Death by “alternative” medicine: Who’s to blame?

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=15

Here’s where things got interesting. Apparently, this woman was a die-hard believer in “alternative medicine.” And I do mean “die hard,” as she will quite likely die very hard for her beliefs, if she has not already in the interval between this tumor board and now. She absolutely refused any surgery or treatment for her cancer. It was explained to her that a less than 1 cm tumor with no evidence of spread to the lymph nodes carried a highly favorable prognosis, with upwards of 93% long term survival with proper surgery and radiation therapy combined with adjuvant chemotherapy and/or hormonal therapy. Here was a patient surgeons love, because we have a very high probability of curing her.

This woman would have none of it. She wanted to pursue “alternative” medicine. And pursue it she did, with a vengeance. For three years, she disappeared off the radar screen.

A few weeks prior to the tumor board, she had reappeared in this surgeon’s office. In the interim, she had tried Essiac tea, homeopathy, Hoxsey therapy, the Gerson treatment, and Reiki therapy, among others, all the while visiting various “healers.” The results? If you’ve been reading here, you can guess the result.

<snip>

Not only had the tumor progressed, but it had progressed a lot. When the surgeon saw her again, now more than three years after her diagnosis, her tumor had grown to 5-6 cm in size. It was now stuck to the chest wall, distorting her nipple, and ulcerating through the skin in a five centimeter area of bleeding, disgusting goo. Indeed, the surgeon even showed a picture of it. In addition, she had developed easily palpable axillary lymph nodes (the lymph nodes under the arm) on physical exam and complained of bone pain strongly suggestive of metastases to the bone. Even if she did not now have metatastic disease to the bone, her chances of cure had been vastly diminished, as she had clearly moved up from a highly curable clinical Stage I to a difficult to cure clinical stage IIIC. (If she had bone metastases, she was no longer curable at all.) This patient was in serious trouble. You would think that, finally–finally–she would have realized her mistake in not having gone with surgery and conventional medicine.

You would be mistaken.

It's a long post, and these excerpted paras just give you the basic story. What do you all think?

on edit: apparently I posted my first draft. I didn't mean to imply a doctor is responsible for his/her patients' decisions!

responsibility.

The person is simply a dipshit.

Penn & Teller's "Bullshit" did a great piece on alternative "medicine" exposing it as complete...well...bullshit.

They had a fake doctor play a kazoo near a person with back pain and they claimed they could feel the pain exit their body. A fucking kazoo!

you do not look very good. Alternative medicine has much to offer. Often
when used in conjunction with allopathic medicine it can be remarkable.
Other times it is extremely successful in curing on its own.

When you laugh at what you do not understand, you are the only one who looks foolish.
Nearly five years ago my husband was struck with a debilitating disease that left
him a quadriplegic. His doctors told us he would never recover. He would never walk again
and he would certainly never work again.

He nows does all three. His healing was supported by combination of excellent establishment
and alternative treatments. Even his very pessimistic surgeon calls it amazing and now
uses my husband's story to his patients to inspire them.

If his only resource had been regular medical care, I would now be caring for a
quadriplegic instead of sharing my life with a productive man who enjoys life to
the fullest.

Often when used in conjunction with allopathic medicine it can be remarkable.

This stuck out for me. If you use something in conjunction with medicine, then how can you tell what had the effect and what didn't?

The surgeon operated on the spine and removed the infection that would have
killed my husband in a manner of hours. Yet that very night he told me prior to
the surgery that my husband was and would remain a quadriplegic. Once the damage
is done to the spine and the nerves are destroyed due to ischemia, there is within
the conventional medical model little chance for recovery.

His condition was further complicated when he could not stay on the normal steroid
treatments which reduce damage to the cord due to his infection and elevated blood
sugar. He did remain on IV antibiotics for six weeks to cure the infection.

So conventional medicine saved his life. It did not restore his cord damage nor did
it promise too. He also received excellent PT. Go to any Rehab hospital and see how
many quadriplegic and paraplegic patients receive excellent PT and never walk or leave
a wheel chair.

His recovery went beyond the explanations and the models of conventional medicine.
He, himself has incorporated alternative care into his own health care practice as well
as his own life for many years. He was fully committed from the beginning to go beyond
the expectations of his physicians. He used his own expertise and the support of
alternative practitioners to achieve his remarkable recovery after the mainstream
doctors said they had done all they could.

"He also received excellent PT."

