I'm tired of everything....

For many generations, we as gay Americans have supported the democrats over the republicans. They told us that if we'd work with them and vote for them, that they'd do everything they could to make our lives easier and to push our relationships to a place where they'd be virtually indistinguishable from husband and wife.

We voted for clinton because he called for an end to the ban on openly gay individuals serving in the military. We sat back and silently watched when he broke this promise and issued his "don't ask, don't tell" proclamation, and when he signed the DOMA into law.

Under his presidency the democrats could have passed ENDA (they had two branches of government and more than enough power in that instance), but they didn't.

Even with a republican presidency, in the last four years we've seen the number of people that support the goals of ENDA increase exponentially. Today, it has over 60% of the public's support. Still, the democrats sit on their hands and let the waters of public opinion pass them by.

Even with all the time, all of the money, all of the effort we as gay and lesbian Americans put into them, they can't find the courage and stand up for us in one instance. It's been 11 years since democrats had control of both houses of congress, and not a damn thing has changed.

Between the party that hates us openly the party that can't stand to talk about us, where does it leave us?

We can blame the voting machines and we can blame the republicans for our misfortunes, but some of the blame has to go to ourselves at the party that we've chosen to represent our interests.

As a fraction in the democratic party, gays and lesbians should hold significant sway, but we don't. Some of us would rather sit at home and fuck our boyfriend/girlfriend and carry on with our little lives. Others would rather fuck anything that walks in the room. Neither group really cares.

So I'm using my 1000th post to ask a simple question. If the democrats don't care to work for us and some of us don't care to rally them, why should I care--why should any of us care?

I think that the GLBT section of our society is just another resource to be mined for votes when the election years roll around (whether applauding you or vilifying you). I believe the politicians only care as far as the vote you cast. After that, they cater to their own self interests and attempt after the fact to paint it as helping the citizens...regardless of party afilliation (sp?).

I do truly believe the Dem party is the party of tolerance. I just think gay rights are where civil rights were 40-50 years ago in this country for African Americans.
I know it's easy for me to say Q3JR4, but have patience. Hang in there with us. We're trying to get there.

signing doma and support democrats showed for it -- was more bitter than you can know.

all i can say is -- i had better see something special -- thirty years since any progressive gender equality legislation is a long, long time -- given that it's now 2005.

there is a price for everything -- and i'm waiting to see.

and you'll have an idea how we feel. They couldn't even get the ERA passed, largely because they agreed to a time limit on ratification by the states, a constraint that was never placed on any other potential amendment in the history of this country.

Now they're openly talking about abandoning the prochoice plank in the party plaform.

We're just as disgusted as you are.

Politics is never an all or nothing game. If you are looking for a politican to be the silver bullet that ends anti-gay discrimination in one easy step...you can forget it.

Politics is kind of like football. You hope to get players on the field that will move the ball in the right direction. Just remember that the real reason they can't advance things the way we'd like is the very organized religious right...and our players are outnumbered on the field by anti-gay republicans.

doma and ''don't ask don't tell'' were anti-gay legilation -- anti-gay.

and so the money and support that gay people make and have made mean nothing?
that's a lot of nothing.

and you don't have to tell gay people how to get what we need -- we know how.

That anti-gay Bill Clinton was a big phony...nominating hundreds of pro-choice/gay friendly judges, creating an AIDS CZAR, being the first president to use the word gay and to nominate openly gay men/women like Roberta Achtenberg & James Hormel to high profile govt posts. </sarcasm>

On the issues that COUNTED -- equality under the law and equality to serve in the military -- he fucked us over with glee and even advertised that decision on conservative radio stations as "defending traditional families."

An "AIDS Czar" and other useless symbolism makes not a whit of difference when compared with his other "achievements."

For gay people, Bill Clinton was a net negative -- we lost rights under his administration as a result of his actions. To say that he's still better than the Bushes is NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

They had plenty of time to do so much more when they had Clinton in office, and control of both houses of Congress. What did they do though? Clinton folded under pressure with DADT, and He was the fool who singned DoMA under NO pressure what so ever.

So don't turn this and push blame away from where it belongs. The dems turned their back on us and they continue to do it, and guess what? We keep supporting them and keep on letting them turn their backs on us.

