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n2doc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-15-06 01:37 PM
Original message
Clue to flaws in autistic brain
Clue to flaws in autistic brain


Regions of the brain may not communicate with each other as efficiently as they should in people with autism, research suggests. US scientists used sophisticated scans to examine connections in the cerebral cortex - the part of the brain that deals with complex thought. They found evidence of abnormal patterns of brain cell connection in people with autism. The research was presented at a meeting of the Society for Neuroscience.

In some parts of the cortex brain cells made too many connections, and in other parts not enough.

Lead researcher Dr Michael Murias, from the University of Washington, said: "Our findings indicate adults with autism show differences in coordinated neural activity, which implies poor internal communication between the parts of the brain." The researchers analyzed electroencephalography (EEG) scans from 36 adults, half of who had autism. The EEGs, which measure the activity of hundreds of millions of brain cells, were collected while the people were seated and relaxed with their eyes closed for two minutes.The researchers found people with autism particularly showed abnormal patterns of brain cell connection in the temporal lobe, which deals with language.

They argue that the abnormal patterns suggest inefficient and inconsistent communication inside the brains of people with autism.Dr Marius said their work might lead to a way to spot autism at an earlier stage. Autism, a developmental disorder, is estimated to affect one in every 166 children.

more:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6037836.stm
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pooja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-15-06 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
1. and I think it has a lot to do with the shots we are giving our developing
children...
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Lithos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-15-06 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I disagree
I think autism has been around since the beginning. The only rise being that Autism seems linked to the age of the birth parents, with older parents more likely to have a child with Autism.

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nam78_two Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-15-06 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Robert F Kennedy
Edited on Sun Oct-15-06 01:58 PM by nam78_two
had done some work on the ties between Mercury and autism.

ABC was going to air a documentary on it, but pulled it off at the last minute. And its speculated that Big Pharma pushed for that.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/7395411/deadly_immunity/

The federal officials and industry representatives had assembled to discuss a disturbing new study that raised alarming questions about the safety of a host of common childhood vaccines administered to infants and young children. According to a CDC epidemiologist named Tom Verstraeten, who had analyzed the agency's massive database containing the medical records of 100,000 children, a mercury-based preservative in the vaccines -- thimerosal -- appeared to be responsible for a dramatic increase in autism and a host of other neurological disorders among children. "I was actually stunned by what I saw," Verstraeten told those assembled at Simpsonwood, citing the staggering number of earlier studies that indicate a link between thimerosal and speech delays, attention-deficit disorder, hyperactivity and autism. Since 1991, when the CDC and the FDA had recommended that three additional vaccines laced with the preservative be given to extremely young infants -- in one case, within hours of birth -- the estimated number of cases of autism had increased fifteenfold, from one in every 2,500 children to one in 166 children.

Even for scientists and doctors accustomed to confronting issues of life and death, the findings were frightening. "You can play with this all you want," Dr. Bill Weil, a consultant for the American Academy of Pediatrics, told the group. The results "are statistically significant." Dr. Richard Johnston, an immunologist and pediatrician from the University of Colorado whose grandson had been born early on the morning of the meeting's first day, was even more alarmed. "My gut feeling?" he said. "Forgive this personal comment -- I do not want my grandson to get a thimerosal-containing vaccine until we know better what is going on."


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Lithos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-15-06 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. If it were mercury
Then there would have been rather obvious statistical breakouts of Austism. The long term Minamata exposure did cause birth defects and other developmental problems, but no statistically variant Autism. Same with those in the old Hatting industry, whose members often became mad (hence the phrase mad as a hatter) from the use of Mercury.

There are NO statistical or other verifiable links between Mercury and Autism.

The only known statistical issues I'm aware of relatating to Austism are:

1) Older parents
2) A growth pattern where the infant's head size experiences a rather large period of growth (from 10-20% statistical range to 80-90% of range) that places them from being very small for their age to very large. The type of growth I believe is during the time period where white brain matter is being developed.

L-
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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-16-06 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #5
19. RFK Jr's work in this regard is extraordinarily sloppy
And conclusions based on his work are equally so.