Physical Therapy ain't exactly altie-med. Also, if you're saying that because your husband improved beyond the range of what the surgeon said, then did it ever occur to you that the surgeon was simply wrong? I know the altie-med crowd is fond of saying that docs are usually wrong about everything, so why not now? Is it possible that your husband made a recovery on the basis of PT and his own body's healing?

"He also received excellent PT. Go to any Rehab hospital and see how
many quadriplegic and paraplegic patients receive excellent PT and never walk or leave
a wheel chair."

His doctors did not expect that he would recover PT or no Pt. All who
experience paralysis receive PT; not many walk again. Perhaps you do
not understand how limited current conventional treatment for spinal
cord damage is. If you did, you would not be so skeptical of my husband's
success outside of modern medicine.

You merely stated that your husband received excellent PT. The fact that many who receive PT do not walk again is totally irrelevant, as many also do - without the benefit of altie-med, I might add.

Now, please answer my questions:

They are extremely difficult to treat and seldom reversible. You are severely mistaken
when you state that many recovery from this severe and devastating injury. Most do not.

Your agenda in responding to my posts is to negate the possibility that my husband's
recovery was in anyway attributable to anything other then conventional therapies.

Fine. Nothing I say or do will convince you otherwise. Your mind is made up. I use this
one example of alternative healing because it is so dramatic. I have experienced and
seen many more. My hsuband and I work within a mainstream healthcare practice. We offer
many alternative and complementary adjuncts to the mainsteam health care we deliver and
get excellent results.

We are frankly happy to have so many additional resources to offer our patients and ourselves.
If you choose to allow your prejudices to keep you from benefiting from additional healing modalities
that is your choice.

One post script: you ask if it is possible that his recovery was the result of his body's healing.
It was; all healing is. The theory behind most alternative medicine is to support the abiltiy
of our bodies to heal naturally. So on that we do agree.

Fine. Nothing I say or do will convince you otherwise. Your mind is made up. I use this
one example of alternative healing because it is so dramatic. I have experienced and
seen many more. My hsuband and I work within a mainstream healthcare practice. We offer
many alternative and complementary adjuncts to the mainsteam health care we deliver and
get excellent results.

My mind is made up? You are the one who refuses to even acknowledge the possibility that your husband recovered on his own and that the altie-med did nothing to speed his recovery. For my money, I'll say that certain forms of altie-med might be beneficial, but there's no actual evidence (aside from anecdotal reports, which is not reliable) demonstrating efficacy. If there were, then it wouldn't be "alternative" medicine, it would just be medicine. If such evidence becomes available, then I'm more than happy to change my mind. Something tells me though, that no matter how many times this crap is debunked, you're going to keep right on believing. You've got too much history in it, too much invested in it. That's fine, but don't come and tell me that I'm closed-minded because I don't believe there's a teapot in orbit between Mars and the Earth.

We are frankly happy to have so many additional resources to offer our patients and ourselves.
If you choose to allow your prejudices to keep you from benefiting from additional healing modalities
that is your choice.

I'm only prejudiced against unscientific claptrap that wants to be taken seriously and called a legitimate treatment modality before it can back up any claims that it makes. If drinking water and eating sugar pills is what does it for you, then please, be my guest - but there's a big difference between opting to do something yourself and advocating for it in a public forum. I'm not about to come into your home and tell you what you can and cannot do to yourself, but don't expect me to sit quietly if you want to spout off about how wonderful altie-med is. If you don't want an argument or discussion, then I advise you not to say anything on the matter.

One post script: you ask if it is possible that his recovery was the result of his body's healing.
It was; all healing is. The theory behind most alternative medicine is to support the abiltiy
of our bodies to heal naturally. So on that we do agree.

No, we don't agree. You say that altie-med "supports the ability of our bodies to heal naturally", which is wonderfully vague BTW. I say it doesn't do jack-all, but that the body goes right on healing. I mean, maybe certain forms of altie-med activate the placebo effect and, in that sense, it does something - but there's no actual effect going on. There's no reactions, no realignment of the chakras, no calming of the auras - that's all just magical thinking.

Your reactivity is explosive. "There are none so blind as those who would not see." There
is significant evidence for much of what is call complementary medicine. NIH is studying it
to learn more.

There is the Chi Gong practitioner that I know personally who works mostly with patients referred
by Mayo Clinic (He, by the way is one of healers who treated my husband), Dr. Andrew Weil who
researches and teaches complementary medicine at Arizona University with highly respected results
and Dr. Herbert Benson from Harvard Medical School who proved the medical benefits of meditation.

