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This country was blanketed with fall-out during the 50's and early 60's.

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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 10:52 AM
Original message
This country was blanketed with fall-out during the 50's and early 60's.
It's not much talked about, and I don't know if every spot was hit, but there were areas that were hot spots. My question is this: have there been any studies investigating whether the fallout has anything to do with some of the ills now plaguing us: increased autism, fibromylagia, Chronic fatigue syndrome etc? I'm not suggesting the fallout caused all of these things or even all cases. I'm just wondering if it has any connection to any of these things.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
1. The wind blows west. people west of Nevada and New Mexico probably weren't exposed.
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M155Y_A1CH Donating Member (921 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. Don't know if it's true, but...
I just saw an NCIS episode where they showed how authentication of older art pieces is done and one of the tests was for low-level radiation. The claim they made was that EVERYTHING in the world in existance at that time above ground in the WHOLE world was exposed to radiation. If the art did not have this level it would have to be a fake.
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LiberalEsto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
2. Excelllent question
I would like to know where my fibromyalgia came from.
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tiptoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-07-09 07:47 AM
Response to Reply #2
13. (have you considered...
Edited on Mon Sep-07-09 07:51 AM by tiptoe

...or ever tested your vitamin D status?)

The last decade has seen discoveries linking Vitamin D deficiency to numerous diseases. Regarding fibromyalgia and chronic diseases:

http://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&channel=s&hl=en&source=hp&q=%2Bfibromyalgia+%2B%22vitamin+d+deficiency%22&btnG=Google+Search


See, too: Myths, FAQ, "...Vitamin D: A Real Missing Link..." Prescription=D2 vs D3, Testing, Optimal Ranges


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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
3. Saint George. Look it up. There was a Western movie made there, full of
dust kicked up by the horses and wagons.

Almost all of the actors died of some cancer or another.

Redstone
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M155Y_A1CH Donating Member (921 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. Naturally occurring radiation, I'm told
I heard about this decades ago and the claim was that the radioactive dust in Utah was natural uranium deposits at ground level.
John Wayne's thoat hey-yah.
Did you know he did ads for cigarettes that "comfort the T-zone". I can't remember the brand but the claim was that they were good for you!
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. Downwinders in Utah, especially, had huge cancer rates
and lost a lot of livestock when above ground testing was going on.

As for the westerns, that was probably an additional reason the location was moved to Italy. It was hardly cheap moving actors and gear to Italy and back and the cheaper cost of Italian labor just helped them break even.
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tinrobot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-08-09 01:26 AM
Response to Reply #3
16. Actually wasn't a Western, but an "Eastern"
The 1956 movie was "The Conqueror" starring John Wayne as... Ghengis Khan. Not his best movie.

Of 220 people who worked on the movie, 91 contracted cancer by the 1980's according to this article:

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/374/did-john-wayne-die-of-cancer-caused-by-a-radioactive-movie-set
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
4. Maybe It's Why Life Expectancy Has Increased 15 Years Since Then
Who knows?
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enlightenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
8. Here are a few links to maps that show fallout for the period.
I can't answer the questions you've raised!

http://www.260press.com/nuclear-fallout-maps.htm

http://www.idealist.ws/maps.php
(this site is more critical of the accuracy of fallout maps)
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safeinOhio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Could also relate to amount of milk
drank during the period. Fallout settled on grass, ate by cows>concentrated in milk.
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. I think the maps look a lot more accurate than they are.
They're probably generally accurate, but they won't show random hot spots. To give people some idea of the levels we're talking about, Kodak in Rochester, New York had problems after one shot with newly manufactured film fogging.

http://www.ieer.org/latest/iodnart.html

I don't think the data is out there to do more than general epidemiology. No one can say their cancer came from a bomb test, but we can say look, here, this county had 50 cases where normally we would expect 5. I was wondering if anything other than cancer and thyroid trouble had been tied to the tests. One of the symptoms of low level radiation poisoning is lingering fatigue. Sound familiar?

https://www.asrt.org/Content/ThePublic/AboutRadiologicProcedures/RT/CopingwithFatigue.aspx

I found this just now when looking up radiation poisoning:

http://www.chronicfatiguetreatments.com/wordpress/treatments/radiation-chronic-fatigue/

I guess I'm not the only one curious about this.
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newfie11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 08:17 AM
Response to Original message
11. I remember the piles of uranium ore at Ambrosia Lake NM
All sitting there blowing in the wind through a chain link fence as my school bus went past. The piles were at least 10 feet high and there were many many of them.
I remember picking up the core of yellow ore that were left laying around on the open range land. My Dad was an electrician wiring some of the mines. This was 1958. We were only there for 4-5 months then moved on to another job in another state (not involved with radiation).
Six years later my Dad was dead from stomach cancer. While he did not smoke he always had an unlit cigar in his mouth.
I knew several kids that died of leukemia in Albuquerque during the time they were testing bombs at Jackass Flats in NV.

