Is anyone else as unhappy as me about the ongoing homophobia @ DU?

I really feel like every few weeks DU (especially GD where I hang out a lot) becomes quite a hostile environment. Sure, it's always republicans who the slurs are addressed to but it still hurts me the same. As much as I love DU sometimes I wonder if it's not time to go someplace else that's just more friendly to people like me.

extremely homophobic as well as being a sociopathic murderer who was such a loser even a criminal like Fidel had to finally dump him?

using that icon does not necessarily mean people are homophobic, but why glorify a scumbag like that who represents gay bashing at its worst?

Msongs
www.msongs.com/political-shirts.htm

Though, I suppose it shouln't surprise me to hear that he was homophobic considering the time period and culture.

He advocated death for "sodomy." Yes, Che and other leftists of his era were largely anti-gay, but so were almost all organized political forces in the world. To condemn them out of hand for it is to ignore the march of history. That Fidel has reformed his anti-gay views shows that evolution does take place.

... points, if memory serves. ( No, I wasn't around back then but I remember READING about it when I was in high school... during Chester A. Arthur's second term.)

all of it. And I am not glbt but still it rankles. Sometimes people post without thought, sometimes with thought. Sometimes I wish I were a moderator.

as one that alerts whenever I see a post that is inappropriate and offensive to any group of human beings.

What really pisses me off are the DU'ers that seem to think that they, in all of their hetero, caucasian, male or female wisdom can tell those of us that know discrimination first hand, what does or does not deem bigotry.

Yeah...right. :eyes:

Sometimes I wish I were a moderator.

I think everyone does at one time or another. But there is a reason that we can't click and make someone go away. We wouldn't find the boards very interesting if we could.

A BBS can't be all things to all people. LiveJournal is for giggling with your friends, swapping recipes, and deciding whether John Stamos is still hot. Political BBSes are for arguing. Which makes it all the more amasing that an outhouse like Free Republic is still in business. Don't they ever get tired of agreeing with each other?

Can you point to an example?

Edit: I may have seen an isolated example here and there, but nothing I would classify as "ongoing".

...in the archives do you want to go?

screw it

there are just as many bigots on here as in the real world

:hi:

Especially after today.

that would be a rule violation, but I'm referring to threads that say things like "So & so is gay" when they have no evidence whatsoever of that. Then they try to make out like what they're really bothered by is some sort of mythical hypocrisy.

In this news cycle the issue seems to be people very confused by whether it's Foley's pedophelia that bothers them or his homosexuality.

I think you're being rather paranoid. By and large DU is one of the most tolerant places you'll ever meet, and when someone does say something that's actually wrong, they get slapped down pretty fast. I doubt anybody who posts regularly here thinks it's at all bad to be gay, and I don't see how posts suggesting that a particular person/Republican is covertly gay somehow demeans gay people as a whole. (Save for the idea that gay people include some Republicans, but that's a curse of the whole species.)

me personally and as far as the regular smack down...well, I and a number of others do call them on it, yet time after time the subject is brought back. I'm tired of it and I can't help but feel that the environment here is somewhat hostile toward gays.

"I don't see how posts suggesting that a particular person/Republican is covertly gay somehow demeans gay people as a whole"

Never been called a faggot? Or Queer? When a DUer says Bush or Rove or Wolf Blitzer is gay with ZERO evidence, that's called a slur. I honestly don't know how to make it clearer to people.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2862716

Check out the post wherein Foley is listed as "gay" in the same breath as "hypocritical" and "sexual predator", as if being gay is a terrible thing equal to either one of those things.

It exists. It's not paranoia.

Maybe then you will see what there is to see.

here at DU, is below the surface and implied by tone and other things. just because there aren't blatant threads screeching about queers and fags doesn't mean it isn't bubbling below the surface.We, on this thread who agree it is here, are NOT having a mass hallucination.

But I see it differently. You see, Foley's pedophilia isn't an issue because it doesn't exist except in the colloquial definition of the term. But people seem to unconcerned and unwilling to approach this issue rationally and acknowledge the difference between the clinical definition and the colloquial definition and the drastic difference in the severity of the consequences. Even at Americagblog, John Aravosis always calls these teenagers "children". But I work in a psychiatric hospital in the "Child and Adolescent Psychiatry" department. There's a significant issue here but because Foley is a Republican, because we finally have a sex scandal, because an election is coming up, because we finally have something that seems to resonate with the homophobic backwash, we seem to concluded that it's the scandal itself that's more important to keep going whether or not the charges are accurate as long as they're awful.

Make no mistake, it's homophobia that gives this scandal legs and we're leveraging their homophobia and hatred for all we can because it's politically bad for them. No, we're not homophobic ourselves, but whipping the Republican faithful into a disgusted homophobic frenzy keeps them home on election day, by all means, it seems most of us, even most of us gay people, turn a blind eye how this might affect us after the election.

It is(often) well meaning people calling political enemies "Gay" , just to smear them, like, "Geo Bush is Gay" Condi is gay , etc. . Some days it seems everyone we hate is a closet gay waiting to be outed. Annoys the shit outta me.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

anti-gays. Of course, I don't read everything and if the people sound too anti-whatever, I just ignore the post. In the case of Foley, he's also a pedophile - if not totally a pedophile. That is one group I really have no use for. Everyone else I believe have equal rights.

but that's about all I've seen, not having been in every thread. Can you be more specific?

