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Wrote about queer anti-assimilation: Would like input.

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Paradoxical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 09:01 PM
Original message
Wrote about queer anti-assimilation: Would like input.
I'm taking a class called "Radical Writings, Hate Speech and Manifestos". And as part of my midterm exam, I have to write several essays on different topics dealing with radicalism. One of them is queer radicalism and radical sexuality.

I'd kind of like to see what the community thinks about anti-assimilationist rhetoric. I recognize it's benefits. But I also feel that they get a lot of things wrong.

WARNING: There is the use of graphic description of sexuality and sexual acts within this essay that some may find offensive.

Gay pride parades are a multi-faceted experience designed to empower participants in the fight against generalized homophobia as well as expose the viewing public to the "gay world" in both an attempt for acceptance and a cry of revolt against the hetero-normative lifestyle.
As explained in That's Revolting, there are two major factions within the queer movement. The first and most outwardly recognizable are the conservative/assimilationists who could be understood as pragmatists. In so far as the movements goal is attaining queer rights, the assimilationists feel that "participation in U.S. imperialism is crucial to the larger goal of assimilation, as the holy trinity of marriage, military service and adoption has become the central preoccupation of a gay movement centered more on obtaining straight privilege than challenging power" (Sycamore 1).
The second of the two factions are the radicals or anti-assimilationists. Unlike the assimilationist, the anti-assimilationist seeks to question the very foundation of the privileged heterosexual culture. They see their queer sexuality as a "starting point from which to reframe, reclaim and re-shape the world" (Sycamore 6). For instance, they support the ever increasing radicalization of gay pride parades. In one capacity a radical gay pride parade makes an overt statement, to the hetero-normative world, that radical sexuality is here to stay. Yet in another capacity, the same radical gay pride parade can desensitize a population over time and with ever-increasing exposure. Possibly leading to the opposite of it's radicalist mission; a greater level of gay assimilation into the heterosexual community through acceptance of differences.
For the sake of the question, let us take a moment and attempt to envision a pride parade that's overt purpose is to resist assimilation. In a world where open expressions of sexuality are considered taboo, such a parade would have to provide for public displays of queer sexual acts. These acts are not for the purpose of arousal. Instead, they are an attempt to counter the hetero-normative vision of sexuality. Where as the missionary position is considered a bore, a shining example of the dysfunctional nature of our restrictive world. Presenting "obscene" acts such as male-with-male anal sex, mutual masturbation, blow-jobs, lesbians performing fellatio or using toys on one another, orgies, and many other forms of radical sexual expression would act as a form of "shock" therapy for those watching. Parade floats in the form of giant phalluses or vaginas filled with sequined, shiny, half naked drag queens and all-dyke baseball teams confessing their sins before a covenant of inter-sexual nuns in blue and priests dressed in pink while Jesus fucks Satan on an elevated platform. Participants carrying signs with slogans like "We fuck who we want, when we want!" or "Marriage is for the depraved!". Booths offering food mirrored after genitalia or sex toys with toppings like "cum" or "menstrual blood".
All of these manifestations of fringe sexuality serve as a catalyst for expressing ones inner deviant. Consequently, they force the otherwise immune general public to deal with their own inner sexual deviancy. It is these acts that fall so far outside the realm of the socially acceptable that they reside within the philosophy of absurdity that can enact radical social change. When someone is presented with a premise outside his or her comfort zone, it forces a sort of recalibration of perception. For social change does not come from the complacency or quiet determination of the pragmatist. If you don't get people's attention, you stand little chance of leaving a mark on society.


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David__77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
1. Interesting.
A radical left epithet for the pro-imperialist assimilationists was "Ameriqueers." One sectlet said this, anyway. On the other hand, you had groups in the 80s like "Lesbians and Gays Against Imperialism," that were very forthright is linking sexual orientation liberation with human liberation generally. Also, going back further, there were the gay socialist collectives that sprung out of the Gay Liberation Movement organization.

I am torn on the issue. I'm a gay male, and have sort of gone back and forth on the question. These days, from my perspective, it seems like the old "LGBT community" is really a sort of countercultural subset of the gay/lesbian population-at-large. This is particularly the case among relatively younger gay males, so it seems to me. If there is a love of "shocking displays," it's because it's enjoyable to self and one's friends rather than making an impact on broader social sectors.

I've been in a domestic partnership, which like make marriages ended in divorce. While part of me wants to reject the very notion of marriage as a public act with its corresponding social roles, I must confess that I do romanticize it. I suspect there is a lot of this sort of thing...
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Paradoxical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #1
14. Yeah I am reading a short essay from an author who was in one of those collectives.
He seems to feel fairly disenfranchised. He wrote off San Francisco as a small area where the privileged elite of the gay community spend their days.

