort as well, so at least there's a chance perhaps that if you violate the Sabbath rules you might manage to save yourself by running away. :)

most christians don't take it literally, but I have found that taking a day off from any kind of work has a really beneficial effect... its my favorite commandment

The way our church explains it is that we need to keep the Sabbath by spending the day in prayer and with our families at home, focusing on love. We aren't exhorted not to shop or work on Sunday, but it is recommended to put off all unnecessary stuff until Monday and just do the minimum of what needs to get done. We try to do that.

In the footnotes it says:
"Keeping the sabbath holy means to keep it as a day separated from others, a segment of time belonging especially to God."

But that is just their opinion.

they had their creation myth

and they had their laws and beliefs

Keep the sabbath holy: keep it separate from the other days. There's a lot of exegesis, Xian and Jewish, on the point.

The man picking up sticks is in Numbers 15. It's a guess as to why he's picking them up. But he knew he wasn't to do it on the Sabbath, and should have planned ahead, one might assume. He disregarded God at best, and was rebellious at worst. The inference from the immediate context is that it was wilful and intentional, not through ignorance. The Law's penalty was harsh in many places when you know better: The law did not forgive. My father wasn't very strict, but if he made a rule, it was usually for my good; and if I wilfully disobeyed it, he was much more upset than if I did it by accident, and he *did* forgive.

I tend to think the Christians I know keep the sabbath: no work, little play, no housework, schoolwork, or shopping. Family time, rest time, church/prayer/study time. Some'll read the newspaper; they invite single people over, they visit sick people they know. The understanding is that it was made for their needs: to keep them faithful to God, and to keep their families strong, to keep them healthy and provide time for things they'd neglect otherwise. It's regarded as holy time, God's time; you don't presume to impose on it. But it's also a time to do good, if that doesn't interfere with the rest of the purpose or if it's an emergency. So pulling an ox out of a ditch is ok. Observance shows love for God, since Sabbath observance is also related to love to God and love to your brother, as he's said he expects it. Violating it shows love to neither, and quite probably shows contempt to God, self, and family.

On edit: As for no labor. The priests in the temple had to stoke rather large fires, and to kill, butcher, and lift dead oxen. They had labor to do. The commandment is not to do no labor, but to keep the Sabbath holy: the rest of the laws pertaining it are reasonably clear. Laboring as God commands is fine; hence pulling an ox out of a ditch. Presumably effort to get to church would fall in line with this.