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Laura902 Donating Member (333 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 10:31 AM
Original message
Evangelicals call for the excecution of homosexual people
Who will stand against Uganda's brutal anti-gay law?

By Kathleen Parker
Thursday, February 18, 2010

In a time of constant calamity and crisis fatigue, proposed legislation in Uganda to execute gays passes through the American consciousness with the impact of a weather report.

Corrupt politicians count on the brevity of the American attention span, but certain items demand a tap of the pause button. How exactly does the idea of executing gays evolve in a majority-Christian nation? Interesting question.

Gays in Uganda already face imprisonment for up to 14 years. Under a bill proposed last October by David Bahati, the government could execute HIV-positive men and jail people who don't report homosexual activities.

We are officially appalled, of course. President Obama called the proposed legislation "odious" in remarks at the recent National Prayer Breakfast. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton also mentioned Uganda at the breakfast. Even evangelical mega-pastor Rick Warren made an impassioned Christmas video plea to Ugandan pastors, declaring the measure "unjust," "extreme" and "un-Christian."

Warren's message wasn't prompted by outrage at the treatment of gays, however, but by accusations that he had helped create the bill. Warren's Saddleback Church has hosted a Ugandan pastor who supports the legislation, but the purpose-driven pastor insists he has had no role shaping the proposed law. Though Warren deserves to be taken at his word, other comments he made in his defense are problematic.

In a statement to Newsweek, Warren said: "The fundamental dignity of every person, our right to be free, and the freedom to make moral choices are gifts endowed by God, our creator. However, it is not my personal calling as a pastor in America to comment or interfere in the political process of other nations."
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I'm not so sure about that. It may not be Warren's personal calling to comment on "political process." But is neutrality really an option for one of the world's most powerful Christian leaders when state genocide of a minority is proposed in the name of Christianity?

If we decide that genocide is too political for interference, then what good is moral leadership?

Other evangelical Christians operating in Uganda are less easily excused from responsibility in the country's increasingly hostile attitudes toward gays. Often cited as having stirred the pot are pastors Scott Lively, Caleb Lee Brundidge and Don Schmierer, who last March worked with Ugandan faith leaders and politicians to help stop the "homosexualization" of the country.

No, nobody "made" Bahati write the bill. But these three pastors, known for their conviction that gays can be "cured," have been spreading their particular brand of gospel in Uganda, and it seems to have found traction. The three have distanced themselves from the proposed law and say they never encouraged punishment for gays.

This may well be the case. In fact, let's assume it is. Let's further assume that these missionaries have only the purest of intentions and want only to help strengthen the traditional family. Dear Sirs: Uganda isn't Connecticut. A country where gays are routinely harassed, rounded up and incarcerated doesn't need stoking by American fundamentalists on a mission from God.

In an interview with Alan Colmes, Lively said he was invited to the African nation because Ugandans were worried about American and European gays trying to export homosexuality to their nation. Given that Uganda was already rather unwelcoming to gays, it seems unlikely that they needed advice from American preachers. Instead, it seems more the case that Uganda has became a laboratory for zealots who have found a receptive audience for their personal cause.

The proposed law is a case study in the unintended consequences of moral colonialism.

Meanwhile, one would think that Uganda, given its history, would have had enough of executions related to homosexuality and religion. In the 1880s, the martyrs of Uganda were burned to death by Mwanga II, the king of Buganda, who was miffed, by some accounts, when his own homosexual advances were declined by recent Christian converts.

And now Uganda's Christians wish to make martyrs of gays?

Not all do, of course. Some pastors are opposing the bill, and Ugandan President Yoweri Museveni has said the proposal is too tough. Human rights watchers predict the bill will be toned down to exclude capital punishment, but imprisonment is also unacceptable -- and no American should find difficulty saying so.

In a "Meet the Press" interview last November, Warren said he never takes sides, but one wishes he would. To borrow his own words, it is in certain cases extreme, unjust and un-Christian not to.



