Question about "choosing" to be gay

Regarding those who cling to the goofy idea that people "choose" to be gay, do they suggest that the "choice" occurs when you "choose" to prefer one sex instead of another, or when you "choose" to act on that preference?

FWIW, I'm straight, but I can't for the life of me remember when I "chose" to be straight. I remember that, when I was 4, I knew that I liked Nicole in a way different from how I liked Brian, but there was no "choice" involved…

I never chose to be straight, I just always was. Why on earth would people think being gay is different?

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=yX1W9E8CuB&isbn=0060571462&itm=1

I just got a copy of When I Knew after seeing it talked about on Oprah - it really does away with the myth of "Choice". Do you think the local high schools would take a copy as a donation?

"When I Knew is a collection of smart, hilarious, and often poignant stories about that revelation for all gay men and women: when they first knew. In this gorgeously illustrated, cleverly designed, and colorful book, acclaimed fashion and celeb-rity photographer Robert Trachtenberg brings humor and style to the EUREKA! moments..."

I also think the homophobia is related to men that love their own penis so much that they think all other men must covet it too. ;)

That would explain why they think it's a choice,
because to them it is a choice?

But if I had a choice I would be married to a podiatrist, live on Long Island and spend my time doing lunch.

Any one know any lesbian poditrists in Austin? I am willing to compromise.

I don't know any podiatrists in Austin, but when I lived there a homeless guy on Guadalupe asked me to pull his tooth for him. He even had his own pliers.

Oh, well. I guess I was never meant to be a podiatrist's wife.

You probably don't want someone whose hands reek of everybody's feet anyway.

I want someone reeking of money. :)

Just go break up Jodie and Cyndney (or however she spells it) -- except you'll have to go back in the closet, and raise Jodie's kids. Oh, well... Kelly MacGillis might be single again -- just check to be sure that her restaurant is in the black first.

And... welcome to DU, LittleOne! :hi:

I would raise Jodie's kids all day long if that is what it would take. :)

Except the only way you'll be allowed to marry with the blessing of the church (Our Lady Queen of Stilettos, in WeHo) is if you promise to make her come out of the freaking closet and make life a little easier on the rest of us.

If you try to turn the choosing around for straight peolple, ask them when did you choose to be straight then it makes little sense that we choose our orientation. But if you don't think homosexuality is a normal occurance in life then it makes perfect sense that you would never choose to be straight because you are suppossed to be that way.

I think those who cling to the choosing idea focus on the fact that people choose to be gay when they harbor thoughts of same sex relations...that way they can say that prayer and god's healing can keep you from thinking those bad thoughts--makes homosexuality look like a disease that can be cured.

To them, hetero is the default or "correct" orientation, so if you don't share that orientation, then you must at some time have chosen to diverge from it.

At its root, I suppose, part of that brand of homophobia stems from the narcissistic inability to realize that one's own view/position/orientation is not the "correct" one, no matter how many happen to share it.

... is that the straight folks who believe being gay is a choice think of it in their own terms. If they were to engage in same-sex behavior it would have to be a choice. They are incapable of looking beyond that to the fact that, just as heterosexuality comes naturally to them, homosexuality comes just as naturally to us.

And then you have the religious fanatics who insist that God made men to be with women. For them accepting that being gay is "natural" can only lead them to two conclusions:

1. God must be fallible (and therefore, flawed and imperfect) if he allowed a mistake like "homos" in his creation, or

2. God really doesn't hate gays as much as we're lead to believe because he made them, so all these preachers have been wrong all these years.

So it just becomes easier for them to believe that being gay is a "choice" because they don't have to question God's intent that way.

If I hear the expression "homosexual lifestyle" one more time. What the heck is a "homosexual lifestyle"? And if there is such a thing as a "homosexual lifestyle" then can someone please explain what a "heterosexual lifestyle" is? I have a straight sister and a straight brother and their "lifestyles" are polar opposites.

For them, it is the choice to have sex with the same sex that "makes you gay". It isn't about the attraction. For them, that part is irrelevant. You can be an upright, perfectly decent celibate bachelor for your whole life and not run afoul of their morality. When I came out, my grandmother, in fact, advocated this course for me.