In some ways, I understand his objection. I think San Francisco is often, wrongly, associated with the "gay" community while GLBT persons in the rest of the world are overlooked.

I'm also not old enough to really have a total perspective on the factions within the gay rights movement. But I too feel a bit torn between the more radical "counter-culture" activity of some in the movement and the much more mainstream movement to obtain equal rights as heterosexual society.
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David__77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 02:10 AM
Response to Reply #14
22. I have really struggled over it.
I am sure I'm older than you - in my 30s now. But I feel a linkage to that past because when I decided to come out at 14, I spent so much time studying the experiences of the early gay rights movement, and especially its radical variants. At first, I was very "out," taking up "Queer Nation"-style politics in some ways. Later, at times I adopted a sort of "rejectionist" position where I always downplayed the gay rights question as secondary to racism, imperialism - I treated it as a sort of afterthought to the struggle against sexism. These days, I see more of gay people in gay bars than anywhere else. That's my fault...
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auntsue Donating Member (169 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
2. I get the need for self-expression and "I am what I am"
but for many people - they think "gay" is all about what is seen in "Pride" parades.
Many of us are not "dykes on bikes" or wouldn't be caught dead with "butt-hanging-out chaps".
Many of us are teachers or nurses or other "just-plain-folks" who just go about our lives.

I have no judgement against those who are more "out there" but imagine a youngster just begining to "come out" to themselves. If they think they are destined to be "out loud gay" it would most likely stress them even more.

Ahh. . . it's ok with me for there to be out loud gays - I hope it's ok with them for me to be just plain gay.
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
3. Sure...
"marriage, military service and adoption"

The serial comma is back in fashion; you may wish to use it here.

"In one capacity a radical gay pride parade makes an overt statement, to the hetero-normative world, that radical sexuality is here to stay."

I think you should place a comma between the word "capacity" and the word "a."

"For the sake of the question, let us take a moment and attempt to envision a pride parade that's overt purpose is to resist assimilation."

The word, "that's" seems weird in this sentence, I think it is a mistake. Additionally, I think you should avoid first and second person in most non personal essays. Try to avoid the words "you" and "I."

"Jesus fucks Satan"

I try to avoid slang when I write school essays. Perhaps "fornicates with" would be better.

Some parts of your essay seem to suggest gay sex is deviant. You may wish to clarify and/or define terms.

My family needs me, I may get back to your essay answer later.



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Paradoxical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Still working on grammer and spelling.
Thanks for the heads up. I'm terrible with grammar rules.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
4. There's always going to counter-culture groups, and more prominent in excluded minorities.
It's the same sort of impulse that spawned the Black Panthers and black supremacy, the urge to reject the values system of the majority which is mistreating the minority.

That said, the reason that "normal" is defined as it is is because, despite anecdotes to the contrary, humans ARE a pair-bonding species. The majority of people--gay, straight, socialist hermaphrodite, whatever--end up seeking someone with whom they can share a special bond which goes beyond sex. Whether they find that person or not, the bell curve still shows that most individuals choose to look for one mate. It could be debated how much of that is social pressure, but there's strong evidence that we're biologically wired to be pair-bonders.

That, however, doesn't necessarily reflect on whether or not the surrounding culture is sex-positive. People pair-bonding doesn't bear any reflection of whether sexual behavior between consenting adults is viewed as "obscene," no matter how unusual it may be for current attitudes. Seeking a single loving mate is not exclusionary to a healthy appreciation of gay male orgies, or transwomen, or what have you.

There's a distinction to be made, in my view, between the superficial non-conformist elements of what you're talking about--the "shock value" of intersexed nuns and costumed performers--versus the much more lasting impact of creating a new definition of what is a normal level of openness to sexual behavior. Although the most valuable thing that could be done, in my view, is the breaking down of the gay/straight binary archetype, to find a social recognition that human sexual behavior and tastes are a little more complicated than just two or three such classes.
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Paradoxical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. It's funny you say that because I'm bi.
And it often seems to be the case that there is a false binary. Either you're gay or you're straight. I've never thought of myself as either being gay or straight. I just kind of hover between the two. Which, like you suggested, is probably the case for a lot of people.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 01:42 AM
Response to Reply #5
21. It's a very important distinction to make, and not nearly enough people do.
I think that some people who are entirely gay feel somewhat threatened by the idea of a sliding scale of sexuality, because--whether they know it or not--it feels to them like it undermine their feeling that they were born gay, and that sexuality isn't a choice.