I don't know how you could not be completely sickened by reading this, the evil that is within some people is astounding. How dare a religion that calls for "thou shall not kill". Disgusting.
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msongs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
1. warren is on the side of making lots of money for himself using religion as a method nt
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Toilet Donating Member (63 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
2. I vote
that Ugandans stand against it.
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atreides1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Good luck with that.
Come back and let us know how that works out.
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FreeState Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #2
20. I hope you mean stand against the death penalty and not gays n/t
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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
4. pure and simple it has nothing to do with christianity OR religion
this is a country that needs a devil, the way germany needed jews.

Does everyone in Uganda agree? Probably not, but the idea is so dangerous that aligning one's self with the opposition is in effect a death sentence also.

Perfectly rational good germans were frightened to death that if they could come for your neighbor because he was jewish they could come for YOUR family for disagreeing.

This is calculated social engineering, and gays are merely convenient. Imagine, a "crime" of which you can only be accused, admit to, and be unable to conclusively prove or disprove - absolutely NOBODY is safe. In a continent that takes the opportunity to commit genocide seriously, and often, this is nothing new.

It's just sad that we here in America do NOT have a Secretary of State official opinion on this matter . . . .

Hillary? Have anything to add? Or are you still studying the problem?

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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. I disagree. Religion is precisely the problem.
The reason why homosexuality is so widely condemned is because Christianity is so integral to our basic culture. If people weren't hearing this crap from the pulpit all the time, they would be more realistic about homosexuality.

Romans 1:26-27 (New International Version)
"26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion."

Leviticus 20:13 (NKJ)
"If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them."

The same with your other example of Hitler. Antisemitism is a fundamental dogma of Christianity. Hitler capitalized on that when he set up Jews as a scape goat.

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OnTheOtherHand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. hmmm
Almost 30 years ago now, I attended a very conservative Christian church for a couple of years. I don't remember a sermon on either of those verses.

They're in there, along with the anti-Semitic verses, like loaded guns waiting to be used -- but they aren't exactly "fundamental," as far as I can see.
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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. that doesn't incite christians to kill
I do believe religion is the lever in this equation though - so the question is who is using the lever and what are their motivations.

But agreed, religion is the root of all evil that men does to man.
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Toasterlad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
15. Religion Is An Ideal Excuse For Bigotry
This bullshit has EVERYTHING to do with religion, because without it, they wouldn't be able to justify it to ANYONE.
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TokenQueer Donating Member (762 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #4
19. Bullshit! American Christians are directly responsible for this!
:middlefinger:
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jeremyfive Donating Member (434 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
5. Evangelicals have a little trouble with the whole "Thou Shalt Not Kill" thing--it's inconvenient.
Remember Pat Robertson advocated for the assassination of Hugo Chavez on air?

That "Thou Shalt Not Kill" thing always trips 'em up.
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. They do, but it is actually a prohibition against murder...
...and not killing generally. Murder by definition is unlawful. There are hundreds of commandments in the Old Testament with death as a penalty and male homosexuality is one of them.
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. So is the consumption of shellfish.
Yet, somehow, that gets swept under the rug.
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muffin1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #14
21. So is wearing garments made from different fibers,
Edited on Fri Feb-19-10 11:50 AM by muffin1
and working on the sabbath. Typical "buffet-syle christianity" bullshit.

:kick:
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madmax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. Yes,
they're still looking for that 'exception clause'. :grr:
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madmax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
8. Maybe they need to look at this....
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queerart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
12. Terrorism By Majority Vote.....


Is still Terrorism......


It's not brain surgery..... Call them what they are.... "Terrorists"....



Here's a video to mull over......



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miULdI-qocg






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Trillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
13. Sad.
Hypocrisy.
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muffin1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
16. It's not his calling to comment on MURDER?
If you can't stick your neck out to speak against the systematic killing of people for simply loving other people, the what the hell good are you?

Fuck you, Rick Warren. Sometimes I wish there was a hell, so that you and your fellow "christians" would finally get what the fuck you deserve.

Oh well, not everyone feels about you the way I do. I'm sure you'll still get an invitation to speak at the next inauguration. :grr:
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
17. SOP from Warren
When nailed with his misdeeds he starts tap-dancing around semantics.
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TokenQueer Donating Member (762 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
18. I am so sick of fucking christians and their bullshit skydaddy!
Fuck. Fuck. Fuck.

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