Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

It Is About Time That The News Media Is Starting To Realize The Poor Quality Of The Principals

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Education Donate to DU
 
tonysam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 01:54 PM
Original message
It Is About Time That The News Media Is Starting To Realize The Poor Quality Of The Principals
Edited on Sat Feb-06-10 02:11 PM by tonysam
Being Selected By Tweed And How It Hurts The Children


In the good old days for an educator to become a Principal it took many years of working their way up the ladder. First, the educator spent a minimum of ten years in the classroom, earning the respect of his or her peers. Then the educator spent a minimum of five years as an Assistant Principal, which included teaching one or two classes. Finally, the educator was offered a Principal position and while some principals might have had problems with their staff the vast majority of principals were respected by the staff due to their experience as a educator who rose through the ranks. However, than came the non-educators who came to dominate the upper levels of the DOE, lead by Chancellor Joel Klein who turned the New York City public school system upside down and not for the better.

Under the non-educator, Chancellor Joel Klein, we saw the formation of the "Leadership Academy". This program was a shortcut for people who had little or no experience in education to become a Principal, The problem was that these "newbie" principals have no classroom experience and had not worked in a school environment. The result has been a deterioration in principal quality. I previously, wrote about this here. It is these inexperienced "Leadership Academy" principals who have been told to run their school as they please that have caused the ATR crises and overcrowded "rubber rooms". However, the greatest problem is that these principals lack "common sense" as reported by Joanna Molloy of the New York Daily News and that brings me to the two dopey principals at JHS 190 and PS 52 who caused the City extreme embarrassment and ridicule. Remarkably, the Principal of JHS 190 actually defended her actions. Unbelievable! Even the DOE's mouthpiece, the New York Post had an editorial on these stupid principals. What will eventually happen to these principals? Probably nothing but a letter to their file. Yes, principals do get letters to their file. As for being reassigned to the "rubber room"? That's not happening.


link


Oh how I wish for the days of yore when principals were actually once teachers who had taught for many, many years in the public education system and were just a few years from retirement (65--not 50--by the way) and who actually demonstrated a love for children and a deepseated passion for the profession of teaching.

Not anymore. Now we have principals who are barely out of college--and I mean traditional college age students--who teach only a couple of years if that before taking on a job which gives them absolute power over teachers. More often than not, they are people who can't teach, who don't know the law as it pertains to teachers' property rights, who don't know their asses from holes in the ground as in the case of my last principal who wrongfully fired me when she didn't one damned thing she was supposed to do by Nevada law or the union contract or FMLA.

Worst of all there is NO real accountability of principals. This is the real problem in public education, and it is the result of the simple fact principals are not closely supervised, and they need to be.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
tonysam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
1. Here is an article the blogger refers to
Edited on Sat Feb-06-10 02:04 PM by tonysam
in his piece where the principal tries to play CYA:


Education officials say it was a "mistake," but the principal of a school where a 12-year-old girl was arrested and cuffed for doodling on her desk won't back down, the student's mom said Friday.

Alexa Gonzalez no longer faces a suspension for scribbling with a lime green marker, but principal Marilyn Grant told her mother, Moraima Camacho, that agency policy dictated that she calls the cops.

"(She said) that it wasn't their fault that it was something they had to do," Camacho said of her meeting with Grant at Junior High School 190 in Forest Hills. "She doesn't consider it doodling."



More


Instead of being reprimanded or otherwise "disciplined," this principal will probably be voted Principal of the Year.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Smarmie Doofus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 02:10 PM
Response to Original message
2. Agreed. Also, educational administration in general: its size, its scope.
Populated also by folks with little or no classroom experience: APs, curriculum coordinators, reading coaches, iep coordinators, technology coordinators, and on it goes.

Usually short-lived classroom teachers who didn't much like it, but DID like the principal. Most classroom teachers can do without this sort of.... shall we say... expertise.

And who does the principal talk to?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tonysam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I've mentioned how Washoe Coumty School District superintendent Heath Morrison,
Edited on Sat Feb-06-10 02:18 PM by tonysam
who is an Eli Broad Academy "graduate," had only four years teaching experience before he became an administrator, presumably when he was still in his twenties--and that is hardly enough experience and maturity to supervise people in this type of endeavor let alone have enough firsthand knowledge of teaching. He's only 43 and a superintendent at this rather major school district. Of course he will move on to bigger and better things after a couple of years.

