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Roy Jones, Jr vs Jeff Lacy

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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-14-09 06:31 AM
Original message
Roy Jones, Jr vs Jeff Lacy
TODAY - at Tucson, Arizona (ESPN2) - 12 rounds, light welterweights: Vivian Harris (29-3-1, 19 KOs) vs. Noe Bolanos (20-4-1, 12 KOs).

SATURDAY - at Biloxi, Mississippi (PPV) - 12 rounds, light heavyweights: Roy Jones Jr. (53-5, 39 KOs) vs. Jeff Lacy (25-2, 17 KOs); 12 rounds, light heavyweights: Danny Green (26-3, 23 KOs) vs. Julio Cesar Dominguez (20-4-1, 14 KOs); 10 rounds, cruiserweights: BJ Flores (23-0-1, 14 KOs) vs. Epifanio Mendoza (29-7-1, 25 KOs); 10 rounds, lightweights: Verquan Kimbrough (21-1-2, 7 KOs) vs. Jason Litzau (24-2, 20 KOs).

SATURDAY - at Las Vegas (HBO PPV) - 12 rounds, interim WBA super flyweight title: Nonito Donaire (21-1, 14 KOs) vs. Rafael Concepcion (13-3-1, 8 KOs); 12 rounds, featherweights: Steven Luevano (36-1-1, 15 KOs) vs. Bernabe Concepcion (29-1-1, 16 KOs); 10 rounds, light welterweights: Mark Jason Melligen (15-1, 11 KOs) vs. Michel Rosales (24-3, 21 KOs); 10 rounds, lightweights: Anthony Peterson (28-0, 19 KOs) vs. Luis Antonio Arceo (21-8-2, 14 KOs).

There are some interesting fights scheduled for this weekend. The first is tonight’s ESPN card, which is headlined by Vivian Harris. He is 31, and turned professional in 1997. While he has only lost twice since 2000, he has a reputation as a journeyman fighter, who can beat anyone except the top five or six contenders in the very competitive junior welterweight division. He did win the WBA title in 2004, but lost it when he was KOed in his second defense.

Bolanos is only 22, but like many Mexican fighters, has a lot of professional experience. He won his first 19 fights, but has only won one of the next six. Clearly, he hasn’t been able to make the step up to the level of the top ten in the division. It seems unlikely that he will be able to compete well against Harris, unless Vivian has not trained properly.

It’s a shame that the two cards on Saturday are PPV. Neither one should be. The HBO card features Nonito Donaire, who is an extremely talented fighter, but who needs more exposure before meeting a top contender, to be a PPV draw.

The card in Biloxi has an interesting undercard, though not strong enough to support anything but a serious main event. And, while the Jones v Lacy fight could be good, and at one time might have been important, is not considered an A-grade fight at this point in either fighter'’ career.

Roy used to be considered the pound-for-pound best in the sport. However, boxing fans became frustrated when he avoided the most competitive fights. And casual sports fans found his style – which was a classic "hit and don’t be hit" defensive approach – to be frequently boring.

Lacy was an impressive young contender, who was considered a "sure thing" in his division. The boxing company Everlast had begun selling "Left-hook Lacy" t-shirts, along with their Joe Louis and Sugar Ray Robinson collections, which was unheard of considering that Lacy had not won the world title. And when he did challenge Joe Calzaghe for the title, he lost a one-sided decision, in a fight where he took a serious beating.

On paper, it would seem that Roy should be able to dance his way to an easy, though relatively boring, decision. If he wins, most fans know it won’t mean that he has recaptured the skills from his glory days. If Lacy wins, however, it could be argued that he has taken a step back towards getting his once promising career back on track.

Roy likes "safe" fights. For example, when he moved up to heavyweight in 2003, in order to win a "title," he picked John Ruiz. I remember debating another former fighter, who said that Ruiz was too big and too strong for Jones. I noted two things: Ruiz only averaged 14 punches per round in his top fights, and he was slow. And, in a fight that lacked excitement, Jones won a decision by throwing a few more punches per round than the slower Ruiz, who could never quite catch up to Jones to take advantage of his size and strength advantages.

Around that times, Roy considered fighting Mike Tyson. It would have, of course, made a lot of money. However, even though he was on the downside of his career, Mike could move forward quickly, cut off the ring, and throw fast, hard combinations. Considering that Roy would be KOed in two of his next three fights, one suspects he would not have done well with Tyson.

Lacy does hit hard. He can throw a lot of punches. And he used to be an aggressive fighter. His problems are not, in my opinion, physical. The loss to Calzaghe did more harm to him psychologically than physically. He had come to believe that he was invincible, and losing – and then the boxing writers and fans rejection – left him doubting himself. It’s never good to enter the ring doubting yourself.

If Lacy is fully prepared to go to war, then he has a chance. Roy is going to be looking to make him doubt his ability, by show-boating and getting inside Jeff’s mind. He has to ignore that, and concentrate on beating his older opponent up. If Roy looks to rest by laying against the ropes and blocking punches, take advantage of that opportunity to bang him on the biceps. That makes it harder for old arms to work well later in the fight. Ignore his gimmicks. Don’t listen to his trash talk.