Whatever else can be said for his valiant efforts to combat industrial pollution, his campaign against thimerosal vaccines is informed by fear and sloppy science.
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varkam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-15-06 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. In addition
Another possible explanation for the rise (or at least for part of the increase) is that medical and mental health professionals are getting better at diagnosing autism via increased awareness and training, which could help explain the increase.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-15-06 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. That wouldn't explain a 15 fold increase in a short period of time.
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varkam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-15-06 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. As I said
Another possible explanation for the rise (or at least for part of the increase) is that medical and mental health professionals are getting better at diagnosing autism via increased awareness and training, which could help explain the increase.

Further, the rates of autism in the past have been quite low and it was often neglected by researchers. A fifteen fold increase isn't as dramatic if the original numbers were low (e.g. 15 X 2 = 30).
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-15-06 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. I think a lot of it is environmental and better diagnostics
I agree, age is a factor but Tommy's birthmom/firstmom was only 20 when she gave birth. BTW, it's his 5th B-day today! :D
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varkam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-15-06 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Have a look
Thimerosal is the boogeyman when it comes to the vaccine / autism "debate".

http://www.jr2.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/band118/b118-5.html
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-15-06 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. It's genetic, IMO
Autism Spectrum Disorders are extremely common in my mom's side of the family. No one was suprised when I was diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome.

Oh, and you vaccine-haters need to talk to people who grew before WW2. My great grandparents had 15 kids, 5 died before first birthday from TB.
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Kittycat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-15-06 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. I'm no vaccine hater, however...
Edited on Sun Oct-15-06 02:55 PM by Kittycat
I find it unnecessary to include the preservative - if it can be done so, until some further testing is done.

Some forms or larger amounts of mercury can enter the bloodstream, and when injected - it goes right there. This mercury will be passed on to the child, as well as the mother, where it readily enters the brain of both, and can become trapped for long periods of time. In the case of a fetus, they have no way of processing the mercury out of their system. Tests have been done on newborns that shows the mercury in the child's hair/cells. Which is a much greater problem.

I mention this aspect specifically (prenatal distribution), because some Pregnant women are also given shots with mercury/thimerosol without that information being disclosed. I recently discovered on my own research that the RhoGam shots I've been given contain high levels of Thimerosol. I'm concerned, because a few months ago, I was given only as a precaution, without any signs of it's use being necessary (cramping, but no sign of blood or discharge - even on U/S at 6.5wks pregnant). I was given two shots in my last pregnancy, fortunately my surviving son is fine - but he did receive all the other shots, mostly because the NICU required them during his stay. Now, I still have to get another shot at 28 weeks, then after birth. I'm very angry that I wasn't informed about the risks with the shot, or that mercury was included. I would have refused the preventative - because it was completely unnecessary (rather the opposite and just a skiddish ER dr that gave it). When you're told "we're giving you this", you aren't often given any side effects or other accompaning information, and made to believe it's life or death or just completely fine to do - when it's not.

Now I'm going to be faced with the decision of whether or not I take my child's mercury levels up 15+ times the recommended alotment, by doing early vax on the drs schedule. Or if we're going to delay them over the course of 2 years. I don't like being in the position where my child's health might potentially be at undo risk. So do I risk him getting sick or do I risk him becoming autistic.

And just because the FDA says there is no direct connection - it doesn't mean that one doesn't exist. It merely means that they cannot figure out the connection, and call the occurance a casual relationship between Autism and Thimerasol. Maybe it is a genetic trate, that's triggered by mercury poisoning, but at the alarming rate that it's increased since the 80's - it's enough to pull it from the shelves all together. And what's worse, is that it appears that the government is protecting Big Pharma from any liability - thereby not giving them incentive to retract the preservative from their vaccines. It's cheaper for pharma to store this stuff (thus the need for the preservative), than to make smaller batches and risk it expiring sooner. Also, if you remember, the homeland security act freed drug companies from any liability in lawsuits that implicate thimerosol. How convenient. Furthermore, why is the use of Thimerasol banned in other developed countries? It's been banned since the early 80's I believe. But not in the US.