I think republicans are INTENTIONALLY confusing the issue in regards to Foley, but I haven't seen much of that here...but since I am not glbt, I might not be as sensitive to it as I should be.

to the extent that whatever it is that is happening, I apologize on behalf of all the other folk.

:hug:

where I try (poorly) to explain what I mean. :)

not sure about the "so and so's gay" part , but the confusing sexual predation with homosexuality part I've seen, and I attribute that to benign ignorance, mainly, but hey! what do I know?

People are also confusing "pedophile" with "sexual predation". Clearly, I would not be surprised if Foley is also a pedophile, but that's not whats been uncovered at this point, maybe with more investigation.

only that a 50 something man is trying to hook up with teeangers. Straight/gay that is the PROBLEM. Let Foley find a partner over the age of consent. Let the teeagers find a partner more their own age.

From the mother of a 20 something Lesbian daughter who dates women her own age

but in all honesty, it's the steady diet of these type of posts that just utterly de-motivates me from wanting to be here sometimes.

good grief - I really think it's not the fact that it happened but the fact that Hastert knew about it and covered it up that is the more outrageous thing about this party.

And it's also a soft spot. If we can't rip their gizzard out using Hastert's lies to get them to eat their own, then we deserve the republicans.

Hastert covered this up. Saying he's sorry is not enough. Whether it's illegal or not at the end of the day, it was a middle aged man acting inappropriately and with all impropriety possible, and Hastert knew it and Hastert covered it up. The saying in government is "the appearance of impropriety is equally as damaging as impropriety itself", but apparently not where republicans are concerned.

That the point we have to nail straight into their shriveled black little hearts.

Hence why I am going through a fairly quiet period on DU.

I get tired of having the same arguments with the same people over and over again.

'repeat offenders' as well. Sounds like you and I are of similar minds about this.

:hug:

The bottom line for a few is politics (you have to break some eggs to make an omelet).

But, I think for most of us it's not about homophobia; it's about hypocrisy and rule of law.

As an African American sometimes I have taken such a beating from so called liberals that I ALMOST want to become an Independent.

FEAR not!
Be brave!

Stay and educate those of us who do not understand the issues that are near and dear to you!
Stay!

I'm sorry that you've experienced racism, and even more sorry that it came from people on the liberal side of the spectrum. We like to feel that our side is above that sort of thing, so I guess that's why it hurts more.

:hi:

and understand that unless someone has LIVED in the shoes that you live in, their quick witted opinions are usually not compassionate.

It does sting a lot but I will still keep educating.

Peace!

Well, one example I saw was that there were attempts to make it an issue that Crist, the Repub candidate for FL Governor, is supposed to be gay. As Democrats, we shouldn't go that way.

For what it's worth, I'm glad and proud that liberals are far more likely to accept "gays" and support their rights than those on the right.
I wouldn't want to be in a party that, directly or not, discriminates against other people based on their race or because they are "homosexuals".

It makes me sick!

Solidarity, comrade!

I already seem to have unwittingly stumbled across homophobes and I have to say that I am terribly dissapointed. I didn't think that I'd see some guy's "feeling" that someone is gay (based solely on his appearance) being promoted as evidence that the 'someone' is gay, and I didn't think I'd see this being presented as semi-factual and then having such a ludicrous suggestion going unchallenged on the basis of the poster's "gaydar".

Apparently, I was wrong. I am not impressed.

(I forgot to welcome you earlier. I was too busy debating you!) :hi:

:hi:

Hey, that's right. I think you were the first person I got into a discussion with here. Cool.

assumptions about abstracts.

Especially on a public forum - who knows or cares if you have two nostrils or five; whether your mating habits involve ceremonial buttock-shaving or mutual genital stimulation, or whether you even have genitals.

What is the matter with people and their assumptions? Just a handle to assume you can judge someone with. If it's abstract, what does it matter? Do these same people get resentful of asexual people? You would think as long as they believe they have a right to tell you how and when and with whom to reproduce that people who don't seek sex at all would get the same amount of criticism.

I say we make the bastards PROVE they're straight. And until they do we invite them to have a great big steaming cup of STFU.

that so many people make assumptions about abstracts. And then they those flimsy grounds as the basis upon which to judge anything and everything about a person that isn't "like them". I simply don't understand that kind of "logic".

I like your suggestion about making people PROVE they're straight and what kind of refreshment to offer them in the interim :)

And I love your user name, by the way. Now, I'm wondering whether it stems from you being a latin fan, a legal scholar, a member of a sui generis group, or simply being one of a kind. Intriguing.

Homophobia, sexism, racism...par for the course on DU but it's gotten really bad as late.

I've resigned myself to the belief that there is a large (or maybe just extremely vocal) contingent of straight white males on DU who are blind to their privilege and simply will not stand for anyone pointing it out.

we just have to stay up in their faces; cause I don't think there's anybody here on DU who's asking anyone's permission to be here.

