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Ten lies the anti-gay marriage people tell -- and how to respond

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Spryboy Donating Member (77 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:52 AM
Original message
Ten lies the anti-gay marriage people tell -- and how to respond
This is a companion piece to my previous post, Ten basic truths of the fight for equal marriage rights for gay couples. I am not the original author of this, but it was this list that motivated me to write the Ten Truths. Once again, I don't think we're doing enough at the grass-roots level to educate people and engage people on these subjects... every little bit we do helps. So here we go:

1. Gay people are trying to change the definition of marriage.

Answer: No, we're not, any more than we're trying to change the definition of your car by buying a car of our own. Nothing about the existence of gay marriage alters heterosexual marriage. What we're trying to do is obtain the same rights that straight people have. The definition of marriage between heterosexuals remains exactly the same.

2. The institution of marriage is under attack.

Yes, it is: by straight people. By a high divorce rate. By infidelity. You will not protect the institution of marriage by preventing people from participating in it unless marriage is only defined for you by the people you exclude… which is kind of pathetic if it's true. Allowing gays to marry does not in any way threaten heterosexual marriages or the institution.

3. If gay people are so big on tolerance, they need to be more tolerant of people with different points of view.

No group needs to tolerate its own oppression or the people who make it possible, any more than black Americans needed to find "middle ground" with Southern sheriffs or Jews with Nazis. There is never any need to compromise with people who would seek to take away their rights.

4. The public voted and gays lost. Why can't you just let it go?

The courts decided and we won. Why didn't YOU just let it go? We're fighting for a right. You should be aware that we will never let it go until we have it.

5. Yes, but the courts overruled the will of the people, and in a democracy, the will of the people is what counts.

The particular democracy in which we all live created the judicial system in part to prevent the tyranny of the majority -- to prevent large groups from stepping on the rights of small groups. Our pursuit of justice via the court system is actually much more in keeping with American values than your pursuit of legalized bigotry through the mob rule of hate-driven ballot initiatives.

6. But this has nothing to do with hate. I don't hate gay people -- I just believe marriage should be between a man and a woman.

Part of being an adult means taking ownership of the consequences of your actions. When you are voting to deprive gay people of a right they should have, it really doesn't matter whether you are doing it out of bone-deep hatred or out of adherence to something your preacher said. You are taking an action that is designed to hurt people. If you can't own the consequences of that, you're a coward and a hypocrite.

7. But I'm acting out of a deeply held religious conviction.

How would you feel if my deeply held religious conviction told me that blacks or Jews or women or Mormons shouldn't have equal rights? Your right to enact your religious conviction within the secular law of our society stops when that conviction tramples on someone else's civil rights. Moreover, "religion" is not a magic word that gives you license to hurt other people. Besides, this isn’t a religious issue. This is about a civil marriage license you can get at City Hall.

8. But there's no comparison between the fight for equal rights that black people went through during the civil rights movement and what gay people are doing now.

Of course there is. Both are civil rights issues. The opponents of the black civil rights movement often argued that the separation of the races was ordained by God. And opponents of equality often boasted, then as now, that "the people" would never put up with this. They lost then, as you will lose very soon.

9. But we're not actually hurting anyone because gay people in California already have domestic partnerships -- which is the same thing as marriage, minus the word.

It's not the same thing, and the religious leaders who told you it was were knowingly lying to you. (Isn't that a sin, by the way?) A vast number of rights afforded straight married people by organizations ranging from the IRS to health-insurance companies to private employers are denied to gay people in domestic partnerships.

10. Well, you're not going to win any friends by staging these protests.

The protests are not designed to win friends; they're designed to make our enemies aware that they can't use money to hurt us and expect to escape public notice, attention and condemnation. If you think that people should have the right to give large sums of money to campaigns secretly without ever being identified, well, I suppose you can try to get that passed via ballot initiative. Good luck.

Incidentally, we have plenty of friends, as you'll see when "Repeal 8" is on the ballot in 2010. When it passes, we hope you'll remember everything you've been saying for the last week about how "the people have spoken".
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nichomachus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
1. K&R
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unpossibles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
2. good post. k&r nt
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Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
3. This one, IMO, says it all:
"But I'm acting out of a deeply held religious conviction.

How would you feel if my deeply held religious conviction told me that blacks or Jews or women or Mormons shouldn't have equal rights? Your right to enact your religious conviction within the secular law of our society stops when that conviction tramples on someone else's civil rights. Moreover, "religion" is not a magic word that gives you license to hurt other people. Besides, this isn’t a religious issue. This is about a civil marriage license you can get at City Hall."

:applause: K&R...and wish I could K&R a few hundred times!
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Spryboy Donating Member (77 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. Thanks! n/t
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sakabatou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
4. Excellent post
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ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
5. Excellent.
I'm bookmarking this one.
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Rainbowreflect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
6. K&R
Thanks for the great points!
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
7. Excellent. But I have to admit I don't bother with that. I focus on...
my values.

Bottom line. I consider each and every human being inherently worthy of my respect as a fellow guest on this planet. As a consequence I value equal protection under the law. Anyone opposed to consenting adults of the same gender enjoying the exact same rights I am entitled to by virtue of my birth as a heterosexual, simply does not value human dignity or equal rights. As far as I'm concerned, I don't have to argue a thing. They have to justify to me why discrimination is a value to them.
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Spryboy Donating Member (77 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Unfortunately it doesn't work that way...
People cling to their ignorance and their "beliefs" out of ignorance. People who are otherwise good and fair minded, just haven't given the matter any critical thought, or just have no clue. It's up to us to engage people and point out the reality, the truth, the reason behind things. Too many people just accept what they're told (by their parents, pastors, preachers, leaders) at face value.

Engaging people one on one, and not assuming they understand or know about even basic things we take for granted (like civil liberties 101) is important. It's not a priority for most people, so most people don't think twice about it. If you engage them, with patience and reason and logic and facts, you can educate them and sway them, and they'll be on our side.

Look at how many people who voted for Prop 8 would now vote against it, because they really had no idea what it was they were actually doing, or didn't really understand the consequences... and only do so now due to the huge out-cry and protests that Prop 8's passing caused?

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