There's a huge difference between the quality of care from chiropractors vs. physical therapists

Several years ago, I was talked into seeing a chiropractor for headaches related to a neck issue. I sit at a computer for 10-12 hours a day, and it's messed up my posture so that I get pretty nasty headaches on a daily basis. The chiropractor did all sorts of tests, took x-rays, and proclaimed me to be seriously damaged. No worries, though, he assured me; a course of chiropractic would resolve all my issues.

I spent about 3 weeks with this guy, 4 times a week. He would perform his subluxation (2-3 minute operation) and send me on my way. I would feel better for a little while - sometimes up to an hour, but the headaches came back even worse after the short period of relief. During an appointment in my third week of treatment, he suggested daily or twice daily treatment 6 times a week for an entire year so that I could be "fully cured". At $40 a visit, this would have added up to about $24,000 for an entire year (he thought I was loaded because I owned a Porsche). He really tried to sell me on it - gave me the hard sell, you know the "you won't ever get relief if you don't do this, and it will continue to get worse until you're fully disabled, and you won't be able to live a full and happy life, blah, blah, blah".

At this point, he'd become like a drug dealer. He started me out with a free session where he did some deep muscle massage, some adjustments, and some work on my legs (I guess they were out of alignment or some shit). Then, he suckered me into trying 3 weeks with him (paid for up front, since I'd be getting a "discounted rate" of $40 per visit if I did). And like a crack dealer, he provided me with something that I needed to have again if I were to get any benefit, and I would require more and more of it to get the same fix.

I told him I would consider it and left the office. The final straw was when I went to my last treatment and he said that my problems were genetic and that my son (age 6) would need to see him regularly. He also noticed during this visit that I have pretty bad seasonal allergies, and claimed he could cure them forever with regular adjustments. At that point, I decided I'd had enough. At the end of the appointment, I politely told him that I wasn't going to continue with the chiropractic therapy at his office. I told him I couldn't afford it (made up a lie about losing my job), and that seemed to slow down the hard sell - if I couldn't afford to pay, there wasn't any reason for him to push me.

The icing on the cake came about 2 months later when I received a bill in the mail for almost $1,000 for "missed appointments" at this chiropractic clinic. Thinking it was a misunderstanding, I called to ask about it. The billing lady I talked to said that I had signed up a years worth of treatment, and that I'd been missing appointments (appointments I hadn't made for a yearly plan I hadn't signed up for). And she wouldn't back down. So I got an attorney involved and filed a complaint with the Attorney General's office. That finally got them off my back, but I'm still fighting the bad mark on my credit. Yep, after all that, they reported me as a deadbeat to the major credit bureaus. I've gotten it removed several times, but it mysteriously re-appears about once a year. I now have an attorney working on fixing it permanently, but who knows how it's effected my credit worthiness.

After leaving the chiropractor, I lived with the pain for several years where I didn't have any insurance. I took Advil when needed, and just sucked it up. 2 years ago, I got a job with an excellent insurance plan. Since it was a pre-existing condition, I had to wait 12 months to get any work done, and it took another 12 months to finally get approval for an MRI and physical therapy.

So last month I was finally able to get my MRI and start physical therapy. It's the best thing I've done for myself in a LONG time.

The difference between physical therapy and chiropractic care is enormous. At PT, I get tissue massage, ice massage, do a lot of stretching, and work my ass off doing the exercises they have for me. In addition, they tried both electrical stimulation and ultra-sound therapies to see if that helped. (It's funny, my PT told me that he thinks it's a bunch of quackery, but that it helps some people so they always try it first - especially to get the ones who are vulnerable to the placebo effect). The ultrasound actually seems to be working, even though I didn't think either would really do anything for me.

The physical therapy office has a huge list of exercises and stretches that I have to perform during the day, whether sitting at my desk or at home puttering around the house. There was also a thorough exam of my physical condition, mental state, daily activities, nutrition, and more. They setup a tailored plan for me to target the muscles (and mental problems) that are actually causing the problem. The plan has been tweaked twice since I started to make sure that I'm getting maximum effect.

After 4 weeks of physical therapy, the headaches are noticeable less painful and far less frequent. I haven't taken an Advil in at least a week and I feel better than I have in years. The best part? It's only going to cost me $300 (my deductible for PT care) for about 6 months of physical therapy, and they'll take the money in 6 monthly payments of $50 each.

The difference between the 2 types of care (if you can call chiropractic "care") is huge and quite startling. I understand that there may some good chiropractics out there, but there are many, many more who are just charlatans selling a commodity to a gullible public. And I went to what is considered a more "mainstream" chiropractic office - they don't do Reiki, herbal therapy, or any of the other alt-med treatments that are just garbage.

If I had it all to do over again, I'd have gone to a physical therapist and gotten this taken care of years ago. As they say, "Buyer beware." I'm now a lot more wary than I once was.