I know personally of three alternative healing modalities the Pentagon is using for PTSD.
These are proven effective and much cheaper than drugs. I personally use all of these tools
myself. My husband used them in his healing as well.

These are just a few alternatives that are supported by clinical evidence. There are many more.
Acupuncture for one is proven therapeutic for pain and can be used instead of anesthesia in
many circumstances. Research is showing other benefits from it as well.

You are sadly missing out on a health care revolution if you think this is all "unscientific
claptrap." You are quite explicit in your accusations that we who "believe" in alternative modalities
are naive and fall for fairy tales. You are quite mistaken in your arrogance. Most of the people that
I know who are practitioners working in these area many of whom are mainstream physicians by the way,
and those who are seeking these treatments are highly educated and intelligent. They greatly
value their health and recognize the limits of our conventional health care. They use MSM when it
helps and know to try other modalities when it fails or is of limited values.

People who appreciate the added benefits of these alternative modalities are those who take responsibility
for their own health. They are willing to go out side of the insurance system to pay for their own
care. They are much less likely to burden our overstrained delivery system or insurance either.

Lastly I do not understand where your anger originates. No one is forcing you to try anything other
than what you are comfortable with. Relax cortisol is definitely not good for your health.

And of course I love discussions otherwise why in the hell would I be here.

Your reactivity is explosive. "There are none so blind as those who would not see." There
is significant evidence for much of what is call complementary medicine. NIH is studying it
to learn more.

Show me the data. What modalities are they looking at? I'll be waiting. Again, if you show me the evidence that shit works, then I'll believe it works. Of course, like I said, once something is shown to work, it's no longer "complimentary" medicine. It's. Just. Medicine.

There is the Chi Gong practitioner that I know personally who works mostly with patients referred
by Mayo Clinic (He, by the way is one of healers who treated my husband), Dr. Andrew Weil who
researches and teaches complementary medicine at Arizona University with highly respected results
and Dr. Herbert Benson from Harvard Medical School who proved the medical benefits of meditation.

Improper appeal to authority.

I know personally of three alternative healing modalities the Pentagon is using for PTSD.
These are proven effective and much cheaper than drugs. I personally use all of these tools
myself. My husband used them in his healing as well.

Improper appeal to authority, anecdotal evidence. What modalities are they using? Show me the data.

These are just a few alternatives that are supported by clinical evidence. There are many more.
Acupuncture for one is proven therapeutic for pain and can be used instead of anesthesia in
many circumstances. Research is showing other benefits from it as well.

On acupuncture I agree with - it's being subsumed into actual medicine, though, and taken out of the altie-med category. Oh, and because it is found to be beneficial does not mean that it's affecting "Qi pathways", or that there is any such thing as Qi.

You are sadly missing out on a health care revolution if you think this is all "unscientific
claptrap." You are quite explicit in your accusations that we who "believe" in alternative modalities
are naive and fall for fairy tales. You are quite mistaken in your arrogance. Most of the people that
I know who are practitioners working in these area many of whom are mainstream physicians by the way,
and those who are seeking these treatments are highly educated and intelligent. They greatly
value their health and recognize the limits of our conventional health care. They use MSM when it
helps and know to try other modalities when it fails or is of limited values.

Even generally intelligent people can be incredibly stupid from time to time. And, again, to say that conventional care has limits does not mean that altie-med can overcome those limits. For instance, many very intelligent people believe that God created the Earth 6,000 years ago.

Lastly I do not understand where your anger originates. No one is forcing you to try anything other
than what you are comfortable with. Relax cortisol is definitely not good for your health.

I'm actually not that angry. I come across that way, but it's really more for effect.

Oh, and you should re-read what I wrote: I understand that no one is trying to force me to do anything, but I...I'm not going to bang it all out again. Go back and re-read my last post if you're interested in what I have to say about that.

the outcome of spinal injuries is quite unpredictable in many cases.

Very roughly, there are three categories of spinal injuries:

(1) Complete lesions of the spinal cord, where the spinal cord is transected, leaving the patient paralyzed below the site of the lesion. If this is the case, then there is indeed no chance of recovery from the paralysis, though people can often benefit a lot from rehabilitation, and improve in their ability to perform daily life activities, by using muscles that are not affected.

(2) Incomplete lesions of the spinal cord, where part of the cord is damaged but part is intact. Depending on the extent of the injury, and its exact location, and appropriate physiotherapy, outcomes can range from almost no disability to disabilities almost as severe as from a complete injury. The ultimate outcome can be VERY hard to predict at the beginning.

