Just noticed the "best of DU" on the AA forum wasn't locked

Oh I forgot... there's no need for a "best of DU GLBT edition" thread, because homophobia simply doesn't exist on DU :eyes:

Homophobia doesn't exist on DU.

;)

The Atheists & Agnostics group? 'Cause if that's what you mean I can assure you that recommendations on that group are locked.

Gotcha. Thanks.

And for what it's worth, yeah, there's a lot of homophobia on DU although from my non-GLBT perspective it seems a good deal less than in meat space.

A while back we had the "best of DU- GLBT edition" thread, in which blatantly homophobic statements made by DUers were pointed out there. The thread was locked by mods, because it counted as "calling out" other members. Yet apparently the same standard apparently does not universally apply to the AA thread.

they dont care and they know we dont have a better option

so its pretty much a suck it up and deal, attitude

for both the democratic party and the democratic underground

Well, not nicely, but... um... you know what I mean.

:thumbsup::thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I think you're right. As far as the party is concerned, I don't really see another option yet.

You know, this is their board, and I do respect that, but we should at least ask for them to enforce rules consistently. These are rules THEY wrote, not us, and if we don't follow them, and suffer consequences, fine, but if others can violate those same rules and not suffer the same consequences, then at the very least, they are being discriminatory. Its their right to be discriminatory, but they shouldn't claim otherwise, that is what is hypocritical.

Implying that admins might harbor prejudicial thoughts, or carry out discriminatory practices? Perish the thought! That could Never, Ever happen at DU! :P

We're all supposed to believe that they're wonderful people without any prejudices. Surely all the homophobia that they keep allowing here at DU is simply just a harmless, accidental mistake. :eyes:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=221&topic_id=74605#82011

:shrug:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=221&topic_id=62133

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=221&topic_id=67249

Without one reasonable(or consistent) explanation given by any mod as to why they were locked, yet the thread you pointed out stayed open, even if it was sarcastic, and the one Lithos started here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=221&topic_id=74503

is also not locked.

Indeed, as far as I can tell, either all said threads, including the ones in the AA forum either violate the rules or not. The question is whether the rules are enforced consistently. The only thread that's the exception is this one:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=221&topic_id=71359

Which was, in a way, a call out in the OP of a single poster, if not mentioned by name, and clearly against the rules.

Most of the arguments the Mods and Admins made about this inconsistency has either fallen flat on its face as illogical or was refuted by posts from said mods or Admins themselves.

identify & then delete homophobic posts from the DU archives. I remember being proud of this community that folks would spend time sweeping up what mostly amounted to troll droppings. The early versions of this serial were opened and closed when they got too large by moderation.

As your cited links show however, mission creep seems to have moved us to *current* threads and *members* resulting in rule issues. This OPz expectation of the "Best of DU...?" threads seems to go even further.

Members starting later versions resulted in the old thread being left open. As I'm sure you know, moderation intervention in these threads throughout has frequently included messages on rule boundaries. These have always been a special kinda discussion in the DU universe.

Moderation has defended the purpose behind these threads. As you also cite, admin and moderation are currently hosting "Best of DU...?" and related discussions. Though we generally agree that inconsistencies are an issue, I find your accusation of admin discrimination and subsequent hypocrisy on this basis wholly without merit.

And in my best Forrest Gump: "That's all I have to say about that."

They were locked because they were perceived as calling out DUers. PERCEIVED as such. I started that last one you linked above as more of a tongue-in-cheek attempt to keep it going in a "non-inflammatory" way, and most of the posts to that one were not nearly as helpful as the prior threads' were.

Now again, most of our discussion of homophobia on DU is spread out in different threads on this forum, making it less clear how much homophobia STILL exists and is allowed to fester here.

Can't see the forest through the trees, and all.


Edited to add a couple of lengthy posts from Skinner at the time, back in May, both attempting to explain why the threads were locked, and urging us to alert (which hasn't been so effective after all).

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=221&topic_id=74840&mesg_id=74840

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=221&topic_id=75173&mesg_id=75173

Plz see below. :hi:

Only two were, one in the AA issues forum, and one in this forum.

or posts by current members. I still don't know what you meant by "discussing members not present" as that occurred on the AA threads as well.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=221&topic_id=74503&mesg_id=74545

And again, if posts within a thread are a problem, why can't they be deleted instead of the threads locked, in addition, none of the threads locked HERE in GLBT were locked because they were too long.

- Moderation has occasionally locked threads over-run with issues as long as I've been here.

- As I'm sure you know, enforcement of rules on referring to other threads & posts on the board have relaxed considerably over years past.

- Boundaries on the discussion of memberz behavior are pretty clear:

You are permitted to post polite behavioral corrections to other members of the message board, in direct response to specific instances of incivility, provided that your comments are narrowly focused on the behavior. But you are not permitted to make broad statements about another person's behavior in general, and you are not permitted to post repeated reminders about another person's mistakes.

- Facts notwithstanding, characterizing a member as a homophobe or racist seems both broad and negative:

Do not talk negatively about an individual in a thread where they are not participating.

- IIRC, the "Best of DU...?" thread locking convention changed when the membership took over opening the threads.

- Finally:

Discussion topics pertaining to specific enforcement actions by the moderators are categorically forbidden.

And with that I become desirous of the next thrilling cocoa-flavored melamine treat.

:bounce:

Because, as far as I can tell, quite a few posts in the "Best of..." threads there label people as closet racists, ignorant and other epitaphs. Why are they allowed to do that, yet people in this forum aren't allowed to do something similar in our "Best of..." threads?

According to the excerpt you quoted, such posts are clearly a violation of the rules, and should be either deleted or the threads they are in locked, yet neither has happened.

As far as the last excerpt, I really don't care about that. Obviously many people on this board see an honest inconsistency in the enforcement of the rules on DU, and they should be open in questioning why such an inconsistency exists.

As I said before, this board belongs to the Admins, all of us are merely guests here, however, when the Admins themselves lay down the rules for behavior, the least we should expect is for them to enforce said rules in a non-discriminatory manner.

...makes specific outa bounds.

First, comments about the behavior of tombstoned members are allowed, tho I personally feel they are inappropriate for the "Best of DU...?" threads.

I see no reason to expect parity between the "Best of DU...?" threads any more than other threads on this board. I'm unaware of any protocol which mandates moderation somehow balancing these particular threads. Ironically the genesis of the "Best of DU...?" originates in related problems inherent in our moderation system. Content that receives alerts receives attention; that which doesn't, stands, however unfairly.

If you believe there to be a rule violation, alert and make your case. If repeated pleas via alert do not satisfy, send a private message to a lead moderator. Beyond that, contact admin directly. Tharze nuthin new 'bout any of this.

Yet you still wanna claim that a moderating crew working on consensus containing multiple GLBT members is actively discriminating against the GLBT community? Really? Not every difference is tantamount to a Birmingham fire hose.

Based on admin & moderation history of extending rules and dealing with GLBT issues over the years, I'm inclined to refer to your "inconsistencies" by their technical term: warts. Members, moderators, administrators and the system we operate in all have 'em ... and prolly always will.

I'm also inclined to concur with the member above in that we suffer from crippling trust issues in this country, specifically an inability to confidently meter deference.

Further, in your case, I'm afeared we're dealing with possession by Emersonian hobgoblin, but, hey, thatz jus my arithmetic. If I blew a call ...again... do a fella a favor and queue the instant replay before commencing gesticulations in celebration or condemnation. Cuz ultimately, we need one another to form a majority against those who we share more serious differences with.

We are tolerated -- barely -- by the Democratic Party because we are a reliable source of votes and resources. I mean, it is not like we have anywhere else to go. That does not mean that we are accepted or have any voice or power within the party. We are ALLOWED to be here on sufferance, provided we shut up about GLBT issues.

I welcome efforts to convince me otherwise.

Added: And no, I have no idea why I'm still here. I ask myself that very question every time I see the way anti-gay bigotry and casual prejudice is allowed to thrive on Democratic Underground.

that they intend to allow a certain amount of open prejudice, and that they intend to give homophobic straight people more freedom to speak their mind than LGBT people.

Homophobes are accepted, unless they get too out of hand. We're tolerated, until we speak up to loudly.

I've seen it very clearly with Feminists who seem to get targetted and banned while misogynists run free here at DU. There are now very few vocal feminists left here at DU, but there are a hell of a lot of long-time misogynists. Just like with homophobia, sexism is officially banned but in practice is accepted. The activists and advocates are officially accepted, but in practice don't last long if they speak up.

DU has long been a haven for bigots, and that can't happen accidentally.

I'm not advocating for the locking of threads like that. I'm advocating for the unlocking of similar locked threads (such as those that were locked in the GLBT forum).