For College Football and now Basketball. The Message Seems to be...

play tougher teams outside of your conference schedule. Recall this is why Auburn didn't get a chance to play for the national championship even though they were undefeated. They didn't play a tough team in their non-conference schedule. Now, basketball is doing the same thing. Notre Dame lost a bid for the tourney because of their weak non-conference schedule.

I think this is a positive development. College football and basketball have too many lopsided matchups during the regular season. If you want to be considered for a championship, then play the top teams.

...it's the most balanced league right now, but the committee members still bend over for any ACC school that walks by.

And how many ACC teams are in?
The ACC is extremely balanced from 4 all the way to 8 - and only got 2 of them in. That's not exactly bending over.
So the ACC got 5/11 in.

Did the BE get 6? Do they have 12 teams? (Seriously, I don't know anymore)

I think they were quite fair overall.

I'll give the ACC credit for the top teams - Carolina, Duke, Wake. After that, I think the BE has the advantage. I have no problem with GT, who damn near won the tournament as a 5 seed. I don't like NCSU's selection, as they didn't even go .500 in the regular season. They also had no quality wins prior to the Wake game, were thumped at home by WVU, lost to St. Johns at MSG, and lost to UVA and FSU at home. Maryland had a sweep of Duke, but lost any claim to a bid by going 5-9 in their other ACC games and losing 3 times to Clemson. VT also had a win over Duke, but had awful losses to VMI and James Madison (at home), and no good OOC wins. Miami had a win at UF, but also lost to SC St (?) and Xavier at home, and only finished 7-9 in the conference. For the BE, ND went 9-7 in the "ESPN schedule" group (UConn, Cuse, Nova, Georgetown), while Georgetown went 8-8. ND had no bad losses until Rutgers in the BET, OOC losses to Michigan (before the shit hit the fan there), UCLA, and DePaul, and a road win at IU. I'll concede the lack of strong OOC wins, although the ESPN schedule should give us some slack. Georgetown has a slightly weaker case, with a road win at Pitt but OOC losses to Temple, Oral Roberts, and home losses to St. Johns and Providence.

Barring great OOC wins (Iowa, although those were with Pierce) or a good tournament run (WVU, Ga. Tech), I don't think a .500 or less team should be rewarded. It seems like the committee is placing way too much weight on the conference tournament/last 5 games than on a team's body of work throughout the entire year. This hurt ND more than usual, as their most important player (Quinn) has been banged up the last few games. The only change I'd make to your scenario would be switching ND for NCSU. The top 4 ACC teams are clearly deserving as are the BE's top 6. The only problems come at the margins.

and lost to Washington at Washington (yes, the #1 seed) by only 4 pts.

And no offense, but having 4 games against #1 seeds (and 7 against 1's and 2's) does not make it easy to get a lot of wins.

1) Weak out of conference schedule
2) The finished very weakly combined with
3) Early exit from Big East tourney

ND didn't deserve it, they gave really no sign of live since the game against BC and they did have some bad losses.

So it didn't matter all that much.

Just to clarify.

And now more than ever before in the B(C)S era, that matters.

Hoops tourney bids are decided by a sequestered committee who spends the entire week following conference championship games. BCS bids are decided by reporters, coaches (well, more likely their secretaries) and idiotic computer simulations (they should just let an Xbox decide). At least with hoops, the selectors spend actual time following the games of all possible entrants.

Of course, this is with the disclaimer that we blew several big chances to clinch it. However, ND should not have to play a brutal OOC schedule given that they played UConn, Syracuse, Villanova, and Georgetown twice each during the year. UCLA was a good OOC game, beating IU on the road was a big win, and the Michigan loss was on the road and at a point of the season where Michigan was still good. I wouldn't complain about DePaul getting in ahead of us, as they beat us head to head, but there is no way N. Iowa and UAB should have been in. Iowa and NC State were also stretches, as both had mediocre regular seasons. IMO, the committee weighted the conference tournament/last 5 games way too heavily over the entire season. Having the Iowa AD, who was once AD at N. Iowa, as the committee chair doesn't sit right either.

I knew there was going to be some criticism of Iowa, Iowa State and Northern Iowa making it and the conspiracy minded among people would single out Bowlsby, but all three teams deserve to make it and none got a real favorable draw. ISU gets Minnesota in the first round, Iowa gets Cincy, and UNI gets Wisconsin. Now put your favorite team in there and wonder if they may actually have a chance against any of the aforementioned schools. And Bowlsby had to remove himself from the proceedings when Iowa was being considered and voluntarily recused himself when UNI was being considered. So do not go there and suggest any bullshit conspiracy or anything like that. GO IOWA, UNI AND ISU! Screw the Big East and the ACC! Midwest basketball rules! Besides, Illinois will win it all anyway.

Not saying they would win all three, but they have beaten UConn, BC, and Villanova, all of whom are better teams. Bowlsby might have recused himself, but I'm sure the committee gave his teams the benefit of the doubt (the same thing happened with UNLV a few years back). ND went 9-7 against a brutal conference schedule (they were in the "ESPN" group with UConn, Cuse, Nova, GT twice each). Iowa did have some great OOC wins, but those were with Pierce. They also struggled in their conference, which was weaker than usual this year (other than UI and to a lesser extent MSU/UW). They did beat MSU, and NCSU beat FSU and Wake, so they at least did something to earn a spot. However, I'm still upset about UAB and UNI. Like I said, ND did blow several chances to clinch a bid, but I still think they had a far better than both UAB and UNI. There's no way either of these would have a 9-7 record with ND's schedule. I like Midwest basketball too, but am pretty pissed off about this whole thing. DePaul, who beat ND head to head and was in a decent conference, also has a legitimate complaint.

