Get a clue, Deborah Messing...!

I heard her say tonight, that Will & Grace was the first television show to feature a gay character in a leading role. I guess she missed Ellen... :eyes:

While I know Ellen's show didn't start that way, it ended that way and will go down in history as the first. If I'm wrong, I'm open to correction--but I'm a bit tired of the egotism of Messing regarding her show.

If there had not been an Ellen, there would not have been a Will & Grace.

in Love, Sidney - 1981

I watched that show when I was a little girl! :wow: Forgive my faux pas, friends, and thank you for the correction!

:hi:

The series was based on a book, and the character of Sydney was openly gay in the book. In the series, however, the subject of Sydney's sexuality was never, ever openly broached. He might indeed have been gay, but you would never know it.

I would say that "Love, Sydney" does not count as a show with an openly gay lead, as the character was forced very firmly and very deeply into the closet.

I was so young when that show was on air--I don't recall a great deal about it. Isn't it a shame that until Will & Grace, Hollywood has been so eager to put gay characters in the closet?

For me it is as insulting as what they used to do (and still do to a degree) in regard to characters of color. I cringe watching old westerns where some caucasian portrayed a native american. :scared:

Billy Crystal's characeter on "Soap", too.

He was the first, unless I am mistaken.

Was that before or after Love, Sydney?

ran from 1977 to 1981. It was an ensemble piece, where all the performers acted as co-leads. Billy's character had a relationship with a real-life Olympic pole vaulting star whose name I am forgetting now.

:hi:

and they also eventually sanitized the character by having him turn "not gay." :wtf: Which probably has fed into the psyches of many a straight woman that thought they could just love a gay man enough to make him straight. :P

:rofl:

It could happen. Even so, it certainly didn't sound right.

..seemed pretty gay, too. :-)

;)

In addition to Paul Lynde's Uncle Arthur there was one of the Darrens, Anges Moorehead (Endora) and Doctor Bombay.

Sheesh! I never missed that show as a kid. Forget the arguments over "choice vs. nature." Watching "Bewitched" turned me gay! :rofl:

:rofl::rofl:

we're talking 1972-73 here!

on edit: most popular character on the show. :hi:

in terms of U.S. programs, although she's wrong on that front too.

I do believe Billy Crystal's role on Soap was the first.

Love, Sydney was 1981.

But I don't know if we can count Soap or not... Didn't the Billy Crystal character "reform" and eventually fell in love with and marry a woman? :eyes: They sanitized if in a way they felt was palatable. Very Hollywood.

in the Wikipedia article for Soap, it says: "Soap is commonly mistaken for the first series to include a sustained gay character, but at least two other series, 1972's The Corner Bar and 1976's The Nancy Walker Show, preceded it."

I vaguely recall the Nancy Walker show--hearing of it at least. I don't remember The Corner Bar, but I was very, very young, so I probably wouldn't. Thanks for the info--stevie! :hi:

I was just a young schoolkid but had him figured out. Just because he didnt scream "I'm gay" on camera like Jack didnt mean we weren't savvy enough to know the score.

Why do you think the silly robot would flail its arms and screech "Danger, Will Robinson! Danger!" whenever Dr. Smith was around? ;-)

:rofl:

and married for a loooooong time up until his death. Very good actor!

Or "is". I think he's still around?

http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~wyatt/tv-char1970s.html

this is hilarious:
"All In The Family (sitcom) CBS 1971-1979

Beverly La Salle 1976-1977 (Lori Shannon ) female impersonator
Archie Bunker performed mouth-to-mouth resuscitation on a woman passed out in the back of his cab. Beverly turned out to be a man, and made two other visits to the Bunker household. (Episodes "113. Archie the Hero", "140. Beverly Rides Again", and "168. Edith's Crisis of Faith".)

apparently this list counts if the character was on three or more episodes

but like you said, she wasn't around for a long time. :shrug:

Beverly is murdered and Edith questions God. Also Edith has a lesbian aunt pass away and ends up letting the partner inherit.

I recall that one. I saw it again as an adult and was so impressed by the fact that this was a topic that Norman Lear was open to exploring. I'm a bit vague on the details, didn't Archie want Edith to take the item so he could sell it?

Eventually he relented when Edit convinced him it would be wrong to do so. The thing about that show was that Archie was redeemable which was unusual for a person like him.

Dr. Quest and his big blond bodyguard, Race Bannon.
Please and I am straight too .... but that show was P.D.G.
Pretty Damn Gay

He's based on Peter Graves from the original MI. Whom I also had a crush on.

