Homophobia, not injustice, is what really fires the faiths

Inspired by the homophobic writings in their holy books, Christians, Muslims, and Jews are trying to reverse gay-friendly legislation passed by Parliament.

Homophobia, not injustice, is what really fires the faiths

Outside parliament tonight the intolerance that comes with religion's moral certainty will be on display for all to see

Polly Toynbee
Tuesday January 9, 2007
The Guardian

The religious are rallying by torchlight outside parliament this evening. In the Lords they are trying to strike out regulations in the new equality act that outlaw discrimination and harassment of gays, making it illegal to discriminate in providing any goods and services to anyone, from healthcare to hotel rooms. This is a mighty test of strength between the religious and the secular. Any peers against discrimination, get on down the Lords: the vote is at 7.30pm. Will the Tories prove to be gay-friendly?

Christians, Muslims and Jews are all fighting against the sexual orientation regulations with a wrecking clause that would render them meaningless: "Nothing in these regulations shall force an individual to act against their conscience or strongly held religious beliefs." Anyone could use their "conscience" to discriminate against gays.

Get one thing clear: this law does not stop religions from banning gays joining their congregations or becoming priests. (Though they don't seem to be very good at it.) But it does oblige any organisation or business offering services to the public to offer them equally to all comers. Bizarre and repugnant ads in newspapers from Christian organisers have spread outright lies about what this law does. Their campaign, strongly supported by the Daily Mail, has whipped up a degree of homophobia still lurking under an apparently tolerant surface. The gay rights group Stonewall has been horrified at the resurgence of threats and obscene abuse.

To make their case, the religious have struggled to think up extreme scenarios where the law might affect them, but each has proved to be wrong, as ministers have refuted them all.

They claim the law will "force all schools to actively promote homosexual civil partnerships to children (from primary-school age) to the same degree that they teach the importance of marriage". No it won't: the curriculum does not "actively promote" homosexuality, nor even make sex education compulsory. They claim the law will "force a printing shop run by a Christian to print fliers promoting gay sex". No it won't, unless the same printers promote heterosexual porn too. Or how about this one? "Force a family-run B&B to let out a double room to a transsexual couple, even if the family think it in the best interests of their children to refuse to allow such a situation in their home." Oh no it won't: it doesn't even cover transsexuals - and what a daft scenario anyway. The National Secular Society has complained to the Advertising Standards Authority. But on and on go the prurient situations the religious homophobes dream up. The Christian Concern for Our Nation, petitioning the Queen, claims they "love their neighbours", but "Christians, of course, earnestly desire the repentance and salvation of homosexuals".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,1985899,00.html

Disgustingly predictable.

This is why I refuse to profess ANY religion. They are, one and all, BENEATH me. They don't deserve to have me.

I'm better than ANY of these faiths.

Some religious people think that homosexuals are below them. They are wrong.

Some non-religious people think that religious people are below them. That's not any less wrong.

I didn't say the PEOPLE were beneath me.

I said their RELIGIONS are beneath me.

I'm not bashing the people, I'm bashing their religions, collectively. And deservedly.

ALSO:

Worshiping- in any religion- is a choice, and being gay is not. I choose to NOT worship in any religion, because I see it as a bad choice. I did make one mistake- I said 'faiths' rather than 'religions' at the end of my post. That was my only mistake, as there is a gulf between religion and faith.

I have faith- but I REFUSE to have religion because it is beneath me. This is true for all religions. Not once did I bash on the people who worship within those religions.

Think on it a while, and you'll understand what it is I'm saying.

ed.: slight modification.

When religious folks have to put up with what I've had too, because of their 'faith' 'belief' and 'religion, I may find some validity to your statement.

They are below me, and will be until the day I die, and turn to dust.

So people are better if they have to go through more hardships? While that may occasionally be true, it is certainly not universally applicable. Feel free to be hostile to religious people, but don't portray yourself as "open-minded" or "tolerant" at the same time.

I'm not religious, so I don't have a dog in the fight. I just can't stand this hypocrisy that goes on so often.

I do think people gain some perspective from being put, unduly through hardships. I agree, it's not a universal application, largely because many find themselves embracing the very 'ideals' or dogma that has been the source of so much pain.

I've always been a open minded individual, and conduct myself using what is believed to be Christian morals. I have had tolerant parley, and even settled for 'well I'm sorry, but that's the way I feel', and 'well I guess we agree to disagree' generally both in condescending tone. The more I accommodated, the more they used it to ride that high horse. When 8.8 out of 10 believe in God, and usually what their book dictates, they can afford to say those things to you with condemnation.

Being a decent human being is all I need to be, and that sets me above those that follow such hateful, and damming doctrines.

Lastly, peoples behaviors generally don't match their moral beliefs, talk about hypocrisy.

even the ones they sleep with, the mothers of their children. It's the individual cultures and religious interpretations that's driving the injustice. Maybe homophobia is providing an easy explanation for what ails everyone. And that's just sad.

Did you ever think if Those Clauses in the bible (sic) didn't exist, christians (sic) wouldn't go around persecuting Gays?

:think:

I don't blame it all on religion.

but without the verses, the interpretations would not exist. I'm 100% certain, for example, that if the bible actually came out and unequivocally stated that the universe has the Earth as its center, believeing otherwise- even with scientific data to back you up- would get you thrown out of your congregation. As evidence of this, we can look to how much time passed before Galileo was 'forgiven'... for being right.

How many gay people saying they were born the way they are will it take before that becomes commonly accepted knowledge? How much longer will it take before religions hop on board that fact?

With Galileo as our example, lifetimes. Many, many, many lifetimes. I don't see religions accepting gay people as being created the way they are in my lifetime, or in fact several (dozen?) generations from now.

All because of ONE stupid verse. Personally, I take Leviticus as an example of how humans can never be considered 'holy', because it is actually impossible to live up to all the 'holiness codes' therein. Nobody can do it, and that's why christians cherrypick from that book in particular. They HAVE to. If they didn't, there's no possible way THEY could follow all 'the rules'.

So why the hell do they expect US to do so?

deny me a job, a place to live, healthcare?

and actions taken by Christians and Catholics, but cites no statements made or actions taken by Jews or Muslims.

So why are Jews and Muslims indicted at the beginning of her article?

Not that the other two don't do the same thing to us. They're just not NEARLY as vocal and smugly self-righteous about it.

Fundie Jews, aka ultra-Orthodox, called gays an abomination to the holy city and threatened violence. They found allies in the discredited Catholic Church, evangelical Christians, and fundie Muslims.

For a part of the world in which adherents of all 3 religions have a history of killing each other in the name of their respective Gawds, it should be noted that when it comes to hating LGBTs, they all work together when spewing their homophobic filth.

United in hate

Which is why I refuse to profess any particular religion. They apparently ALL do this.

that religion turns people into 'hateful lemmings'

powerful tool, used by and against peoples.

This is nothing new.

What is new on the horizon of late is the acceptance of homosexuality by greater numbers of people. The religions *feel* infringed upon and/or are using the issue in furtherance of their institutions. Simple, really. Not simple, however, is the great and deep and systemic damage wrought by religions who so act.