So, believe what you will, but there is a direct increase in autism rates with the use of thimerosol drugs. California had an increase of 237% between 1987-98. Maryland reported a 513% increase between 1993-98, with other states reporting similar findings. During this time, the number vaccines given to children under the age of 18mo topped upwards of 21 (including combined shots). That's an insane risk.

We aren't denying the benefits of the vaccine against illness and disease - we're saying that we don't want to exchange one bad for another. It's our chiildren's life at stake, and furthermore - what impact these children will have on society in the long run when the parents are gone or no longer able to care for them.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-15-06 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. You will want to check the facts on this yourself, but
I think I read that the CDC did order them to take the mercury out of the baby vaccines -- while refusing to acknowledge that the mercury may have been causing any problems.

If I were you, I'd think about adjusting that vaccine schedule, at least. I think they give too many vaccines at a time. If the baby has a problem, how do you know which one caused it?
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Kittycat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-15-06 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Yes and No
Edited on Sun Oct-15-06 03:58 PM by Kittycat
Initially, they were told to stop including it - but they could use up any inventory on hand first.

But, when i spoke with the nurse regarding the Flu Vaccine, she said they offer a Pediatric version for children under 3 and pregnant women. It's marketed as thimerosol free, but it's not. She said it still contains trace amounts, and it's listed on the packaging ingredients. But apparently, the level is low enough that the government isn't making them report or market it in such a manner. Similar to how they do the transfats (if it's less than one gram, they don't have to list it on the label, and can say it contains none per serving).

None of this matters when it comes to RhoGam though. It contains like 25mg of thimerosol per dose.

We just need to keep on protecting those pharma companies - I mean who would pay for all of our congressmen and senators campaigns otherwise?
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-15-06 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. There is nothing worse
than feeling you might have made the wrong decision in a scary pregnancy situation -- I know, I was there. I'm so sorry you're having to go through this. Chances are very high that your baby will be perfectly fine. But that's little comfort, I know.

From what I understand, that vaccination schedule is more of a matter of convenience (the doctor's) than anyone else's. If your baby isn't at high risk (not exposed to lots of germs) then I don't see why you shouldn't adjust it. Several of those vaccines didn't even exist for my older two children -- and yet , all of a sudden, simply because they existed, they were supposed to be critical for my third child to receive.
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-15-06 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. I think rescheduling and streching the vaccines out over a longer
period is a good idea.

A couple years ago I took my sister-in-law's new puppy to vet for his first round of shots. There was a relatively long list of vaccines he was supposed to get, but the vet only gave him three and said he should be brought back in 6 weeks for some of the others (with no additional office fee). When I asked why, he told me it was because there was some evidence that too many shots at one time are bad for puppies' immune systems. (Though not every vet believes this, and there is also a convenience factor with puppy shots).

My first thought was, if they're worried about a puppy getting too many shots at a time, what about human babies? I believe in vaccines, but if I had a child they would get them over a longer period of time.
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bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. That is interesting.
I've heard that with thimerosal, as well, that veterinarians were concerned about what mercury the dogs were getting before pediatricians were about children. I think there has been a massive disinformation campaign trying to steer people from thinking about it.


A general comment after skimming other posts - It's my understanding that it is genetic - but not only genetic. That environmental factors (including mercury) probably play a role. And that the immune system being adversely affected can also be a factor for people - probably mostly from getting too many vaccines at once (but there could be other causes of immune dysfunction - including environmental ones - as well). Having thimerosal in vaccines is an unnecessary risk.
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-15-06 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
7. thanks for posting, bookmarking
:hi:
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-15-06 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
9. I am actually presenting on autism to that very conference on Tuesday
it's a "Social Issues Roundtable", in which my role is to describe what the life of a person with autism is like, so that, hopefully, the neuroscientists will be able to conceive of interventions for us (autism isn't a disease per se, so you can't "cure" it).

One analogy I intend to use is to computer networking; it appears as though the "neurotypical" brain wiring resembles a client-server model, while the autistic one is more like a peer-to-peer network. Not "flawed", just a different architecture, running a different OS. The issue becomes one of compatibility with NT (not Windows NT :-) ).
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-15-06 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. interesting, we're thinking of getting a touch screen computer
for my son. If you have any recommendations for programs etc, I'd love to hear about it.
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