They're really a bunch of wussies when you challenge them. Plus they're also entitled when it comes to owning their women, owning their jobs, owning their other hypocrisies, while telling you they're all for social justice and raising the minimum wage and that's what makes them "real" democrats. Puhleeze.

Don't throw out those bad apples! Let's just turn 'em into apple sauce.

Especially when they start throwing out right wing talking points to defend it. :puke:

Aw hell, you know I'm sick and tired of it but I couldn't stop being uppity even if I wanted to, that's just how I was raised. :D

to their privilege. At least not from what I've seen. They totally get that. What pisses me off is the way they DEFEND their privilege and the entities that deny equal rights to the discriminated. I've seen far too many posts here that justify their privilege and superiority based on meritocracy and the horrors of affirmative action.

They seem to be saying,"...How dare those women, brown men and gays want to be equal when they so obviously aren't as good as me?" Then they go through all the motions of defending stereotypes and sharing how they knew this black guy, or some chick, or some gay that fit their stereotypes. :eyes: (their words not mine...).

:mad::grr::puke:

:hi: Chovexani!

I used to be able to just write it off as freepers showing their true colors. But it's too widespread now. There's a sickness among some so-called progressives and the patients are in some serious denial.

My favorite hobby is busting stereotypes. I remember one awful, awful thread from a while back where someone with good intentions wanted to start a dialogue on how to get more people of color on DU and I had to seriously explain to someone that all black people didn't live in "da hood" and not have computers. :banghead:

Man I need to just chill out with a nice cup of chai. :hug:

We're all Democrats here. We're all supposed to be disdainful and angry at the Republicans and what they stand for. The last time I checked, the Republican Party is pushing a virulently anti-GLBT agenda.

So, a gay man such as myself would expect all of us here to be AGAINST what the Republicans stand for and support full equality for all Americans...including us GLBT folk.

But I have to tell you...being in GD lately is like having a bucket of cold water splashed on me. There IS homophobia here...and some of it isn't really subtle. Yes...you put it exactly right. It does hurt.

You're a good guy, LeftCoast. And it would upset me if you left DU.

like they did during the Hezbollah post wars, which came on the tail end of Mel Gibson's antics. GD was very ugly at that time and I was happy to see that there was a very strict rule put in place and enforced---it cut down on a LOT of the bigoted postings.

It's very hurtful to see a lot of this stuff. It's also stressful, as one that tends to jump into the fray to defend--you can only do so much of that before you are completely worn out. :(

Mostly I've seen transgender phobia. Not a lot of that either. I just go about as if nobody's homophobic here. Sometimes women will post, for instance, how handsome Keith Olbermann is, and I'll enthusiastically agree. If they don't like it or it makes them uncomfortable, tough. I've seen bad behavior of all stripes here, unfortunately, and I was shocked at first, thinking that a liberal forum would attract enlightened people, but it just goes to show you how much we have still to learn. Just educate when you can, avoid when you can't.

Yes, of course there's homophobia on DU. There are a wide range of posters on this forum and that diversity will always include people who are either ignorant or hostile to any variety of ideas or minorities. There is no completely "safe" space on an internet forum; the best you can hope for is a place where you don't have to fight those battles as often.

On a few occasions I've had my own message misinterpreted as homophobic just because I don't tiptoe around some of the seamier sides of gay life. What seems to me to be an offhand reference to the realities of the gay subculture as I've experienced it, strikes other people as homophobic just because it's a criticism.

I understand your feeling this way. There've been times I've taken extended breaks from DU or merely hung out on the periphery, visiting sub-forums. Anyone that knows discrimination on a personal level recognizes the hideous posts for what they are--ignorance, fear and hatred.

Be encouraged--we need people like you to stay and speak out against it. If you don't, the Democratic party and forums representative of progressives will always have Caucasian males speaking for what's best for us--and telling us what is or is not bigotry (as if they would recognize it, if it bit them in the ass;) ). They obviously don't have a clue what's best for those of us that live in our skin.

Take time away if you need to--or hang on the periphery where you know people "get it" and you can vent. We all need to do that from time to time, frankly GD can be brutal. But please don't go away forever. Your voice is needed here.

Alert whenever you can on offensive posts and posters (no more than twice though ;)). When they are made aware of it, mods are really good about deleting bigoted bullshit. They aren't always around-so sometimes it takes a little while, but they do their best.

It tends to be a lot of the same people that do this stuff. If you and enough others alert on such people, in time they will no longer be a part of our community. I've recently become aware of a few that frequently had stereotypical blanket statements to make about minority groups, are no longer with us. :D

:hug:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2331631

:puke:

That old saw comes around once a week. Makes me crazy.

There's is something truly salacious, however, about closet cases doing the devil's work on the right. To sensationalize it isn't anti-gay. This is rank hypocrisy. Mark Foley is a homosexual. Saying so and pointing to his sick closeting and perversions isn't wrong. There may be other things at work I'm not aware of, but I haven't seen them...

DU has what - something like 30,000 members? A percentage of those members are trolls, and even without trolls you can't have that many people together in the same place (no matter what the pretense) and not end up coming across opinions that are wrong.