...pulling them out of whack. It's the muscles that need manipulation/strengthening, not the bones.


I've never been able to afford PT, but I have a massage therapist whose work is really as much PT as massage when I have specific issues.

Getting to the root of the problem, working with symptoms, both are good strategies.

How are your work ergonomics? How do you sit, how do you use your body otherwise, etc? What muscles are weak, what ones are tight/hypertonic or spasming?

Loosening tight muscles, exercising weak ones, both can help balance out things to help prevent issues. (that can be a combo of massage therapy and physical therapy). Getting bones back into alignment can help, but dealing with preventing them from getting out of whack is necessary also.

And I may end up with some free massage sessions (fingers crossed). With me, my problem was definitely the muscles, and it was a combination of my anxiety disorder and a horrible amount of time sitting at a computer in a fixed position. The massage is really good to loosen the muscles, but the PT goes further and has shown me how to both strengthen the muscles that are too weak, and stretch out to permanently loosen the muscles that are too tense.

My PT also gave me instructions to throw a heating pad over my neck and shoulders for 20 minutes at night before bed, and that relaxes my muscles a LOT. That's helped a lot just by itself, and may be something inexpensive you can try until you can afford PT.

it just felt like the joint, so I assumed it couldn't be muscle problems. I mentioned it to a massage therapist, and within 3 sessions she had it worked out to the point I've never felt it again.

But yeah, even by the time you get to a massage therapist, your problem is either that your muscles are clinched and won't release, or you've done an activity so much that one set of muscles has taken dominance over the balancing muscles - or often you have both problems.

I hope you feel better soon and glad you got the help you needed.

My PT even recommended several chiropractors that use more of the PT-style therapies and massage in conjunction with the subluxations (before he found out I had insurance).

Thanks for the kind words. :hi:

I was in a car accident. The Massage Therapist and Physical Therapist recommended by my doctor were both quacks. I went to a Chiropractor who proved to be a godsend.

You can't make generalizations like the OP.

why are you allowed to do so?

for just an aggravating kind-of pain between my shoulder blades (massage hadn't helped). Not only did the treatments work, I noticed one day while driving when I checked my blind spot, I didn't have to turn my entire torso. I'd had pain turning my head that I was barely aware of I'd had it so long, but after the chiro, I could swivel my head pain-free and freely.

Several years later I had back surgery to remove a tumor (benign) on my sciatic nerve. It was a piece of cake. Several months after that I began experiencing the same symptoms on the other side of my spine -- and the pain was even more excruciating and truly debilitating. I of course self diagnosed it as another tumor. My doctor, although I was convinced he was wrong, for some reason felt it wasn't the same thing and sent me to a physical therapist. Had I not trusted this doctor as much as I did, I would have blown it off. And when the PT showed me the exercises I'd be doing, they were laughable -- I thought no way would this work. But in about a week all pain was gone.

I'd think a more ethical chiropractor would have sent you elsewhere if he wasn't able to help you within a reasonable time. My dad was a doctor and in his day, chiropractors were almost akin to snake oil salesmen -- they weren't permitted to join the county medical society. Now, though, it's a legit area of treatment, if you find one who isn't so money hungry.

And, my brother told me he went to a chiropractor for some reason, and was surprised to learn his sinus problems cleared up.

So don't write off all chiropractic therapy because of your, admittedly horrible, experience. There are probably some conditions treated better with chiropractic, others better addressed by PT.

I'm so glad to hear you're FINALLY getting some relief! :hi:

I think there are quite a few things they might be very good at treating. In my case, I think a referral to a physical therapist would have been the most appropriate course of action for my chiropractor - but, that would have been less profitable. :(

There are, though, an unfortunately large number of chiros that are concerned more about their "factory line" chiro practice and don't have the patient's best interest at heart unless it helps their bottom line.

The relief I'm getting is, well, a HUGE relief. :) :hi:

I check in to my chiropractor and it works in a day. But it sounds like you have it worse than I do. I hinted to my doc that I needed a referral for pt or massage therapy but he told me to take an antiinflammatory. Boo.

I think that chiropractors are probably fine with the skeletal system and spine, but are maybe less successful with the tendons, ligaments and soft tissue problems. PT may be more appropriate for you - your family doctor may be able to get you a referral, depending on what your insurance situation is.

maximize profits by talking patients into more and more kids of "care."

http://strategicdc.com/practice-profitability-program.html
http://www.chirosuccess.com/articles/article-goldmine.html
http://onfirechiro.com/

If a chiropractor is using marketing tactics to make a lot of money, rather than focusing on patient care, then that's a chiropractor that shouldn't be practicing. A good practitioner does a great job with their patients, grows their business slowly, and relies on referrals from satisfied customers to build a successful practice that helps people.