Bill Clinton lost both houses of congress. He raised taxes on the wealthy, boosted social spending, TRIED to lift the ban on gays in the military, TRIED to get healthcare for the insured, brought in TRUE liberals like Dr. Joyclyn Elders, Robert Reich, et.al. to high profile cabinet positions.

And how did voters reward him? By kicking him in the teeth in 1994. Political experts predicted he would be a one term president. Can you honestly blame him for 'moving to the right' a bit.

...'02 election loss for Democrats? I do! I heard it said enough times by people right here on DU with nothing better to do with their time that cause flame wars that it was all the LGBTIQQ communities fault that the Dem's lost. Because we are selfish fucking idiots who want our rights and our rights only.

Don't you remember the Presidential election loss for '04? I do very well. Those same people came back and told us yet again that it was our fault.

Like many of those people we poured our time and money into getting Dem's elected. We went out and voted even though we weren't happy wit the democrat we were voting for, but none of that mattered did it? It was still our fault.

Well it is about damn time that these people and the Dem's took some responsibility for the losses themselves. Perhaps if they didn't move further to the right, things would have been a lot different.

I would hate to think of how many people I heard say over the last five years that they had given up on the democratic party because the Democratic party had given up on them.

So to answer your question, YES I do blame him for moving further to the right. He started a trend in the Dem's, which unfortunately has all but destroyed what the party once was.

Not only did the SOB sell out gays in 1996 when he signed DOMA, but remember he then ran ads on Christian radio stations bragging about saving marriage!

Then the scumbag told Dean in IA that he shouldn't even bother running for political office because he signed the Civil Unions law in Vermont.

And then he tried to get Kerry to come out in favor of all of those bigoted amendments!

Did he pass ENDA? No. But he sure as hell managed to pass "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" during that period of time.

as a 30-something, straight, married woman from Texas....

I will loudly proclaim my support for my GLBT brothers and sisters as often as I can. I will always defend your right to live your life however you see fit and I espouse your right to live openly with every privilege and protection that the hetero world has.

I will not let bigotry and hatred pass without comment.
I will work hard to make sure that any Dem leader I endorse votes similarly. I was bitterly disappointed to find out that Stephanie Herseth, a candidate that I donated to and worked for, via Emily's List, voted in favor of anti-gay legislation as soon as she took office. Never again.

I have lots of friends who feel the same way as I do, but who sometimes are at a loss as to what positions they should advocate for on issues - for example, the "don't ask, don't tell" fiasco. I thought it was bad as it attached a secretive stigma, but some of them could not discern that. I would encourage the GLBT community to be as vocal as possible to those you identify as friends about stuff such as this. I think you have a lot of straight folks who want to pull for you, but they awkwardly don't really have a clue as to what the preferred outcome is (they also receive mixed messages about civil unions vs gay marriage, so some good education on this would be helpful).

I will always advocate for the unrestricted right of your liberties and pursuit of happiness as it is the RIGHT THING TO DO. It's not much, but just wanted to let you know that you do have the unconditional support from some of us who would outwardly not seem to have a stake in the matter.

Chin up, you aren't out there fighting all alone. :pals:

Know that we can't do it without you.

During my brief lifetime (since the 70s) I've seen the gay community earn the attention of decent straight people through hard work and constant explaining.

The best thing you can do for us is learn our issues (from marriage to ENDA to hate crimes to issues that trans people face in public life such as not being able to use public bathrooms and not being able to get health care to identification problems: ie. driver's licenses, passports, ss cards) By doing research and spreading information you can help free up our time to organize amongst ourselves (and with you) and move onto gaining more ground.

Thanks for your support.

Two points on your post:

"But some of the blame has to go to ourselves at the party that we've chosen to represent our interests."

No. We live in a two party system. One party hates us, the other tells us 'hey, we swear we don't hate you.' There is no choice. When a rapist asks a chained victim if they'd rather be raped by two or ten depraved lunatics, you do not turn around and blame that victim for assuming that zero is not an option. Within the system, we have nothing.

"Some of us would rather sit at home and fuck our boyfriend/girlfriend."

Well, yes. I would most certainly rather fuck my partner than have to take on the religious right. I only fight in the few ways that I know how. When I learn new ways, I will incorporate them and become bolder.

"Others would rather fuck anything that walks in the room. Neither group really cares."

It is not only sexually abstinent people who are fighting. Most of the queers arrested at the RNC, for example, are polyamorous. That's like saying that partnered suburban queers are too busy raising children to fight.