It's also easy to see the very small number of negative things and have those stick out in your mind while ignoring the very large amount of positive things that are said and done, because those are more common place.

The thread you've been posting about today - it got locked. When threads like that don't get locked by the administrators of DU, THEN worry. But hoping that you'll never see an ignorant post in a place with this many people is a little unrealistic.

I think its also a bit hyperbolic to claim that somehow homophobic posts are the mainstream or the norm at DU. They are the exception to the rule, but of course they happen. There are just too many people here for too many different reasons for that not to happen.

One of the things you haven't mentioned is that even in that thread, there were quite a few people pointing out how ridiculous and offensive it was. The majority of DUers have other DUers backs. The OP was criticized, the thread was locked - I'm not sure what else you would want to happen in a well functioning discussion community of tens of thousands of people...?

hostility toward gay people. The purpose would be so that we can protect ourselves better from them and be wary before allowing ourselves to trust them. I have a few names in mind. Anyone who wants to try this, I'd love suggestions, thoughts, ideas, opinions, etc. ahead of time. We need some sort of system to protect ourselves from the lamblasting some people do to us. It's horrendous.

>>We need some sort of system to protect ourselves from the lamblasting some people do to us. It's horrendous.>>>


Free speech issues and all.

It *is* horrendous . But we have a system already. "Lambaste" 'em back. Feels good and provides a public service.

just a list comparing notes to warn each other who to trust and who to be wary of. That's not a blacklist. The posters in question would still be able to say whatever they normally say. :shrug: Maybe, I am not explaining it very well.

eom

Don't look for validation in general, mixed environments. That's what Gay Pride Day is for. That's why we have our own sports leagues, our own bars, our own neighborhoods, and San Francisco. That's why we have our own forum here on DU. Ironically, these are the only places we can go where we can be sure our sexuality simply doesn't matter. In our own spaces, we are viewed as everything else we are rather than the gay guy. This is where you go to be validated as a human being and an equal so we can go back to the real world. Homophobia of varying levels is just a daily fact of our lives, but it doesn't have to hurt. It isn't about you.

It's a hard lesson to learn, but even most of the most well-meaning straight people just don't get it. You might assume that your dearest friends get it because they've they treat you with respect. But if you haven't taken the time to explain your experiences, they probably don't get it and you're both assuming it a non-issue. You're one news item away from an insult you weren't expecting and subsequent blame for being too sensitive.

You have to be realistic with people. They've grown up in the same homophobic world we did. We all have our coming out stories and testimony of self-acceptance, but when it comes to respecting our straight friends and family on their own journey to overcome the homophobia all around us, we tend to have little patience and react with hostility to unintended offense. If no one's ever explained why it's offensive, is it really fair to be so harsh if they didn't realize it on their own?

Very well said. I live in a very small town. Population maybe 500 next to a city that has 13,000 on a good year. People I know, friends and family, treat me with respect, but some times the "f" word is said and they wonder why I don't like it. They just don't understand what it means to be gay. Especially when you are the only "gay guy" around. I've tried and tried to talk to them but it just doesn't sink in. I've given up on it all together. I wish I was viewed as a person and not the gay guy. "Oh don't worry, that's just James, he's gay, it's cool." I've heard that quite a bit from my lady friends explaining myself to their boyfriends or whatever.

but on the minority pecking order, GLBT folk (and promotion of their interests) rank somewhere below #1.

EDIT: In my humble opinion, of course.

are less than top priority (I want to add) is that, in my opinion, some DU people with homosexually-oriented desires and inclinations who suppress them project that suppression outward, to their relationships with others, which encompasses DU.

This person compared lesbians to nazis for real. I'm still flabbergasted.

Here is a link to my reply to make it easier to find.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=5753833&mesg_id=5756760

:wtf:

wasn't it rush who popularized the word "femi-nazi" in reference to Hillary Clinton? So, there you go. :mad:

It's our fault if we don't take back congress! :eyes:

One wonders about the drugs some people around here seem to be taking....

There's a thread in GD right now that casually asserts that the "Gay Agenda" is costing us votes, and we should return to true liberal values instead of such blind special interests. My mouth just about hit the floor, and I waited for the outrage I expected from other DUers...and instead saw a lot of "thoughtful post," "thank you for saying that," even from people with rainbow flag avatars. It is, as someone mentions downthread, totally demoralizing. :(

When you mentioned:
"thoughtful post," "thank you for saying that," even from people with rainbow flag avatars."

it made me think of how bad I am at ass kissing and groveling. I saw the gay agenda posts you mentioned and the ass kissing posts as well. It sickened me and reminded me of why I hate this semester in college as well as why I've not been too happy with certain posters here lately. I just can't fake it like that. You know?