...last year they lost to UCONN in the Big East Tourney--and UCONN went on to win it all...the selection committee obviously did not take that into account...you could not have expected ND to go much farther in the Big East drawing UCONN so early on.

I feel a bitch-slap coming on, and I want that selection committee right in front of me!

We might have had a tiny chance to be the last BE team even after the Rutgers loss if WVU had lost to BC, but that win (and also Nova) rocketed them ahead of us, and I can't say I disagree with that. We beat them head to head and had a harder conference schedule, but they had better OOC wins and also closed the year very strongly. I do find it troubling that ND has gone 9-7 with the "ESPN" (harder) schedule 2 years in a row and still been left out both times. I'm also upset about the Price (Iowa) vs. Quinn thing. Iowa had all of their big wins (other than MSU in their conference tournament) with him, but he was since kicked off. ND had 3 of their losses with Quinn either out or hurt, but he would have been back by the time the tournament started. The de-emphasis of conference play really bothers me too. ND went 9-7 with a hard schedule, Iowa went 7-9 in a weaker conference (albeit with solid OOC wins), and NCSt also went 7-9, but with no quality wins. I'm not even getting started on UNI or UAB.

Who are you pulling for now that ND is out? Picking a few from each conference, I'm going to go for WVU (the real life "Hoosiers") and the rest of our BE brethren, Wake and GT from the ACC, OSU and TTU from the Big 12, Gonzaga, UCLA, and mighty Oakland.

Notre Dame got a #4, and UCONN a #3! Stanford--the top team in the country right now, only got a #2--but they gave Tenn and LSU both #1's--the women's selection is even more phucked up than the men's.

As for the men, I'll be rooting for UCONN--I'm originally from Connecticut, so gotta go with the local school. I'll cheer for any BE team--although I can't say I want Syracuse to win it all. And I will definitely cheer AGAINST any ACC team!

I don't know how the #1 can slide to a 2 seed, but I'm guessing it's the same math that puts a #6 to a 4 seed (Louisville men). I'm sure there is some amendment that Tennessee and Summitt are guaranteed a seed no worse than #2, and am surprised that Geno and UConn don't get the same. UConn was inconsistent (much less dominant than the past, although this is expected w/o Diana T.) this year, but looks to be clicking at the right time. Our #4 seed seems low for a team that beat UConn, Rutgers, and Duke, and tOSU, but I do think we can make a run. I'm not familiar with the UNC women, but think that we'll be well prepared after our BE and OOC (Duke, MSU, tOSU) schedule. We also avoid Stanford and Duke, which are experienced teams. I'm obviously biased, but we also have a very well balanced team. Jackie as a superstar wing, Duffy is a very good PG, Borton and LaVere are talented and experienced post players, and Gray, Allen, Erwin, and Gaines give us some good depth. I don't see any glaring weaknesses, esp. since there aren't any other superdominant teams like UConn or Tennessee this year.

...I'm sure you agree. Besides, ND is the only other team besides UCONN that has won a national championship in the last 5 years. They have that history and experience knowing they can do it (sure, different players, but the same coach).

Summitt is a good coach, and she's made it to the last two championship games because of that (and with some help by quite a few refs) because they got out of tight spots. Now, however, there's much more parity, and her mediocre team ain't goin' as far this year.

Still gotta say it's UCONN if they play as well as they did in the Big East.

By the way, UCONN didn't get a #1 last year, nor did they get the overall #1 the year before when they only lost one game--set an NCAA record for consecutive wins (something like 65) and beat Tenn and Duke during the year. There really is a bias against the Big East and especially against Geno.

Look no further than that game. ND was probably last one in, but then getting beaten by a bad team combined with WVU playing their way in.

Georgetown shouldn't be considered in that list at all. G'town hasn't been a force for quite some time and Nova has been streaky. UCLA was an OK OOC game, not a good one, they just are tremendously strong this season. IU was not a big win, big win status should be reserved for beating tournament teams, not also rans. Bubble teams who finished strong did seem to get the nod moreso than not, but then again, ND gave no sign of life, complete with the choke in the BE tourney.

My best summary is that ND's failure to close games gave the committee the chance to 'screw' (depending on your POV) them. If they had beaten UCLA, DePaul, Pitt at home, or Rutgers in the BET, it would have been much harder to leave them out. I am pissed at us for failing to take matters in our hands. However, I still disagree with taking a 7-9 NCSU team, or UAB or UNI. Iowa at least had good wins (albeit with Pierce, who is no longer a member of the team). I don't get the NCSU love at all. Beating Wake w/o Paul should not absolve them of a sub .500 season. GT isn't quite up there with the UConn/Cuse/Nova trio, but is still a 8-8, bubble level team that was no gimme. We also snapped BC's unbeaten streak, and won at WVU. IU wasn't a huge win, but was at least as good as NCSU's biggest road win (GT without Elder), and better than anything UAB or UNI did. ND did it's fair share of damage to itself, but this doesn't mean the committee didn't screw up either.

EDIT: Michigan (road loss) was scheduled as a strong OOC game based on their NIT title and the return of most of their players. They were good at the time of the game, but completely imploded due to injuries and suspensions.