Easier said than done. But it can be done. I’d like to see Lacy recapture his potential. And, as much as I’ve always admired Roy, he needs to retire. If he wins, he’ll probably fight again, and it will be a shame to see him reduced to a lower status. I want to remember him at his best.
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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-14-09 07:09 AM
Response to Original message
1. PPV for Roy is just silly....
The dude is finished.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-14-09 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Right.
His greatness was based largely on his athletic abilities, not the basic boxing skills. And I mean that 100% as a compliment, because I truly enjoyed watching him at his best. I favor the hit-and-don't-get-hit styles.

But take away that split-second timing, and the reflexes that made him great, and he is a vulnerable fighter. An example of the opposite, curiously enough, is found in Bernard Hopkins: never the fastest, and relying entirely upon a mastery of the most basic skills, he can still compete with the young lions in the sport. (And though B-Hop's fights are often "boring," I rarely, if ever, miss them.)
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-14-09 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
3. dang, this is about boxing
I thought this would be a comparison of political activists and competing social theories. Sorta the opposite of the skit done in "Growing Pains". The teenage guy was pursuing an older woman who was a college student. She took him to a party and a person there asked him "What do you think about Freud vs. Jung?" The kid puts his fists up and says "I think Jung can take him."

Probably he was right though. Jung did have a wicked left. Watch the left!
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-14-09 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
4. Women's Boxing to debut in 2012 Olympics
http://www.feminist.org/news/newsbyte/uswirestory.asp?id=11883

"Boxing was the only remaining sport not open to women in the Olympics. Olympics minister Tessa Jowell said, "It will be a landmark moment come London 2012 when for the first time every sport will have women participating in it."

Interesting. I've never thought it was necessary for women to compete on the man's playing field to be considered equal, but I sure wouldn't want to try to stop Laila from boxing.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-15-09 05:45 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Interesting.
My daughters have been asking me to teach them to box recently. My older daughter, aged 15, wants to compete in the Silver Gloves in January. When she asked if I would let her, she noted that I have trained one of her older brothers for competition.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-15-09 05:58 AM
Response to Original message
6. I liked Teddy Atlas's
comments about the undercard last night. In the first two fights, guys with some talent were matched against opponents who had zero chance of winning. The opponents wouldn't have posed any risk if they were triplets. I understand that young fighters need to become comfortable in the rong, but in the first fight in particular, the 9-0 guy was matched against someone he would have KOed in his debut. I may have been influenced by the events in Saratoga Springs two weeks ago, when the promoter made a one-sided card of mismatches, for the benefit of the hometown fighters.

In the ESPN main event, Vivian Harris was injured when, in the second round, he moved in with his head up, towards his opponent. Bolanos, who was already fighting "shorter" than Harris, ducked to avoid the punch coming his way. Harris was injured by the impact of Balanos's head hitting him on the temple (though it was Harris moving into it). He went down, and when he stood up, the ref took him to a corner to let the doctor examine him.

Harris collapsed in the corner. The ref could be heard saying he had five minutes torecover, if he wanted tocontinue. Fortunately, others recognized that it would be foolishe to allow the fight to continue. It was declared a "no contest," and a stretcher was brought in to take Harris for medical treatment.

One of the things about boxing is that a guy in his early 30s can be "older" than a guy in his late 30s. It depends on how many rounds one has fought, and how much punishment they have taken. I hope that Harris hangs up the gloves.
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Awsi Dooger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 12:26 AM
Response to Original message
7. Roy wins
10th round knockout. Mostly meaningless, other than it likely sets up a masochistic bout in which Roy will be battered. I'll try to take advantage, like Camacho over Leonard.

I'm not sure I agree that Roy "avoided the most competitive bouts." In his prime, virtually nothing was competitive. For years he held the alltime record in percentage of judged rounds won, by huge margin. That's a seldom quoted stat, like the best football stats which never make it to mainstream media. Roy won an astounding percentage of scored rounds, far beyond other lifetime greats. And that included bouts against Hopkins and Toney, etc. Jones was so dominant he turned even the anticipated bouts into walkovers, and did not take rounds off versus standard foes. His surreal athletic ability allowed virtually every round to fall into his favor, despite throwing relatively few punches.

For one thing, Jones was a bloated light heavy. His best weight was super middleweight. I've seen Roy in person several times and it's comical to imagine he fought ANYONE as a heavyweight. I don't knock him at all for the Ruiz bout.

Actually, Jones is now underrated in terms of overall reputation, due to poor choices late in his career. There was no need for a second bout with Tarver. Nor Johnson or subsequent fights, once his freakish speed was gone. He took some grief for avoiding overseas bouts during his prime but that's understandable given the incomparable screw job in Seoul '88.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. I agree on Tarver.
I think that he could have given return bouts to two other fighters, however: Hopkins and Toney. And there were some Europeans he might have fought, though I place that below the return matches.

At his very best, Roy definitely ranks with the all-time great light heavyweight champions (and also Ezzard Charles, who, though he never won the title due to WW2, is considered by some to be the greatest light heavyweight of all).

His career at light heavyweight likely would have been extended, in terms of being at the top, had he not gone up to heavyweight. And although Tarver won two of three fights, I do not think he will be remembered among the greats, except as the guy who caught one at an opportune time.
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