The truth of course is that some people are very gay, some are very straight, and others are in between, and this shouldn't threaten anyone's feelings about themselves. I myself would probably rate about a 1.5 on the Kinsey scale, not really enough to call myself bi, but enough that I've hit on other men. (Including at least one local DUer, actually.) My last girlfriend was extremely bi--she had had a 3 year relationship with another girl in high school, and I watched her attempt to jump other girls right in front of me, definitely not for my entertainment. While there are general categories people break down into, those categories have to be very loosely defined due to the fluidity of human sexual behavior.
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Uta Donating Member (110 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
7. You know.....
Some of us have never been to a gay pride parade......Well, at least I hav,nt. (I live in rural Idaho!) So I cant comment on the many parade references.
But, I can comment on "radical sexuality", or maybe I cant.
Theres nothing radical about my sexuality. There is no mystique, no great mystery.
'm a middle-aged out lesbian, and It may disappoint to learn that I just want some companionship, some cuddling, and if its a good week,maybe some intimacy which modesty prevents me from describing.

What in the world is "radical sexuality"?
I would hate to think I am missing out!
Damn!
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Uta Donating Member (110 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Oh great
so now I'm all feeling like I;m missing something , you know, "Radical", in my intimate relationships.
and now everyone on DU knows that my sex life is'nt "radical".
Shit man.
Damn you, Paradoxical, Damn you!
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Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #8
27. I'm not very radical either.
I live in rural North Carolina. I'm a laid back person. I guess I just don't fit any stereotypes, much to the chagrin of those who prefer to sensationalize the GLBT community as one monolithic ass chap wearing, lesbian bike riding event. I would wager most of us are not very "radical." So, don't feel bad. Some of us prefer a more laid back approach. You are not alone. :hug:
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Uta Donating Member (110 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Well,...
I DO own a bike!
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Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Lol, you RADICAL you!
:P

I used to own one, but it was a 1979 Western Auto Radio Flyer Buzz Bike (a regular bicycle). I loved that bike and kept it until a couple years ago when my step dad's shed burned down. It was destroyed in the fire.

I have always wanted one of those bikes like the Motocross guys drive. I guess I have a little bit of a "radical" spirit even if I cannot afford it, lol. Still, I'm just a laid back sort, overall.

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Uta Donating Member (110 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. I read your essay again
You DO know, do'nt you, that gays haved been gay for centuries without parades.
Without parades, we are still gay. We do not define ourselves by our parades.
Parades are just fun, WAY fun!, and it is certainly self affirming to be surrounded by like people.
But parades do not a homo make.

On second reading of your essay, I think you're making too much of the whole parade thing.
Shit man! I dont even OWN any leather. I'm so NOT radical. Damn.
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Uta Donating Member (110 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Okay. On 3rd reading of your essay.....
all I have to say is EEEeeuuuWWwwww!(Menstral blood and Cum!!?? On CAKE!!????:? YyEuuucckk! What kind of people do you think we are!?
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Paradoxical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. You are betraying your rage by attempting to isolate me from your "people"...
I am your people. Just like the authors in the text that I referenced.

You don't seem to understand that I am addressing the radical queer philosophy. This is not exactly mainstream material.
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Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #12
30. I would like to see, for once, a more "everyday people"
approach to any writings or stories about the GLBT community. No offense, but the sensationalist approach has been taken zillions of times before and has been done to death.

Of course, radicals have every right to be who they are too. I'm not really knocking radicals. I'm knocking the sensationalist approach. It's been done.


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Paradoxical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Radical writings are radical writings.
There are plenty of authors and publications that cater to the everyday LGBTQ member.

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mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #30
34. I fear that "radical "is getting a bad rap here
do something to help the cause, or lacking that disrupt the machine. Maybe radical gay anarchist is a better term
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Uta Donating Member (110 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. Yay!
I might just be a budding radical after all
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Paradoxical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. The essay discusses pride parades because the test prompt says so.
That's why I didn't say that the sole justification for the existence of the queer agenda is to synthesize radical gay pride parades. I am required to speak specifically on the issue of gay pride parades.

As for radical sexuality, I am not making a statement on the internal perception of ones sexuality and whether or not one considers it to be radical. That would be absurd. When I reference "radical sexuality", I am using the term as a means to describe the social construct of what is sexually permissible and what is fringe sexuality.

And just to make it perfectly clear, I am commenting on the given position of certain individuals within in the movement. They do not necessarily reflect my opinion. Nor do they represent the movement as a whole. This topic is very narrow

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Uta Donating Member (110 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. I'm backing away slowly.........
......slowly

But wait! Before I do, allow me to please introduce you to the idea, that you've made many horrendously wrong assumptions.Like all of them wrong.