And Morrison has more teaching experience than some superintendents; meanwhile, Eli Broad is going around trying to recruit MBAs--people totally unqualified to run schools--for these types of administrative jobs.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
3. Replacing principals is key to RTTT
Both the turnaround model and the transformation model require principals to be replaced.

Turnaround model: Replace the principal and rehire no more than 50 percent of the staff, and grant the principal sufficient operational flexibility (including in staffing, calendars/time, and budgeting) to implement fully a comprehensive approach to substantially improve student outcomes.
Restart model: Convert a school or close and reopen it under a charter school operator, a charter management organization, or an education management organization that has been selected through a rigorous review process.
School closure: Close a school and enroll the students who attended that school in other schools in the LEA that are higher achieving
Transformation model: Implement each of the following strategies: (1) replace the principal and take steps to increase teacher and school leader effectiveness; (2) institute comprehensive instructional reforms; (3) increase learning time and create community-oriented schools; and (4) provide operational flexibility and sustained support.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lifelong Protester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-12-10 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #3
18. Yep, and a lot of school systems are really wondering
if they want any of that RTTT money. We are very skeptical.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
5. How true. I've witnessed too many instances where Principals
delegate their responsibilities to teachers because they haven't the slightest idea how to perform the task. I, myself, have had to create schedules of classes for the staff. The principal had never been trained to do it or as the principal put it, "I just don't understand how to do it!" This woman didn't even know how to complete and submit a procurement form and had another teacher do that!
Totally disgusting and making a six figure salary!:mad:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
frazzled Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
6. We had a principal who had come up through many years in the public education system
At my kids' elementary school, when I served on the principal's advisory council. She was an absolute horror. Honest, after a meeting once, my husband dubbed her "Helga, She-Wolf of the S.S." She really shouldn't have been allowed around young children.

Now, I say this not to denigrate principals in general--either the ones who came up through the education system or the kind who came out of the Leadership Academies. I'm just saying not to take random stories about this principal or that principal and make blanket claims about school administration in general. Bad principals can come through any background ... and good ones, too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tonysam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. One lousy principal versus hundreds of good ones in the old days.
Edited on Sat Feb-06-10 02:39 PM by tonysam
But the principals that are coming out of the "leadership academies" are appreciably worse. You HAVE to pay your dues to be a good principal--it is NOT like other supervisory jobs, for principals can easily RUIN teachers' careers if they don't adhere to the law. The skills are different to supervise, but they MUST know something about teaching, about students, about dealing with parents as well as the LAW.

Unlike supervisors in regular businesses, who typically ARE supervised themselves, principals basically have the run of "their" schools. Nobody is watching them to see if they are doing their jobs properly and are following the law--their supervisors are typically clear across town.

A kid of 30 or even 40 CANNOT be a good principal--there isn't the experience, there isn't the maturity to handle a job which gives him or her absolute power over subordinates unlike virtually any other job in this economy. Don't hand me any crap otherwise.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Certainly. But the problems I specifically identified have drawn
Edited on Sat Feb-06-10 03:09 PM by Fire1
particular attention in my district and the current district manager (appointed by the state to replace the superintendent)is finally acknowledging an age old wide spread problem in our district. Prior to relieving all principals (except HS) of APs, this was a well hidden secret.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
9. Older requirement for being a High School Principal
1. Played football in High School and College.
2. Still a football fan.
3. That is all.


Those were the requirements back in the 1960s when I was in high school. If it wasn't football, it just didn't matter.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tonysam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. I doubt that. But thanks for the humor.
n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. My dad was a middle school principal in the 60s
He had 15 years teaching experience and he had coached 3 sports. But he never did play football.

So there goes your theory. :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stopschoolpaddling Donating Member (353 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. Our superintendent is a football coach from the high school.
Talk about a moron, I wouldn't hire him to stack rocks in my yard. I wonder who they will get next since his contract wasn't renewed. My guess it will be some child molester who likes to see children bend over in his office. There won't be a shortage of these kinds of principles to choose from around here. As for Arkansas, bring in anyone else but those who have risen up through the ranks around here, there's not a decent one among them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
radical noodle Donating Member (88 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-12-10 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #9
19. In our area
It's basketball not football.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lifelong Protester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
12. Hey, I take exception to your broad stroke condemnation
of principals. I am a principal, and I teach, at least half, and some days, 75% of my day is spent in a classroom.

But I a sure there are a fair share of administrators in that position that don't belong there. I agree that principals sometime can be so far removed from the classsroom as to make your position as a teacher untenable. If a district is small, like mine, I am held to pretty tight accountability by my superintendant, the board, and the community at large.