But Johnny Quest wasn't as gay as Space Ghost.

gay friend, set in philadelphia, in a bar owned by the brothers? (believe it was right around the time of iran-contra)

Three brothers ... one was gay and had a flamboyantly gay friend named Donald who was a sort of proto-Jack McFarland.

Wasn't it one of the first cable shows? I didn't see it during it's original run--I caught it late at night, in syndication, and wondered why I'd never seen it before as I enjoyed the show. Every now and then I'll see an actor from the show on something else and remember it...

The Will and Grace finale was TERRIBLE. Bizarre and ludicrous. The only great part was the singing duet between Megan Mullally and Sean Hayes.

they should have ended it before now? Maybe that's why it sucked, as they didn't have many options of how to end it--they've done everything.

I loved the duet--so cool that they gave Megan an opportunity to show off her voice. ;)I didn't know Sean could sing, so it was nice to hear him, too!

It just feels like they ended it without any plan. The story didn't have any arc that led to a natural conclusion. Instead they invented some phony conflict at the last minute and then *flash* it's two years later. And then their kids getting married? Karen losing her money for no apparent reason? Silly.

and what was the deal with Rosario? I haven't seen her in weeks, and then they trot her out for the last episode?

...and Jack just hooking up with the guy for money, then he dies? :shrug:

... with Paul Lynde in the center square?

He was once asked why motorcyclists wear leather. His response: "Because chiffon wrinkles."

:rofl::rofl: Paul Lynde--how I miss him! :rofl::rofl:

Funniest. man. ever.

Question: When a ship is going down at sea, what command does the Captain give after the women and children are loaded into the lifeboats?

Paul Lynde: Full speed ahead.

Will and Grace WAS the first to feature a gay or lesbian as the lead from the beginning.

Ellen (whom I love) was in the closet for the first seasons - doubtful the show would have aired in the beginning if Ellen was openly gay in the show.

America's first gay couple. ;)

I just remembered this. It was 1994, doesn't that beat W&G? Yes, Danes played the lead but her two friends figured prominently, kind of like Jack and Karen:


"Enrique "Rickie" Vasquez, played by Wilson Cruz, is Rayanne Graff's other best friend. He is a gay Hispanic fifteen year old boy raised by his uncle who physically abuses him. In 1994, when most of the show takes place, Rickie is as "out" as a teenager could be in his circumstances. When his uncle kicks him out of home, he is fostered by English teacher Richard Katimski (who is also gay and becomes a mentor to Rickie) and his partner."

Wow that is bringing back memories, I remember that episode precisely, I cried.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_So-Called_Life

(Not that I care either way, I love, love, love Deborah Messing...I think she is comic godhead, but I just thought about MSCL and thought I would mention it.)

I didn't look at it this way, and it is an important distinction. :hi:

on your PBS stations? Out of Toronto.

If you didn't see it, you should buy it.

"One of the gutsiest shows on television."
- Los Angeles Times
"An unflinching look at contemporary teenage life."
-- New York Daily News
"It's a revelation. 10 (out of a possible 10)."
- Spin magazine review of the last 25 years of teen entertainment, February 1999

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009OL934/102-5060603-9713754?v=glance&n=130

Degrassi Junior High - Season 3 (1989)

Degrassi Junior High: Season 3 represents the final year in the life of the 1980s series, popular in Canada and on American cable and public television channels.
(It then followed the characters to Degrassi High for a couple of years.)

32. He Ain't Heavy
Snake is excited when his older brother comes to visit for a couple of days. He is later shocked when his brother announces that he is gay. Snake doesn't know how to deal with his brother's revelation. As he tries to come to terms with this news, Snake's brother announces that their parents have kicked him out of the house after he tells them his news.

http://shop.wgbh.org/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=11812&storeId=11051&catalogId=10051&langId=-1

Rumor Has It: Sometimes it's tough to get a straight answer. Kathleen is spreading rumors that Ms. Avery is gay which ultimately causes Caitlin to question her own sexuality.

And that PBS station is recommending the series for kids in grades 4+. Do the fundies know?


And the next generation is here:

http://www.afterelton.com/TV/2006/4/degrassi.html

Degrassi: The Next Generation:
Television's Best Portrayal of Gay Teens
by Jake Surette, April 24, 2006

The show's treatment of the gay characters avoids being heavy handed or reducing their characters to little more than clichéd archetypes, such as the ‘tragic' one, or the ‘funny side kick', or the ‘bitchy' one. Nor are these characters just the colourful friends and unpaid therapists of the straight girl. As much as we all love the antics of Jack on Will and Grace, Degrassi has a broader vision, less about the stereotype and more about the realities of growing up gay. This depiction is certainly pink, but without being rose colored.

...in the 2004 primaries.

Enough said. ;)