(3) Damage only to the bone, without any injury to the spinal cord. If this is the case, then there will be no paralysis. It is *not* always possible at the beginning to be sure that this is the case, as sometimes, even with bone-only damage, there can be concussion of the spinal cord, resulting in early symptoms similar to those of a cord lesion.

So patients in the second or third category can and often do show outcomes much better than the initial prognosis.

I am very glad that your husband made a good recovery!

Except I do not need it. My husband and I lived it. I spent many hours in the early days
of his illness educating myself on the effects of this injury. His injury was while in
the second catagory extensive and profound, he had an epidural infection that significantly
damaged his cord from C3 to C7. Nor as I have said the normal course of treatment with steroids
following surgery to reduce swelling and further damage was not available due to the infection itself.

Those physicians who evaluated his MRI's or knew of his post-surgical condition were quite
blunt in the prognosis.

If it helps those of you who choose to look the other way to the benefits of alternatives in addition
to conventional medicine, to diminish what we experienced, that is your choice. We experienced
what we experienced. And as I have said upthread, this is not the only healing experience we
have had using the support of complimentary modalities, just the most dramatic.

Frankly when I experience a health challenge I will use what works with the least risk and
the most effective results and I do not care how it is classified. I have been doing
this for many decades and I am extremely satisfied with the results.

I am so happy for you and your husband's recovery with both conventional and alternative treatments.

This is the path I always take, too - diagnosis and possibilities of treatments from the specialists, then the decision to use all, part or none of their suggestions, complemented by, or sole use of, alternative treatments.

It is definitely the choice and responsibility of the person seeking help - to accept or to refuse any treatment, IMO.

DemEx

I know that, among other things, low level laser therapy is being used to regenerate spinal nerves. But I doubt that this is actually used much clinically. I think LLLT saved my father in law's foot, which had a huge ulcer on it after a hospital stay. In any case, I certainly agree that there are treatments out there that are very effective, and are not being used by mainstream doctors, for whatever reason. Usually after a few years the therapy is adopted. Remember the Australian doctor that infected himself with h. pylori to prove that antibiotics treat ulcers? They knew it for years before it was adopted by mainstream doctors. And a lot of people suffered in the meantime.

that is a great testament to the benefits of complementary medicine!

The doctor's responsibility is to present me with an accurate diagnosis, information about the condition, and his/her best treatment option. That's where the responsibility ends, IMO.

That's a pretty strange question. Doctors get lots of non-compliant patients-alcoholics that won't quit drinking, smokers that won't quit smoking, people with high cholesterol that go to McDonald's every day, overweight patients who won't get moving, as well as cancer patients that choose some other type of treatment, or no treatment at all. In this latter category there are most likely very few people, but in all cases lots of these patients die as a result of their decisions. Many would rather have a higher risk of death than change their habits.

This all has to do with patient choice. The doctor has zero responsibility for the patient who chooses something different than what he/she suggests or prescribes.

I posted a draft; I don't mean to assert that a doctor is responsible for a patient's decisions!

Glad you got it in the edit time. I do the same thing sometimes--post something and then it seems to say something entirely different from what was in my head.

on reading was surprised to find that a great number of the components of chemotherapy are extracted from plants.

Thus plants are capable of healing and reversing cancer - one just has to get the correct ones. Sometimes, the alternative therapy people do not have the money to determine which plants are best, and how to determine the dosage.

i'm currently in the midst of a very painful auto-immune flare-up, and meds are not working. I'm trying to learn more about herbal and other nutritional remedies to control pain and my whacked-out autoimmune system.

I googl'd "Jack Challem" and found some interesting writing he's done, and the Amazon reviews were generally positive. I've ordered this one and the book about mood & food. It will be interesting to see what he has to say, and how he backs it up scientifically. So far, mainstream medicine has failed to really help me, and I'm open to exploring other options -- i don't expect a cure, but it sure would be nice to live with a little less pain and fatigue.

Thanks for the lead!

and was using the alternative medicine as a cover, or something. In any event, I think there was probably more going on psychologically than just an attachment to alternative medicine.

Are you really going to try to use this story to indict everyone who uses Vitamin C for a cold, or gets a massage? Because I use some supplements, am I therefore the equivalent of this woman, or of someone who likes to drink their own pee?

It's the binary absolutism of this debate that I find so distasteful.

and someone who opts for woo rather than life-saving treatment. That's not to say that the vitamin C is going to help ward off a cold, but it's a cold and not cancer.

would you opt for the surgery?