We're not 'not fighting' because we're too busy being immoral. We're not fighting because we are cornered on all sides and things are getting ugly. We are not fighting because we are afraid to face the fact that we need Stonewall II. But we don't have critical mass yet.

I believe that after Bush gets three Supreme Court Justices or after court stripping laws are passed, I believe then we may reach critical mass.

The truth is that most of us are already coming into this battle bruised and bleeding on the inside. We've been beaten down all our lives. So when some democrat tells us he'll help, we are grateful and we give our vote. And we give our vote. And we give our vote. And 30 years later we still only have what we fought for ourselves.

I'm all for by any means necessary. But I just can't figure out the means.

Any constructive ideas?

in this fight; nor are you alone in being singled-out as prey for the "ubermenschen".

We are fighting a dark tide. I had thought we were making progress, throughout the nineties, in terms of a more open, honest society, art that reflected tolerant social mores, women's rights and association between races that would have been unthinkable a few decades ago.

I don't know the extent to which this is politics, coming down from the top, as opposed to some ugly thing bubbling up from the bottom that they are tapping into and exploiting. But the fact is the Aryan Supremacists are now taking out BILLBOARDS and women rights are threatened; the environment is fair game along with science; religious tolerance is decreasing. Tolerance for artistic expression is decreasing along with freedom of and respect for the free press.

I'm speaking here as a Jewish woman, an artist too - I feel very threatened. As far as the persecution of gay people is concerned I find it obnoxious and troubling and as I say, only part of an array of bigoted behavior.

Try to feel that we are with you; you are not alone. We MUST not give up or splinter away now. All of us will be needed to defeat this enemy.

None of us should care.

Sapphocrat and I have talked about this lack of interest for our rights in our own community for years.

We have worked hard to put together a group of binational couples to work towards immigration rights in the U.S. Ya know what? Not many in that group took a solid interest in their right to be together. We begged them to write letters to certain government people who hadn't yet come on board with PPIA, they didn't. In the end Sapph and I gave up. Neither of us have contact with our own damn group anymore.

It seems to me that they want everything handed to them on a silver platter. They aren't willing to work for it. Ya know, I compare this to battered wife syndrome, because it is very much how it is.

The repukes dish out the "bashings", the dems sit back and watch it happen, but do nothing, and the queer community, rather than working together as a whole (guess what? We would be a fucking force if we worked together, and able to achieve a lot) they keep going back for more of the same "bashings." Trouble is, it affects all of us, not just those that don't give a shit, and that isn't fair to those of us who have given a shit.

Now, I defend our right to our lives here on DU and other forums, but when it comes to organizing letter writing campaigns etc, I stay away. Like many in our community turned their backs on me, I have turned my back on them.

Like you, I am tired too.

You have fighters,supporters and......handwringers. The biggest problem "we" have is it's alot easier just to hide than to stand up. LGBT has learned very early to hide rather than fight,example Africa/Americans can't hide their color very well so they had to stand and fight for their rights. We on the other hand learned that safety could be had by just staying out of the public eye. The other problem is not trying to win over the str8s, to teach them what we are and what we want.

you said it FC. I am 60y/o and am a veteran of many of the gay causes over the years. I smuggled my argentinian bf into the states once and begged him in another time to a sympathetic border guard. I was jailed for taking part in a pro gay picketline and harrased many times. I remember when Willie Brown assembly speaker passed the brown act that legalized us, and i rejoiced. Moments like that are few and far between; and for those monments I keep going.

...I really just want to say thank you to you!

I am only 37, and have only been out for the last 6 years to myself, and some friends. And out to my family properly for the last 3 years. I have however been fighting for equality for everyone pretty much most of my life. Nevertheless, I feel I have never done enough, even though I have been working towards gay equality for the last six years.

I realize the job people who are older tan me did for our community and for that, we owe each and every one of you a debt of gratitude.

You and your generation are my true hero's.

Lawrence v TX was a great milestone or maybe a "tipping point", Now goes the military. any real poll of the GIs will show that they do not agree with sending people out of Iraq 'cause they are gay. the UCMJ was based on the illegality of homosexuality as far as DADT is concerned. Divorce rates in MA belie the bankruptcy of the the old way.