I have a teacher who keeps saying that you can get a job making $15 an hour doing AutoCAD, but I live in a freeper red state and I'm female. I'll make more like $9.30 IF (a big IF) I get a job like that. Isn't the percentage that women make compared to men like 62% now? Anyhow, I'd make considerably less. I mentioned that in the class a few times yesterday, since the teacher wouldn't even help me learn CAD to begin with. He helped everybody on the first row yesterday except me even though I was the first to ask for help on the labs. He walked right by me to help the guys first. I'm the only female. I showed some serious attitude about that too. That's why I mentioned that he was only talking to the guys when he made the comment about $15 an hour. He has ignored me before, but that was one time too many. Anybody who doesn't like the fact that I said something is just going to have to hear about it. I cannot fake it and kiss the man's ass. I won't do it. :mad:

You are right. It is horribly demoralizing to get thrown under the bus at the last minute by fake friends with no chance to defend ourselves. It's like we have been wanting to win elections right alongside many of these people for years now and they throw us under the bus like the fake friends they are at the last minute. Makes me sick. :puke:

Some of the "thoughtful" and "brilliant" posts were from MOds... the same people we notified when we hit "alert" on posts in these threads. THAT'S even more demoralizing.

since I have been on DU, I've witnessed a lot of anti-this and anti-that, vegetarians are attacked by meat-eaters and vice-versa, smokers vs. smokers, a LOT of men vs. women - it has surprised me, but I guess Democrats are not all of one mind and you need to find the place within DU (like the LGBT part) and hang out there!

Overall it aint so bad. :-)

I hope you are having a better night? I haven't followed this issue much recently - I tried to look for some threads last night that were mentioned by other gay posters, but didn't find them. And haven't read this one yet. I have seen some nasty remarks toward gay people by other DU members over a period of time. However, I'm hoping that most straight DU members aren't like that. Most that I've spoken with haven't been. And to be honest, today my tolerance for certain things is very low and have made a point to avoid trying to get into arguments today. I've personally about had it with the the *sshole bigots and jerks in the repug party. It is very discouraging to have to deal the same thing with other dems.

Am heading back to work. Hopefully things will be better tomorrow. If it's any help, please keep in mind, no matter how someone may treat you, it doesn't change what is important to you and what you deserve. Have a great nite. :)

Supreme Court decision. :banghead:

You cheapen the word when you apply it to DUers, none of whom I've seen overtly blast gays. Some people tried to put that label on me today, despite me saying multiple times that I'm for gay rights. If anything, someone might leave the site feeling a bit hostile after repeatedly being falsely accused of something. You have to distinguish between insensitive comments and homophobia.

...to Fred Phelps. Overt statements are not a prequisite of homophobia. Garden-variety homophobes are usually the last people to recognize their own homophobia -- and they react the most violently when called on it.

Phobia means fear. One does not have to "overtly blast gays" to be homophobic. Much homophobia is of the stealth variety, whether the homophobe in question realizes his own phobia or not.

See also: Cognitive dissonance.

See also: "I'm not gay, but some of my best friends are..."

See also: "I'm all in favor of gay rights, but why can't gays wait their turn / why do they have to push it / be so militant / hurt the rest of us in the process / (insert your favorite line here)".

P.S. If anything, someone might leave the site feeling a bit hostile after repeatedly being falsely accused of screwing up yet another election for the Democrats.

statistics saying that

1) Homosexuals are nearly TWICE as wealthy as heterosexuals.
2) Call people christian-bashers if they point out that the study is a right-wing talking point.
3) Say that gays are not a "visible" minority like African-Americans or Latinos, so we can't be discriminated against on sight.
4) Reducing all our issues to some fantasy you have of wealthy white gays crying over not being able to have a wedding ceremony.
5) Repeating that our issues are "no comparison" in a way that doesn't simply mean that the issues are clearly not historical equivalents, but that our issues are some kind of minor inconvenience.

No, you're not homophobic. Your heterosexist and ignorant on our issues. Whether willfully or otherwise. If you really care, educate yourself on the struggles of African-American gays and lesbians. Divisive comments like yours hurt them the most.

If you want REAL statistics on GLBT people try reading the white papers from the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force. www.taskforce.org

Then talk to me about "rich" homosexuals.

There are a lot of people here who have as much as stated that they have no interest in our rights.

We are a "special interest."
We haven't suffered enough for our rights to be an issue right now.
We're just looking for validation.

All of these are things that have been said by DUers.

I honestly contemplated leaving DU today. Even the Duke rape threads didn't make me seriously do that.

I'm really not able to respond sometimes without freaking out. I'm not patient with straights. I'm really not. I wish I could be more gandhi-like about it, but I'm a hotblooded femme.

Let's stand and fight back instead of leaving. Our grievances will eventually be addressed here. I am sure it will take some time, but I think it has to do with differences in moderators' opinions. I have noticed that sometimes when I have hit alert, it took hours before the post was deleted. I think many of the moderators have their hands full right now and I would imagine some just plain out and out do hate us, but the majority are just overloaded. It's hell over in GD right now. If any of them are brazen enough to come over here and badger us, I hope we will all step in with solid facts and straighten them out for a change.

I'm pissed!

Especially not seeing certain people eating granite.

And I'm sure we'll be TSed before they will. x(

Or, at least have this deleted.... *sigh*

If I've noticed that if I say "what a bunch of ignorant homophobic load of bullshit" my post gets deleted, but the ignorant homophobic load of bullshit--often a Rovian talking point--is left untouched. What am I supposed to say? Sir, you're hurting my fee-wings? I think I'm pretty open, too. But when you start saying that such-and-such conservative poll says that gays are twice as wealthy as straights... :puke:

I'll probably be TSed before they will too. :(

and the insults don't get deleted. I don't think a single post I've alerted on has ever been deleted. But anything I say in response does get deleted.