Really, when I came out, my saying "I'm gay" was interpreted by my family as "he has had sex with men"... which was true, but wasn't how I meant it when I said it. When I said it, I meant that I was attracted to men, with no revelations or hints about my sexual history or otherwise. But, that isn't how they interpreted it. Those who focus on the choice issue focus on the act, not the underlying reasons for why that act happened.

I think that's a big part of the reason a lot us (lesbians, anyway; I don't think most gay men see it the same way) are so reluctant to bring somebody out. Aside from all the other (irrelevant) reasons, there's the very real likelihood that as soon as their family learns of your existence, YOU have MADE their little precious GAY.

And no matter how well they adjust to and/or accept Precious' gayness, there will always be that feeling that it was YOUR FAULT.

Ergo, whenever I see someone argue that gayness is a choice or a lifestyle, that person is immediately - in my mind - at least bisexual.

...that we had no choice to be gay then jump on the idea that we choose to act on our "unnatural desires." Where they go from their depends on where they're coming from: If it's "faith"-based, then we're either being tested by God (and failing), or we're just chock full o' demons; if they think they're being cagey by approaching it from the (debunked) "scientific" P.O.V., then we're mentally ill. Either way, to them we're dangerous.

P.S. I knew when I was two -- from the moment I saw the footage of the Beatles setting foot on U.S. soil for the first time -- that I wanted to be one of the Beatles. Why? Because of the way teenage girls reacted to them. I certainly couldn't articulate what it all meant, but inside myself, I knew exactly what it all meant: I wanted girls to love me, too. Anything else was unnatural.

I knew you had to be one of my five self-professed lovers in the poll I posted last week! ;)

Sometimes I think, I didn't get the whole package

Just don't tell foreigncorrespondent!

mitch, since when have you ever been so literal? LOL

the other day, and it looks as if I'm suffering from Gay-loss

Just as historically many gay individuals choose to live a heterolifestyle. We can presume that there is a probably an extremely small number of individuals who do the reverse. Hence statistically there could be a individual who claims to be a "ex-gay" and really is telling the truth, sort of.
The risk is that while these individuals do exist. The right holds them up as examples of all gay individuals.

It's clear that the Right loves holding up examples that support their latest bigoted cause, no matter how anecdotal or apocryphal. At the same time, the love dismissing any example that disproves their view, no matter how sound or thoroughly confirmed.

I imagine that someone who went through a period of "experimentation" would, after exiting that period, be considered to have been "cured" of gayness.

How odd that when people exit the fog of fundamentalism, it's implied that they've somehow fallen from Grace, rather than having been cured of insanity.

Thanks for the input!

not an orientation.

So, to answer your question they would say that you chose to be gay when you engaged in your first gay sex act.

Why else would they think someone else "chose" to be gay unless at some point in their lives they decided, "I'm going to try and only have heterosexual sex."

what happens is that as a man ages and his sex drive diminishes, all sexual desire diminishes with it, for not just gay sex but heterosexual sex, as well.

So the only thing achieved by suppressing such desires is, well, frustration of those desires.

So if sexual frustration is defined as a moral good, then you've done good. If, on the other hand, you believe that God gave you your sexual orientation, then it's a perversion of natural law to deny expression of gay desires.

A dictionary is a book with definitions of words in it. If those people would just open the book up and look up these words:

homosexual
heterosexual
bisexual
and most definitely one of my pet peeves could be greatly diminished if they would look up the definition of the word:
pedophile

then they would know the difference and be a tiny little bit educated about what they are talking about.

It's like this. There is no choice for heteros or homos. Some people can argue that bisexual people have a choice, but I wouldn't. They like who they like at the time. That's it. No choice about it.

My challenge to the "choice" believing people would be to ask only heterosexual people if they "chose" to fall in love or even be attracted to whoever they are with or have been with. Ask them to explain their reasons why they are attracted to those certain people. They won't be able to give any good answers. They are idiots. Fuck 'em.