Yes.
You have.

Di you do your research on WWW.GodHatesFags.com?
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Paradoxical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. This is called projection. You're backing away from something that you do not understand.
I thought I made it pretty clear that the essay is on queer radicalism and radical sexuality. Implying that I'm not really speaking to or about the mainstream GLBT movement in any other sense than how that group is perceived by the radical wing.
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Uta Donating Member (110 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. You stated that you wanted imput.
I gave you some.

You're welcome.
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Paradoxical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. What you gave me is not intellectual input. Which is what I wanted.
If I wanted someone to get angry and start yelling irrational nonsense at me, I'd go to a church.
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Uta Donating Member (110 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Good luck in your quest
grasshopper
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Paradoxical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. As you can see there have already been others who have given me input.
You, on the other hand, seem to be intent on acting oddly immature.
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Scottybeamer70 Donating Member (844 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 01:06 AM
Response to Original message
20. As a
much older gay male.., I must admit that I know of little of what you speak.
I guess that would make me a "non radical"............thank goodness!!!:)
Truly, I have never experienced a pride parade....I don't even like a regular
parade.....whatever that might entail.....I guess I'm just too private, and
I certainly don't live on the fringe. Good luck with your writing though.
Sounds like you have your hands full with that assignment!!
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FreeState Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 02:37 AM
Response to Original message
23. This paragraph makes no logical sense to me...
Edited on Mon Mar-07-11 02:39 AM by FreeState
For the sake of the question, let us take a moment and attempt to envision a pride parade that's overt purpose is to resist assimilation. In a world where open expressions of sexuality are considered taboo, such a parade would have to provide for public displays of queer sexual acts. These acts are not for the purpose of arousal. Instead, they are an attempt to counter the hetero-normative vision of sexuality. Where as the missionary position is considered a bore, a shining example of the dysfunctional nature of our restrictive world. Presenting "obscene" acts such as male-with-male anal sex, mutual masturbation, blow-jobs, lesbians performing fellatio or using toys on one another, orgies, and many other forms of radical sexual expression would act as a form of "shock" therapy for those watching. Parade floats in the form of giant phalluses or vaginas filled with sequined, shiny, half naked drag queens and all-dyke baseball teams confessing their sins before a covenant of inter-sexual nuns in blue and priests dressed in pink while Jesus fucks Satan on an elevated platform. Participants carrying signs with slogans like "We fuck who we want, when we want!" or "Marriage is for the depraved!". Booths offering food mirrored after genitalia or sex toys with toppings like "cum" or "menstrual blood".


The bolds seem to contradict each other. Why would a group that does not want to assimilate hold a public event to counter the norm? Most that don't want to assimilate would not care what others thought of them in the first place.

I think (unless this is just an out take) your stated purpose of Pride parades in the first paragraph is incorrect. The main purpose for Pride in my experience is to create an open community. My first Pride was amazing to me because it made me feel part of society, not different.

As for the sexual imagery, Im not sure I get the point int he writing other than shock. Does it really lead the reader to better understanding of what your explaining?
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Paradoxical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #23
32. Resisting assimilation involves countering the hetero-normative vision of sexuality.
That doesn't seem to be a contradiction to me.


The sexual imagery is a requirement of the essay prompt. I have to describe a radical gay pride parade in detail. Which, believe me, was weird.

I do not personally believe in most of this. I just wrote it because I had to and then I was looking for input.
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Prism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
24. This fundamentally misunderstands the LGBT community by relying on heteronormative stereotypes
Edited on Mon Mar-07-11 04:48 PM by Prism
It isn't the sexuality that is radical, but the willingness of the LGBT community to express that sexuality publicly. This is a crucial distinction. Very little of what takes place in the raunchier segments of the LGBT community is exclusive to it. Heterosexuals have engaged in these acts and expressions throughout human history, but social norms kept those expressions and acts outside of the acceptable cultural mainstream. LGBTers are neither unique nor more radical for having interest in these subjects.

What changed was that LGBTers decided to throw off the remnants of Victorianesque shame that clung to American cultural sexuality through the 1950s and early 60s. Heterosexual culture, as is the pattern, has quickly followed suit. Read any magazine geared towards heterosexual relationships and sexuality, and you will find the vestiges of oppressive respectability cast off, with straight men and women now behaving and thinking publicly in ways that were once seen as the province of those radical queers - particularly gay males.