Years later I became a registered radiological technologist so radiation has been a large part of my life.

People are still dying from the effects of those mines. You have only to look at the Navajo population in the areas around the mines. Then of course the Down winders have records of health problems.

Read on about the half life of the 3 isotopes from uranium ore (remember this is the half life of UNPROCESSED uranium not the same type being exploded in bombs):


Natural uranium consists of three isotopes: uranium-238, uranium-235, and uranium-234. Uranium isotopes are radioactive. The nuclei of radioactive elements are unstable, meaning they are transformed into other elements, typically by emitting particles (and sometimes by absorbing particles). This process, known as radioactive decay, generally results in the emission of alpha or beta particles from the nucleus. It is often also accompanied by emission of gamma radiation, which is electromagnetic radiation, like X-rays. These three kinds of radiation have very different properties in some respects but are all ionizing radiation--each is energetic enough to break chemical bonds, thereby possessing the ability to damage or destroy living cells.


Summary of Uranium Isotopes
Isotope Percent in natural uranium No. of Protons No. of Neutrons Half-Life (in years)
Uranium-238 99.284 92 146 4.46 billion
Uranium-235 0.711 92 143 704 million
Uranium-234 0.0055 92 142 245,000

Uranium-238, the most prevalent isotope in uranium ore, has a half-life of about 4.5 billion years; that is, half the atoms in any sample will decay in that amount of time. Uranium-238 decays by alpha emission into thorium-234, which itself decays by beta emission to protactinium-234, which decays by beta emission to uranium-234, and so on. The various decay products, (sometimes referred to as "progeny" or "daughters") form a series starting at uranium-238. After several more alpha and beta decays, the series ends with the stable isotope lead-206.
http://www.ieer.org/fctsheet/uranium.html


Now the mining is also being done by In-situ leaching. If there are fractures in the rocks this can get into drinking water and destroy water wells.

This is the same type of drilling being done for oil in some mines. It has caused problems in some areas even though geologist stated there were no fractures in the rock formation.wells


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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. I think the connection with cancer is acknowledged even if no one
is willing to take responsibility. I don't think you can say this person's cancer is normal and that person's was caused by radiation. That makes it hard to get people's attention because we end up dealing with statistics instead of persons.

What I haven't heard before and what struck me is the similarity between the fatigue of fibromylagia and chronic fatigue syndrome with the fatigue of those exposed to low level doses. Again, I suspect these diseases may have multiple causes, but I wonder if some of them are from radiation.
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-08-09 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. I have researched everything I could find on fibromyalgia for many years
I had this before it had a name. It was a doctor from England who first mentioned it to me when no doctors here had heard of it yet. There seemed to be so many elements to it that I feared nothing would ever be nailed down. Many doctors believed it was a sleep disorder but that did not answer all the questions. Then came the metabolic school who believed we all had subclinical hypothyroid disease. Well, we did but correcting that did not solve all the problems. Then came a doctor who discovered a connection to a malformation in the bones of the neck and some patients got well after surgical correction. But not all of them got well as the result of the surgery. About 2 years ago I found the following article which is the first thing I've read in 20 years that tied all the elements together. Of course, I don't know for a fact that this is the total answer but it does seem to tie it all together.

http://www.earthclinic.com/CURES/fibromyalgia.html#cause
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-08-09 12:57 AM
Response to Original message
15. My husband is a downwind survivor of Nevada's nuclear testing
He remembers watching the mushroom clouds from the steps of his schoolhouse in southern Nevada. He has followed the news about the results for years and confirms to me that southern Utah was the hardest hit area. He also says there are some remote pockets far away that took hits due to the various trade winds. Increased cancer rates in areas hard hit are confirmed and accepted. As for the other diseases mentioned there has not been much of a tie in to radiation on these but these diseases are likely due to various changes in the environment. In the case of Fibromyalgia, a compelling case has been made, in my mind, for fluoridation being at the root of it.
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