It's definitely a problem.

For example, why was that long flamebait poll-- which was basically "are gays a big bunch of whiny babies who spit on African Americans by calling their struggle a civil rights struggle"--why was that allowed to continue? It was an utterly unintelligent blathering wedge. Yet the sarcastic thread about african-americans messing up the election by being too black, that was locked tout suite. I really hate this "hierarchy of oppressions" bullshit. Sexual orientation discrimination, gender discrimination, racial discrimination, and class discrimination are all overlapping issues. Each issue is distinct and complicated by its intersections with the others. Sigh...

And thank goodness, too.

Me, right about now --> :nuke:

It's sad that homophobia is accepted, but self-defense isn't.

I'm sure there are royalty free clip art graphics of fire hydrants and fire hoses and water we can use. We should just start "splashing" them with a picture (and no words) when they post obvious flame bait. I think it would piss them off. Silence (and some well placed polite insults) are sometimes louder than trying to argue with someone who is waaaaay off base. They wouldn't even see it coming. It certainly wouldn't be against the rules, would it?

:)

I went back after getting calmed down a little and one topic was locked and the other took too long to load on my dialup. Wanna guess what post it stopped loading on? The one that assumed that gay people are twice as rich as straight people. That false "fact" just stood out at me on the screen while I fumed because I couldn't load the whole thread to read it again before posting. :mad:

Leave? Hell no, let them smell us despite their upturned noses. It's raining right now. Maybe some of them will have to look down (to keep from drowning) and see our faces and realize we are human beings.

Oh, I suppose we're the wealthy backbone of the LIBERAL elite too. That's why we've made so many fucking legal gains. :sarcasm:

Hell, most of us come form poor impoverished areas of the country that are going nowhere and have to work ten times as hard to save up to leave the place, if we want success in life. Where they get some of these ideas is beyond me. Well, not totally. They obviously formed their opinions about gay people by the ones they see on right wing controlled network television, not by knowing any gay people personally in real life. I guess that is why they de-humanize us every chance they get. I'm glad about one thing; we have GLBT to come lick our wounds and regroup. Too bad we can't have a discussion about the homophobic comments people are making with those who can do something about it. It seems rampant lately. It is not normally like that. Why the sudden shift to the right? It's odd, isn't it? Of course, I have noticed a lot of new posters signing up since early summer and racking up 1000+ post counts really fast. They could be disruptors for all we know.

absolutely disgusting :mad:

That poster is still here, posting that garbage.

It won't get deleted. We'll even protect you from those mean ol' GLBT people if they call you on it. Don't worry, you're protected."

x(

Don't leave. Let's stand and move in groups together. I can do weekend nights and some afternoons. SIN=safety in numbers. I say we study the moderators and hit alert when we see some of the homophobic comments. Others, we can fight and win.

Please don't leave. :hug:

I still haven't made a decision yet...

I just posted a thread in GD. I'm going to the grocery store now...

But at times, I've seen friendlier environments on certain conservative forums.... They know I'm out but just tell me they don't like my lifestyle, debate me using valid points and are rarely insulting.....

Welcome to DU. I hope things improve while you're here.

Thanks

homophobia during a given time frame.

I'd say we're at Orange right now?

JUST CROSS OUT TERRORIST AND PUT HOMOPHOBIC

Have never seen a gay liberal attacked, and when it's gay Republicans, the attacks are on the hypocrisy, not the orientation. Instead of feeling hurt or depressed, I feel supported and energized by the attitudes of straight DUers towards gays.

:spray:

:rofl:

:eyes:

I've been here since 2002 and have always been supported when posting about gay issues

Do I go around pronouncing that there is no racism at DU? No. I'm caucasian. I might be able to say it if I SEE it because African-Americans throughout my life have trained me to see from their perspective as much as one possibly can not having lived the life experience of an African-American. But I can never pronounce that there is NO real racism in a particular environment because I'm not qualified. It would be obnoxious and out of line to do so. You have no more right proclaiming whether or not there is an underlying homophobia in a particular environment. I don't care if you're mother, brother, son, daughter, and pet penguin are gay. You're not.

Been gay probably since before you were born. This is outrageous. Will have to tell my longterm partner, when he calls in a few minutes, that some know-it-all at DU has pronounced me straight. He'll be amused; I'm aghast and devastated by the ignorant hatred of your post, and another recently by an equally presumptuous DUer. Moreover, some pro-Ford nuts in TN just attacked me as a Republican-voting woman from NC when I'm a lifelong Democrat from Virginia who happened to live in NC when I chose my username. What the hell is it with people today?!? DU is crazier and meaner than I've ever seen it in 4 and a half years.

Oh, the "ignorant hatred of my post". Give me a break. And "you've been gay since before I was born"... some presumptions of your own.

I said *probably* since you were born. Most people in this country were born after I came out in 1969; didn't make a presumption but a probability statement. You remind me of a T-shirt that says how dare you assume I'm straight.