Straight people *gasp* like sex, too. Furthermore, lots of straights like kinky sex. They have fetishes. They have "radical" interests that are actually fairly common, much to the point that all of it is somewhat boring.

The idea that LGBT ideas and expressions are radical or "anti-assimilationist" is an old canard that has been used by right-wingers and unfortunately adopted by a few radical queer theorists to paint LGBTers as fundamentally different and separate from the rest of the human race. Rather than seeing LGBTers as more similar than different, we were seen as deviants and mentally ill, fundamentally disordered and distinct in a way that justified different treatment and standards.

Attitudes like the one expressed in this essay cement these perceptions by painting the LGBT community's sexual expression as deviant, radical, different from straight people, unusual, abnormal. It's not. Any cursory reading of, say, a Dan Savage column will reveal a world of perfectly normal straight "freaks" out there, guy and girl alike.

This essay's attitude is an anachronism at best. It's a bit like hearing the word "colored" to describe African-American culture. Yes, people used to think that way and express certain attitudes. And it might even have been the mainstream way of thinking and expressing these attitudes. But that time is past. LGBT sexuality and expression aren't radical. And it isn't anti-assimilationist.

It's a liberation, one that younger generations of heterosexuals are now happily participating in. Had this been written 20 years ago, no one would have really lifted an eyebrow. But in 2011, attitudes like the ones expressed in the essay and some of the responses returns the LGBT community to a place where we are not a part of the human experience but an Other.

This is dangerous and has consequences. These attitudes deserve history's dustbin, and not a moment too soon.
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cate94 Donating Member (573 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Thank you, Prism.
Your objections are stated perfectly and I agree with you 100%.
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Rowdyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
26. I've been to 4 or 5 Southern Decadence parades in New Orleans (including last years)....
Decadence isn't exactly a "gay pride" parade but it is gay and overtly sexual. None of the participants I remember have ever seemed to fit the definition of radical, or held signs like those you reference. I suppose the participants could generally be classified as "assimilationists" however I'm sure some of them would have argued that point. Perhaps the locale of New Orleans with its hedonistic attitude and coming as the climax (excuse the pun) of 4 days of non-stop celebrating would explain this particular parade's lack of stridency.

Regardless, sounds like an interesting topic.
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mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 11:39 PM
Response to Original message
33. sounds a little way out to me
I have been to many a pride parade and particpated in many Gay actions, I have never thought of myself as an assimilationist,nor as a conservative, tho I married when I was able to. The radicals you point to are generally not numerous enough to stage a parade(maybe a fair in some alley off Folsom St in SF)I support a very radical agenda including civil disobedience, sit ins , disruption, street theater and more. Sex is not the way to win a revolution and it sounded a bit gross to me to behave like that. I have been jailed for demonstrating in public,but I kept my clothing on. These exhibitionists you speak of are not revolutionaries, any more than I am a conservative.
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-11 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
36. you sound young. when you are 19 you want to stand out for you radical sexuality
when you are 32 and have been in a monogamous relationship for 5 years you want rights.

i am not disparaging you, just telling you that youth has different priority for its expressions, than adults do
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marginlized Donating Member (219 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-11 03:29 PM
Response to Original message
37. Curious
I’m just curious, are the ideas expressed in your essay your’s, or are they based on some reading assignments? If you had sources from your class, what were they? I’ve been to quite a few pride events, starting in 1972, and have never seen anything like what you describe.

Even during my one day at the Dore Alley - about as radical as you can get - I didn’t see anyone having sex, unless you count being whipped as public sex. Plenty of nudity, yes, and all manner of raunchy costume, of course. But then I wasn’t there for the evening. And, it’s funny, but these days I think there are more heterosexuals at Folsom Street than gays and lesbians.

But since when is parading in silly costumes “radical”? Mummers have been at it since the 17th Century?! Carnival and Fat Tuesday aren’t new.

To second the point a prior poster made, I don’t think gay pride events are breaking new ground. The part that’s upsetting the horses, as always, is the gay part.
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Uta Donating Member (110 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-11 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. +++++++++! nt
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Betty Karlson Donating Member (902 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-11 07:28 AM
Response to Original message
39. Blatant illusion of a binary opposition
Since gay and straight are not always each other's opposite, emphasizing the opposition is a bit childish. Even the challenge to the foundation of a hetero-normative (and probably male heteronormative) society can be done without this illusion of the exclusive opposition of gay and straight.

Creation is diverse. Embrace it. Don't divide it.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-11 09:03 AM
Response to Original message
40. Where did you find all this? I've never seen anything like this at Pride.
I'm sure that extreme sexuality can be found anywhere. Why did you decide to focus on the LGBTQ community?
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