I am sorry to hear of your being dismissed. Did you have good union representation? I sure hope so.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tonysam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Fine if you think you are okay and maybe you are
Edited on Thu Feb-11-10 12:56 PM by tonysam
But reality is reality, and the quality of principals is getting much, much worse than 20 or 30 years ago.

Now Eli Broad types want MBAs in those jobs.

It is also reality school districts will go to any length to protect principals against teachers including bribery, perjury, subornation of perjury, and forgery of one kind or another to dump the unwanted teacher. It is an unequal relationship because unions are totally worthless in protecting teachers from wrongful terminations.

A good principal is extremely rare these days. And those who are have extremely loyal staffs.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lifelong Protester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Yep I think I am okay,
Edited on Fri Feb-12-10 12:01 AM by Lifelong Protester
everyone on my staff, I hired. I am loyal to them and they to me. We are a small school where things work, teachers have a lot of freedom to explore new ideas, there is no 'canned' curriculum, and we only talk about 'test scores' as much as we are required to by law. Live by the test, die by the test, I say.

Edited to add: I am older than dirt. Meaning, I don't even know how to text, my phone doesn't take any photos, and I still listen to the radio.

Not to make light of it, but it sounds like you have some pretty local axes to grind. I have no idea of who or what Eli Broad is. Sorry.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tonysam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-12-10 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. You are a rare one, by the way
Anymore there has been a decline in the quality of principals. It used to be they cared about the students and the teachers. Too many now see the job as a stepping stone to something better.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stopschoolpaddling Donating Member (353 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-12-10 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #12
20. How do you feel about a principle who endorses the behavior of her Kindergarten teacher
when she brought a 2 foot paddle into her classroom to explain what could happen to 5 year olds who didn't behave? "She came into my office and asked me for the paddle and I gave it to her. If she doesn't get control of her classroom we won't get our test scores." That's word for word out of our principles mouth. When I told her I objected to threatening my child with violence she then informed me that, " I have better things to do with my time than to discuss this with you." Excuse me?!!!
Unfortunately, after an experience like this, I've lost any and all respect I had for public schools and the people who run them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mzteris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
14. so it's okay if principal's names
get mentioned in the press, then?

Just checking . . .

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-14-10 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
21. I am so grateful to have a great principal.
I can't say I agree with him on every point, but he makes a point of collaborating with staff to make decisions, and he treats us with professional respect.

In general, that's expected of admins in our small district. He excels at it.

I wish this were the case in every district.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tonysam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-14-10 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Unfortunately, he's a rarity.
It's getting worse all the time thanks to "reform."

I had two horrible principals in a row, and of course they are still employed and I am not.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-14-10 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. I had some bad principals in the past.
I actually learned to appreciate one of the weakest further down the road; he offered no leadership whatsoever and allowed all staff "collaboration" to be dominated by a few bullies who shouted everyone else down and were willing to get ugly.

And I do mean ugly; the personal attacks, disrespect, and unprofessional behavior was incredible. Finally one of the worst was fired for numerous counts of harassment of staff, and things calmed down a little. I learned to appreciate that admin, though, when he was replaced by an authoritarian micro-manager who treated us all like incompetent delinquents.

Generally, a system which kept principals competing with one another, and therefore building groups of supporters and enemies, made some principals ineffective or destructive even when they weren't bad people, and could have been decent in other circumstances. That district moved principals regularly, so that they couldn't establish any successful school with family and staff support that would challenge district authoritarian policies. So every time a principal moved, a core of supportive staff would go with him or her, invading the new school site and abolishing whatever was going on there, bringing their own agenda with them....which did nothing to create a professional, collaborative working climate.

I moved to a new state and a small, friendly district 5 years ago, and I'm glad I did. I took a MASSIVE pay cut, and gave up 22 years seniority, to do so, and it was worth it. A healthy, positive working atmosphere is worth a great deal.

Now if I can just keep that job, since my low seniority puts me at risk with constant budget cuts.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tonysam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-14-10 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. They rotate principals at Washoe County School District
Edited on Sun Feb-14-10 05:10 PM by tonysam
every few years for that reason. Very few principals are at the same school for many, many years.

The dirtbag who dismissed me was "coincidentally" moved out of the school where I had worked, an at-risk school, to a school clear over to Sparks which is in a higher socioeconomic neighborhood. Somehow I don't think she volunteered to head that school. After all, she moved just this year, the following school year after the hack arbitrator upheld her illegal dismissal of yours truly.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri May 03rd 2024, 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Education Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC