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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 11:36 AM
Original message
The Memory of Water
Homeopathy is nonsense and superstition diluted beyond all reason and given as a remedy to the grossly misinformed or scientifically illiterate. And yet there persists that very odd creature, the modern homeopath. While the practice is indistinguishable from ritual and witchcraft (with all due apologies to witches), the modern homeopath would like to cloak himself in the respectability of science. That is the path to acceptance, official recognition, and reimbursement. So homeopaths have added a new head to their hydra of pseudoscience—the memory of water.

--snip--

Homeopathy was invented (it is not accurate to say it was discovered, which would imply it has some basis in reality) by Samuel Hahnemann in the late eighteenth century. Hahnemann developed his principles of homeopathy from anecdote and superstition without any chain of scientific research, evidence, or reasoning. It is therefore no surprise that more than two hundred years later, scientific progress has failed to validate any of Hahnemann’s ideas (House of Commons 2010).

--snip--

Modern defenders have desperately tried to justify homeopathy with scientific-sounding explanations, but they have failed miserably. One such attempt is the notion that water is capable of having memory—that it can physically remember the chemical properties of substances that have been diluted in it.

--snip--

However, the evidence does not support this claim. What has been demonstrated is that water molecules form transient bonds with other water molecules, creating a larger ultrastructure—but these water structures are extremely short-lived. They are not permanent. In fact, research shows that water molecules very efficiently distribute energy from these bonds, making them extremely ephemeral. One such research paper concludes: “Our results highlight the efficiency of energy redistribution within the hydrogen-bonded network, and that liquid water essentially loses the memory of persistent correlations in its structure within 50 fs” (Cowan 2005). That’s fifty femtoseconds, or fifty quadrillionths (10-15) of a second. Contrary to Roy’s claims, water does not hold memory. In fact it is characterized by being extremely efficient at not holding memory. Scientists can argue about whether or not water can display ultrastructure lingering for longer than femtoseconds under certain conditions—but they are arguing over incredibly small fractions of a second.

--

The notion that water has memory is nothing more than a restating of Hahnemann’s superstitious notion that substances can transfer their “vital essence” to other substances. Water memory is another fiction of homeopathy; it is not based upon any science and is implausible in the extreme.
http://www.csicop.org/si/show/the_memory_of_water
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laconicsax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. Rec'd to zero. n/t
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Got it to +1!
Hopefully there aren't that many people afraid of facts.
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laconicsax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. You know there are.
Unfortunate as it may be.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 01:48 PM
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4. Deleted message
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tama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Yeah,
And it's always them others, the other side, and never us who know for sure THEY are wrong:
"It's really just denial, simply a part of the process we humans go through when our preconceptions are shown to be totally wrong."
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Do you think racists are wrong?
What about homophobes?
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tama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Not absolutely
but in relation to certain ethical axioms (that I happen to support), yes.

Thanks for talking to me!
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 07:31 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. And here I thought racism was wrong.
Thanks for setting the record straight!
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tama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Rationally = relatively
Lat. ratio means relation. Of course there also other modes of thinking and experiencing and reacting besides rational relativism.
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Yes, other modes of thinking.
Where it is perfectly acceptable to judge someone based on the color of their skin. Yeah, I get it alright.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 02:02 PM
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17. Deleted message
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Lisa0825 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
5. Rec'd :-)
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tama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
6. Recced too
For those interested:

Montaignier et alii 2011, direct link:
http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/1012/1012.5166v1.pdf

Myers 2011 does not dispute the actual empirical results, it's just a character assassination with no scientific content.

More on the subject:
Matti Pitkänen: DNA & Water Memory: Comments on Montagnier group's Recent Findings
http://dnadecipher.com/index.php/ddj/article/view/8/14



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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 07:45 PM
Response to Original message
10. My water remembers the Guinness I had yesterday. n/t
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bonzotex Donating Member (740 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
11. k/r...n/t
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
12. ...


:thumbsup:

Sid
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 11:16 PM
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13. Deleted message
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