"Why H1N1 isn't just the seasonal flu". Very interesting information

According to Winnipeg intensive care doctor Anand Kumar who participated as an expert in the WHO advisory meeting to develop updated guidance on the management of H1N1 disease.

snip

"It is a very different virus," he said. "It does attach to the deep lung tissue in people. When it does, it creates a very bad viral pneumonia, one of the worst we've ever seen. ... This is the sickest bunch of people I've seen, as a group."

Other experts speculate that deaths are occurring when the body essentially turns on itself with an extreme immune response to the virus, a phenomenon sometimes called a "cytokine storm," and often seen with seasonal flu, too. Ironically, robust young people with strong immune systems may be more susceptible to such a reaction, scientists theorize.

"In essence, they die because their own body, in its attempt to fight off the influenza virus, actually kills them," said Dr. Gerald Evans, the Kingston ,Ont.,-based president of the Association of Medical Microbiology and Infectious Disease.



Read more: http://www.nationalpost.com/most-popular/story.html?id=2156348

that makes young people more susceptible? :shrug:

is important. Vitamin D modulates the immune system.

Vit D3, Zinc, Elderberry syrup, Oil of Oregano, Astralugus, the list goes on, so do not panic.

after our business partner's child was diagnosed. My husband and I have no insurance. While reading, I did see some cautionary notes on the usual immune system boosters and alternative treatments. Elderberry, considered very good for the lungs, was listed as one of the substances which could cause a response which was too strong, leading to the cytokine storm which has been mentioned here. Just thought I'd mention it. Also, although not on your list, Echinacea was another favorite for immune system support which is not advised in the presence of H1N1.

May have already had some variety of this flu. And so are less susceptible to get this particular strain of flu, what with the antigens floating around intheir blood stream. .

Then once in your body, this flu acts differently and then takes over. Regardless of age. But since fewer older people get it, then the statistical burden falls on those who can - the younger part of our populace.

There are other similar situations out there. For instance, in the big "e coli" scares that are affecting produce etc -that is a new variety of e coli that CANNOT even be washed off.

Why disease strains have become more virulent and less manageable is not something I have read any explanation for.

We've gotten better at managing most of them, but now and then something's going to slip through the cracks and we notice those specific diseases much more due to the news.

Of course there's bacterial diseases, which are different things and have been exacerbated by dangerously stupid things like putting antibiotics in cattle feed, but with things like the flu getting creamed by an especially severe strain, or new diseases emerging wholesale? Both are just going to happen now and then.

The 1919 Great Flu was one of the deadliest pandemics of which we know.

Of course, the virulence of the flu, or any other contagious disease, depends on the behavior of hosts -- how virulent their behavior allows it to become. For example, in the 1919 flu, it was the refusal of military authorities in 1917-18 to impose quarantine, and instead to ship troops to training camps and then to the WWI trenches, that allowed extremely-virulent strains of an already-deadly flu to spread through much of North America and Europe. So we will still have some effect on this flu; but it is already a very-dangerous strain.

So we get speculation here on anything and everything else. So far as I know, the other DU posters are not healthcare experts nor medical researchers. So, let's instead follow on the logic of the hypothesis that it's the immune system response. And note how that fits as well with the 1919 so-called "Spanish Flu."

speculative about the viral pneumonia that is burrowing within lungs. Dr Kumar is an expert in the field and is actully treating patients with severe H1N1.

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TYY :shrug:

...that the vaccine is the original cause of the Swine Flu. I'm pondering whether the vaccine is somehow exacerbating the death rate.

I also wonder if the vaccine 'mist' is making people (kids) contagious and subsequently evolving the pandemic, which in turn creates more demand for the vaccine. And around it goes...

TYY

In your experience, what month did the 'spreading and killing' begin? Also, in your experience, what month was the vaccine introduced?

TYY

Vaccine production began in May, human tests began in July, the FDA approved the vaccine on Sep. 15th, our Flumist H1N1 vaccinations arrived on October 9th and the injectable H1N1 vaccine arrived on October 13th. So far we have vaccinated over 1000 critical personnel without a single adverse effect.

The nano particles you mentioned are of great concern, and anyone seeking a vaccine should seriously consider the implications of injecting themselves with the volatility of these chemicals.

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"Now it has come out that the vaccines approved for use in Germany and other European countries contain nanoparticles in a form that reportedly attacks healthy cells and can be deadly."

The FDA did not approve the H1N1 vaccine that contained adjuvants. In addition how would any vaccine have had any effect on the death rates from April through early October?

...behind that assumption is based on the fact that H1N1 is a global pandemic. I would be surprised to find out that the pharmaceutical companies are differentiating their recipes based on continent, but you never know.

You are correct about the wording, but the article is written from a European perspective. However, "Germany and elsewhere" is somewhat vague.

I really have no idea what the truth is regarding Swine Flu and the ensuing pandemic. I'm just positing theories for consideration and discussion. I'm not a scientist. That's why I used the word "possible" in my original post. "One possible explanation..."

My understanding is that there are indeed vaccines approved with (at least some of) the added adjuvants. The question is whether or not they contain nanoparticles.

The vaccine was being administered in clinical trials during the summer months on a voluntary basis. The initial Swine Flu deaths were attributed to people with underlying health issues; lung/breathing issues such as asthma and obesity. Now that the vaccine is being actively distributed, they are no longer making that distinction.