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First of all, as a straight Massachusetts Democrat I'm somewhat offended. I didn't work on gay marriage for three years to listen to this kind of defeatism and blaming. Of course this stuff is painfully hard. No important thing was ever won easily. Somehow, some Big Leader was just going to pass some set of laws and people would just comply with them and then Things Would Be Just Fine...isn't that incredibly childish a theory, which no healthy family or group of friends or workplace has ever really obeyed?

For some reason you fail to see the connection between Democratic behavior and the slow trend, but still overall minority, toward social liberalism. I really can't figure out why not. Democratic leaders haven't been able to afford to outrun their electorate- and it's because their supporters are so easily discouraged. We've lost almost all the elderly conservative Democrats that held things back in 1993 and 1994- things are in renewal

This is politics. You pay to play with no guarantees offered. This is not prix fixee dining.

Having said that, of course it has all taken too long and is immensely frustrating. But there is also a fair question of measure and humility. When your dignity is most tested is when you feel the degradation imposed most intensely- it's not fair, but it is so.

Sometimes you just have to choose to have optimism, accept that the job is harder than first thought but the end result is going to be worth it, buckle up and put on workgloves and just go at it. There isn't any other way for it to get done. Black humor and strong coffee are essentials.

That being said, people do get expended in the trenches. Progress comes at a price in lives. But if you've got the energy to whine, you've got the energy to pick up a spade and get digging. Remember that the other side is weakening over time also.

Viriliter agite. Sapere aude. Illegitimis non carborundum.

. . . mostly because you're absolutely right. We've received NOTHING from the Democrats despite all the support we've poured into them. From now on the Democrats have to earn the votes of an increasing number of us, and cannot take our votes or our stances for granted anymore. And it's about damn time.

Clinton lost on Don't Ask Don't Tell. The fault lies not with Clinton on this one but with Republicans and a few Democrats who stood with them on this. Unlike the case with blacks, gays were legally banned from the military (due to sodomy being part of the US military code of conduct). Without an ability to lift that law, which Clinton didn't have, he had no choice on this issue.

On the other hand, ENDA is his fault.

not the strict interpretation of the sodomy laws -- but prosecuting gays in the military.
strict interpretation of the sodomy laws in the military would leave straight military people high and dry too -- so there was maneuver room, no?

By saying you were gay and not celebrate, then one was confessing to having committed sodomy. That isn't the case for straight personel. I would imagine that a gay priest could have argued the point but that would just about be it.

powell acted like a child -- had a tantrum -- and clinton being homophobic, gave in.

if clinton had insisted on the sodomy regulations being rather more strictly enforced -- and you know this is what they were talking about.
it was very specific rules they had to be discussing.

there are probably hundreds of complaints, rumours, suspicions of straight peoples sexual misconduct in the military every year.
had clinton directed, his option as comnder in chief, that these be prosecuted with vigor -- he would have increased the value of his bargaining chip.

he opted to give that chip away in the face of powells hissy fit.

(you know, the people that have typically advocated for the civil rights of those less fortunate than them) turn their back on us because it's politically sound, you have to wonder what else is going to be on the chopping block. Yes a good number of them through the years have given lip service to civil union legislation, ENDA, and ending don't ask don't tell, but none of them is doing anything to change the status quo. You'd think that a few straight democrats in congress could stand up with their gay brethren and actively push for change.

If anything is going to change, we have to do it ourselves. If don't ask don't tell is overturned it will be because 12 gay individuals took the case through the court system. The problem is that there doesn't seem to be enough of us seeking change. I'm 22 years old and I've been involved in gay rights organizations in the little red state in which I'm from since I went to college (five years ago). I have to tell you, most of the men I've met (18-60) don't really care. They got there's (be it a significant other, a nice job they can be out in, cushy tax breaks), who cares about anyone else.

It just doesn't seem right that the handful of us that are pushing for changes have to do it alone. Furthermore it's downright sad that members of the straight community give our cause more support than some of us do.

The dykes I know are all screaming for change. And I don't belong to any organizations. We just constantly keep each other informed with what's going on and show up at protests and fight the haters.

We are currently finishing up a queer anti-RW film (shot in TX & NY) that's going to be premiered in Austin, TX and then at the Angelika in Dallas. Hopefully, we can motivate some people.

Remember, not all of the RW is motivated either! There are apathetic RW fundamentalists, nazis, and archie bunkers just as there are apathetic queers.

Getting disgusted with the Democratic party is perfectly legitimate. Getting disgusted with the gay community may prove to be counter-productive.