And I've been here for 2 years and I have *never* seen you before. And obviously, many other prominent gay DUers don't know you either because no one seemed to know you. Frankly, I don't see how you don't see anti-gay posts on DU recently. So blaming us for the loss of an election not "anti-gay?" Is citing RW material that states that gays are twice as wealthy as straights (ie. frivolous and elitist) not "anti-gay"? You may have registered a long time ago, but that doesn't mean you're around much.

No, I'm not older than you, but I don't put much stock into that meaning very much. I've been out for 17 years and I think that's long enough to recognize homophobia when I see it.

And, frankly, if someone said that there is no racism at DU, I'd be shocked to find out they are black. If someone said there is no sexism at DU, I'd be shocked to discover that they are female.

I didn't say there were no homophobic posts; I said that DU was extremely gay-friendly in my experience. That was in context of American society; if 10% of DUers are homophobes and 40% of Americans are, then contextually DU is extremely gay-friendly. It's all relative and presumably your standards as a northeastern genXer (?) are a lot higher than mine as a southeastern boomer.

What I take offense at most of all is the bizarre presumptuousness of assuming someone's race, sexual orientation, political attitudes, ad nauseum based on a (mis?) reading of a single post. For example, in a thread that just got locked, I complained that two Harold Ford admirers responded to my criticism of his attack on Kerry by accusing me of being a woman from North Carolina who was going to vote for a Republican for Congress. While my profile has been disabled since that awful stalking incident two years ago, if anyone wanted to know my gender, state of residence, or party loyalty all they'd have to do is look for recent posts. Instead, people just manufacture imaginary enemies out of whole cloth without even checking. Which would not matter except that when attacking that imaginary enemy they are causing distress to a real human being who is not their enemy.

Likewise, some Northern DUers seem to assume that anyone who is a Southerner offended by anti-South rhetoric must be a white Confederate sympathizer. In fact, my family heritage is interracial and Southern Unionist. These are categories not often *imagined* by those who stereotype and jump to conclusions, but nonetheless represent significant historical realities. Those who hate and disdain all Southerners don't make any exception for those of mulatto Unionist heritage. It is almost inconceivable to them that someone can love the South and loathe the Confederate flag with a passion stronger than any Yankee.

Even on the brink of what looks to be a glorious victory, I am feeling despair right now about the polarization and hatred that the Bush administration has brought us to. In what ought to be a haven of solidarity, we are seeing vituperation and hostility here that is a microcosm of the hellish macrocosm created by Bushco. Will we ever see an end to it?

I think that a good portion of your problem may be stemming from the fact that your profile is disabled and I haven't seen you on the GLBT board even though you had a high post count. I can't say I was "manufacturing enemies", if that was my intention I wouldn't be talking to you still. I have absolutely no desire to fabricate enemies. There are plenty of actual enemies to deal with--and that's just reality.

I suppose that online communities seem more homophobic than RL communities because it's pure language. I can wave to my neighbors and have no idea what they are thinking. On DU, all you are is what you think. Happily, there are many people whose thoughts aren't wholly offensive. That's wonderful. Unfortunately, what might be a passing comment in RL can become a flamewar online because of the amount of time that can go into writing a response.

I live between NYC and Texas. My partner is a Texan and sometimes I get angry at anti-South rhetoric. I have a lot of GLBT brothers and sisters who live in the South. On the other hand, I will call someone out if "heritage" is used as an excuse for racism or homophobia.

I think it is interesting that you feel that we are on the brink of a glorious victory. I feel nothing of the sort. I feel like we may win the house and congress back, but I feel that the Republican machine and the vast media property that they own, are going to continue to attempt to destroy democracy. I also don't feel that winning means that the majority of Americans agree with our principles. I feel that if a right wing nut with charisma and 1/2 a political pedigree came along then they'd be back on the Republican train in a heartbeat. My optimism is extremely guarded.

and I almost hate to mention it, but rightwing domestic terrorism. McVeigh to the nth degree could easily result from Democratic electoral victories while Rush, Hannity, O'Reilly and company still command the airwaves. We can find some solace in the great number of former wingers-- even Hitchens for Christ's sake-- renouncing their affiliation to the Bush dictatorship. But the extreme right might be even more dangerous stripped of political power and backed into a corner than they are now.

Peace.

his employer a couple of years ago. That spooked quite a few of us, including me, who had profiles up for years before. The DUer was Misanthrope, an Alabama DJ, and the date was whenever Reagan died.

not personal stuff, but basic stuff. Nice to see state at least.

Listen, it's been tough around here. I'm glad that you haven't experience any alienation, but please trust that many of the GLBT DUers have seen some pretty egregious behavior (props to the mods that most of it gets locked fairly quickly). If you're not around here consistently, you can miss a lot. Peace.

>>>Have never seen a gay liberal attacked, and when it's gay Republicans, the attacks are on the hypocrisy, not the orientation.>>>

They *say* they're attacking the hypocrisy, but they mock the target for his/her sexuality itself. This happens over and over on the main board. For example... Mehlman ( assuming he's gay) is not out. No one but Mehlman and his intimates know for sure. DUers don't *know*.

