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davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-05 12:22 PM
Original message
Diocese dissolves church that protested gay bishop
http://www.advocate.com/news_detail_ektid22758.asp

Rochester, N.Y.'s Episcopal diocese has agreed to dissolve All Saints Episcopal Church in Irondequoit and transfer its property and other assets to diocese trustees. A majority of more than 200 delegates at a Rochester diocesan convention cast a voice vote Saturday to end their relationship with All Saints. "It is so ordered," Bishop Jack McKelvey said.

The church had refused to pay more than $16,000 it owed the diocese because it believes the diocese and the Episcopal Church of the USA shouldn't have supported the 2003 ordination of gay bishop V. Gene Robinson in New Hampshire or given individual dioceses the right to decide whether to bless same-sex unions.

The pastor at All Saints, the Reverend David Harnish, remains a priest in good standing with the diocese but has chosen to remain with All Saints. The church planned to hold a 10 a.m. service Sunday. It was unclear how quickly the diocese will move to transfer the property.
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TallahasseeGrannie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-05 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
1. I'm assuming this is the first case of its kind?
This is very interesting to me because in Tallahassee a number of the Episcopal churches now claim to be "Anglican" and I am wondering what action the diocese will take regarding the assets.
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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-05 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. All Episcopalians vow an oath of obedience re. doctrine and church order
It is included in the confirmation vows, and reiterated in the ordination ritual. Those who violate that vow -- by, say, refusing to recognize the acts of the General Convention -- are technically apostate.

In the case of All Saints, the entire parish was apostate for not paying it's debts to the diocese and for not acknowledging the lawful appointment and valid consecration of Gene Robertson as bishop. The diocesan convention had no choice but to disband the parish.

As for the "Anglican" churches in Tallahassee, the Episcopal Church (like many denominations) is set up so that the local parishes are the titular owner of church property. In their charters, however, parishes are required to turn over all property to the diocese if they disband or otherwise cease to exist as a parish. A case could be made -- and probably will at the next diocesan convention -- that these break-aways stole church property when they split from the Episcopal Church and did not sign over title.
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TallahasseeGrannie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-05 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. What a huge mess
the biggest mother church (meaning the first church in the Diocese of FL, not speaking slang!) has lost its staff, vestry and most of the congregation and it is a lovely old church, downtown, and I have heard rumor that if they don't get enough money to run that the diocese will chair the doors. Very sad as there are many memories in that building.

You know, I don't remember that vow! But I was very busy dreaming about my first kiss which had been the night before. Eighth grade: glad it is over! That was up in NJ. My parents are interred in that church.
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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-05 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Thanks for speaking up
I looked through the Book of Common Prayer and found I was misremembering the confirmation service (what can I say, it was a few years ago.)

Among the vows made at Confirmation, found on page 417:

Bishop Will you seek and serve Christ in all persons, loving your neighbor as yourself?

People I will, with God's help.

Bishop Will you strive for justice and peace among all people, and respect the dignity of every human being?

People I will, with God's help.


I'm pretty sure that the attitude of the splitters violates these two vows.

As for ordination, the case is much, much clearer. From the rite of ordination of a deacon, pages 538-539 (emphasis not in original):

The Bishops say to the ordinand

Will you be loyal to the doctrine, discipline, and worship of
Christ as this Church has received them? And will you, in
accordance with the canons of this Church, obey your bishop
and other ministers who may have authority over you and
your work?

Answer

I am willing and ready to do so; and I solemnly declare that I
do believe the Holy Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments to
be the Word of God, and to contain all things necessary to
salvation; and I do solemnly engage to conform to the doctrine,
discipline, and worship of The Episcopal Church.


The Ordinand then signs the above Declaration in the sight of all
present.


This same vow, along with signing it as a declaration, is made when a deacon is ordained a priest. A nearly identical vow is made when a priest is consecrated a bishop. Clergy that lead their parishes away from the Episcopal Church and bishops that allow such parishes to retain church participation or who themselves have split are in clear violation of their vows.
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Fenris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-05 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
2. The Episcopal Church of the USA has a team of lawyers on stand-by
They're preparing to seize church property belonging to any forthcoming breakaway congregations. Expect more of this in the coming months.
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davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-05 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. good for them
bring on the schism
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