TYY :shrug:

The article seems to say that the "nanoparticles" are supposed to act as an adjuvant. If you have a link on H1N1 vaccine with adjuvant in the US I'd love to see it. I haven't seen where one was approved but it's possible.

...about the wording regarding "Germany and other European countries." I said that "Germany and elsewhere" was vague:

"You are correct about the wording, but the article is written from a European perspective. However, "Germany and elsewhere" is somewhat vague."

I'll have to look around to see if I can find anything proving the adjuvants in the USA theory. I did find one quote from the New York Times article from my other post to be curious:

"Thinking the swine flu might pose the same problem, federal officials ordered $700 million worth of adjuvant from Novartis and Glaxo." http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/22/health/22vacc.html?pagewanted=2

TYY

I guess I'm not clear about what counts as an adjuvant, but the USA version of the Swine Flu vaccine definitely contains Thimerosal (dangerous neurotoxin), Formaldehyde (highly toxic, potentially lethal respiratory poison), and processed pigskin gel (ewwwww.) The only 'adjuvant' missing is Squalene...(or is it?) And, I have no way of telling about the nanoparticles. Yes? No? Who knows...?

"**UPDATE: The FDA has released package inserts for the four (4) approved H1N1 "swine flu" vaccines in the United States of America. You can read this list at H1N1 "Swine Flu" Vaccine Package Inserts (CSL, Novaris, Sanofi & MedImmune) or by going to the FDA official website and checking the approved product package inserts for CSL Limited, Novaris Vaccines and Diagnostics Ltd., Sanofi Pasteur Inc. & MedImmune, LLC. Upon quick glance, the vaccines appear to contain thimerosal (mercury), gelatin (processed pigskins) and formaldehyde. Also, don't forget that MedImmune's Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine Live, Intranasal will contain LIVE H1N1 "SWINE FLU" VIRUS.

Each 0.2 mL dose contains 106.5-7.5 FFU of the LIVE attenuated influenza virus reassortant of the pandemic (H1N1) 2009 virus: A/California/7/2009 (H1N1)v."

http://remixxworld.blogspot.com/2009/08/what-ingredients-are-in-h1n1-swine-flu.html
http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/ApprovedProducts/ucm181950.htm

TYY :shrug:

... "However, the current stock of U.S. swine flu vaccines does not contain adjuvants, according to Anne Schuchat, MD, in an informational video produced by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). Schuchat does acknowledge that there is an emergency provision to use them — should the pandemic accelerate." http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_13555627?source=most_emailed

We'll see where we are in a month...

TYY

What a load of crap.

The swine flu vaccine has only been available very recently (and even now only to a minority of people); so can hardly be blamed for all the deaths up to now.

It is not considered a reliable site on DU.

thanks
Turns out I did have it - the dr only said it was "the virus that is going around."
Never had such lung involvement like this before.
Finally done with it but it took antibiotics to get rid of the secondary infection.

:shrug:

still not wellunderstood. There are just pieces of a puzzle.

under the circumstances.

One day I read how serious the flu is, the next I hear it's no more serious than ordinary influenza. One day I hear it's killing more healthy people than those with pre-existing conditions, and the next I read the opposite. You know, stuff like that. :hi:

There is plenty of data about deaths in healthy 25-49 year olds. If you look at some common health problems in those age ranges you will notice hyperlipidemia and hypertension. Some of the experimental treatments for cytokine storm involve drugs used to treat those conditions. It is possible that the less healthy members of the at risk group are "premedicating" accidently and thus protecting themselves from the cytokine storm. Just a thought, maybe a bad one feel free to pick it apart.

David

:hi:

and my immune system killing me.

done world wide about Vitamin D and the immune system. Vitamin D modulates the immune response and it is implicated in lung health that is protecting lung from infections.

Below is stdy about how it actually protects lungs and below that is a discussion at Fluwiki with Dr Grattan Woodson FACP who has an active internal medicine and runs a clincial research center and has authored two books on pandemic influenza with a third published in August 2008


Below is one study regarding Vitamin D and lung infections. The study was published in the Journal of Immunology, November 2008.

snip

"The active form of vitamin D is known to affect the expression of more than 200 genes, so we were interested both in the possible lung-specific production of active vitamin D and in vitamin D-dependent production of proteins that fight infections."

snip

Vitamin D converted by the kidneys circulates in the bloodstream, but vitamin D converted by other organs appears to stay within those organs and protect them from infection," Hansdottir said. "We were able to see this happen in cells lining the trachea and main bronchi."

The team also found that when lung airway cells are infected by a virus, they express more of the enzyme that activates vitamin D. Hansdottir said the team is very interested in pursuing studies on the role of viral infections in vitamin D production and subsequent effects on lung infections.

"Vitamin D not only increases proteins involved in bacterial killing but also can dampen inflammation," Hansdottir said. "Controlling inflammation through vitamin D is good because too much inflammation can cause problems such as sepsis and seems to contribute to autoimmune disease."


http://www.news-medical.net/news/2008/11/05/42448.aspx



FluWiki Discussion:

Vitamin D Status and Susceptibility to Influenza and its Complications


http://www.newfluwiki2.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=3530