Nonetheless, his *mannerisms* are ridiculed and the intimation is that it is thru his mannerisms that one can detect that Mehlman is gay.

First of all, gay people have all sorts of mannerisms; so do non-gays. That's just textbook stereotyping . Secondly, ridiculing his "gay" mannerisms is tantamount to ridiculing his 'gay'ness itself.

One can rationalize this sort of thing til hell freezes over, but the premise of this sort of attack is that being gay is in some way a defect, ... moral, psychological, or otherwise.

:applause:

Hahahhahahahahhaha

why so hateful now?

Funniest dang post I have seen in a long while.

Thanks I needed that laugh!!!!

Compared to Freak-Repugnant, for example, DU is the epitome of gay-friendly.

And I suppose if you very narrowly define "attack" it would be easy to honestly say "I've never seen a gay liberal attacked".

But the "attacks are on the hypocrisy, not the orientation" line is horse manure.

And if you're energized by the attitudes around here I'm rather worried.

They talk about hypocrisy? I got their hypocrisy hanging right between my legs.

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...calling a spade a spade makes us whiners, because phobes don't like being called out, do they?

for the "crime" of existing as you were born, come back to us and talk about whining.

Until then STFU.

:P

right? :eyes:

I'm a monthly donor. I've volunteered several times as a moderator. I like to think that I've given some part of myself and my time here at DU.

But I get so fucking tired seeing some of this shit. The Haggard story, once again, opened the floodgates of plain out and out ignorant homophobic shit.

Like I said, I'm a monthly donor. Maybe my donation could be better spent on an organization that doesn't condone homophobia.

End of rant.

There's some homophobia that drives me up the wall, for sure.

But I have as hard a time with what I consider double standards which purport to be gay-friendly but which (IMO) represent a more insidious homophobia. That's mostly the idea that being gay is your "sex life", or that being gay is "private" even though being hetero isn't treated as such.

Lastly, I weary of a lack of humor about the whole thing. So Mehlman's mannerisms are mocked - big deal. If gays are going to lose all sense of humor - a gift that has gotten us through some BAD SHIT - I might as well turn in my membership.

We need to remember that this is America, where one is free to mock and be mocked. Politial correctness started out well intended, but it has turned into a monster which kills everything from laughter, to art, to business.

One more time people- you have no god given right to float through life unoffended.

While I am sure that some of the more PC folks out there are indeed the patron saints of kindness and a humorless bliss, I haven't met too many of them. Many women who go ballistic at things they consider "misogynist" are the very ones who make even more insulting remarks about men and think it is excused because they use political parlance. Many gay people say perfectly dreadful things about straight people, but there is an understanding that they aren't referring to one another's parents, siblings, or dear friends. God knows black people talk about white people and certain Asian groups are well known for an ingrained belief in their own superiority to other Asians as well as everybody else.

Friends are free to speak. Friends get to take a shot at you now and then. People who are afraid of offending you aren't friends- you are obviously keeping them at arms length. People you know that you are afraid of offending aren't friends- they are acquaintences.

Don't assume ill will until it is completely and verifiably undeniable. There is a difference between people saying stupid shit in ignorance from lack of exposure, and someone out to tell you they hate you in no uncertain terms.

The latter are usually NOT found on DU. The former require a mature response and some patience before we establish ill will.

Also, speaking for myself, I hate wearing the "persecuted" cloak. If I think someone is dishing it out intentionally, it's time to do more than posture and complain. Verbally rip their tongue out by way of their asshole, and damn the rules.

However one has to clearly establish ill will first, walk away, think about it, etc., and consider one's reputation afterwards among the meek (and shocked), and then at least briefly consider the alert button. In my case briefly consider usually means looking at it to be sure I don't accidentally click on it.

Hey, I call it aversion therapy.

The only place in immediate memory where people are downright mean and irredeemably ugly, particularly in the context of gay issues, is Free Republic. They also have no sense of proportion, because when you call them on it (before you get banned for the tenth time) they come up with some lame example on Democratic Underground. ON another conservative board that I haunt, when I call them on something (just for exercise and because they expect it) , they invoke Democratic Underground. They claim to have seen a behavior here as juvenile or common as the one I called them on.

The interesting thing about that unnamed BBS is that while I wouldn't call them friends, we have come to "care about" each other to some small degree. I get emails asking if I have survived the latest hurricane, prayers for family problem, and condolences when my dog died. And these are people who deny that there is discrimination against gay people or that what "i call" discrimination is in fact unconstitutional. The hard part about all that is that I find these people to be more interesting and engaging, and often more knowledgeable than folks I have dealt with on liberal boards (not DU , of course).

Speaking of people on the attack, someone in another thread seemed to suggest that I wasn't new here. Perhaps I am just being paranoid, or he was.

we do have a right to call people on their offensive behavior. Especially when it's deliberate.

And when some of us DO call people on their offensive behavior, remember your own point about not having any right be unoffended.

I actually did have some faith restored. The mods came on and locked it, in spite of the OP taunting that it wouldn't happen, and explained WHY.

Of course I had already chewed on some ass, and not in a good way, but I may be less likely to bite soon and hard now.

I guess the ol' "give the mods a chance to do their job" thing is worth taking into consideration.

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