Come in every week (or more often) for the rest of your life for your "adjustment". The money just keeps rolling in...for them.

If I had a car that needed an adjustment and had it worked on and then was told I would have to bring it back next week and the week after that and then every time I had the same problem I would question the quality of the work done and would probably look for a lawyer.

I had a friend who had a back problem and kept going back and back (funny that) to the chiropractor who kept giving him an adjustment. I was there when the ambulance took him to the hospital in agony. He had a ruptured disk, yet the chiropractor kept giving him an "adjustment" and collecting his money for doing that. Spinal surgery finally put him right.

Myself, I had a ruptured disk about 11 years ago. The infamous L5-S1. I had surgery performed by a neurosurgeon from Mayo and went home the next day with a bottle of Percocet, but I never had to take a single one. Since that time I've never had a major problem with my back at all. I did however learn the chiropractor lesson from my friend and I avoided that altogether.

They get you hooked on the product, and know they can rely on you for long term income with very little effort. In fact, you'll come to need their product so much that you'll throw your money at them to get it.

Chiropractic isn't just a huge waste of money for some people. It can also be deadly: http://whatstheharm.net/chiropractic.html

when his disk was ruptured, adjusted time and time again? I'd rather go to a witchdoctor.

Probably it was relief that the sessions were over.

I think it's worse than witchdoctors. At least with those, you know it's quackery - chiropracty has a gained an amount of legitimacy over the last few decades.

explained everything that was going on with my shoulder (torn cuff) and how and why she was manipulating my muscles.

He's a no nonsense guy who laid it all out for me - what he thought was wrong, what he was going to do, what he would do if that didn't work, the things I could try on my own at home, etc. And, he lets me take an active role in my treatment - since I have insurance, they'll cover as many sessions as he recommends, so I can go once, twice, or three times a week. Whatever I'm comfortable with.

I look forward to my PT sessions even though they're a lot of hard, sweaty (and sometimes painful) work.

At my last PT session, there was a woman on the table next to me with a torn rotator cuff who was doing some workouts with one of those stretchy bands, and it looked horribly difficult. I don't envy whatever you had to go through! :hi:

H.L. Mencken

This preposterous quackery flourishes lushIy in the back reaches of the Republic, and begins to conquer the less civilized folk of the big cities. As the old-time family doctor dies out in the country towns, with no competent successor willing to take over his dismal business, he is followed by some hearty blacksmith or ice-wagon driver, turned into a chiropractor in six months, often by correspondence. In Los Angeles the Damned, there are probably more chiropractors than actual physicians, and they are far more generally esteemed. Proceeding from the Ambassador Hotel to the heart of the town, along Wilshire boulevard, one passes scores of their gaudy signs; there are even chiropractic "hospitals." The Mormons who pour in from the prairies and deserts, most of them ailing, patronize these "hospitals" copiously, and give to the chiropractic pathology the same high respect that they accord to the theology of the town sorcerers. That pathology is grounded upon the doctrine that all human ills are caused by pressure of misplaced vertebrae upon the nerves which come out of the spinal cord -- in other words, that every disease is the result of a pinch. This, plainly enough, is buncombe. The chiropractic therapeutics rest upon the doctrine that the way to get rid of such pinches is to climb upon a table and submit to a heroic pummeling by a retired piano-mover. This, obviously, is buncombe doubly damned.

Both doctrines were launched upon the world by an old quack named Andrew T. Still, the father of osteopathy. For years the osteopaths merchanted them, and made money at the trade. But as they grew opulent they grew ambitious, i.e., they began to study anatomy and physiology. The result was a gradual abandonment of Papa Still's ideas. The high-toned osteopath of today is a sort of eclectic. He tries anything that promises to work, from tonsillectomy to the x-rays. With four years' training behind him, he probably knows more anatomy than the average graduate of the Johns Hopkins Medical School, or at all events, more osteology. Thus enlightened, he seldom has much to say about pinched nerves in the back. But as he abandoned the Still revelation it was seized by the chiropractors, led by another quack, one Palmer. This Palmer grabbed the pinched nerve nonsense and began teaching it to ambitious farm-hands and out-at-elbow Baptist preachers in a few easy lessons. Today the backwoods swarm with chiropractors, and in most States they have been able to exert enough pressure on the rural politicians to get themselves licensed. Any lout with strong hands and arms is perfectly equipped to become a chiropractor. No education beyond the elements is necessary. The takings are often high, and so the profession has attracted thousands of recruits -- retired baseball players, work-weary plumbers, truck-drivers, longshoremen, bogus dentists, dubious preachers, cashiered school superintendents. Now and then a quack of some other school -- say homeopathy -- plunges into it. Hundreds of promising students come from the intellectual ranks of hospital orderlies.

Such quackeries suck in the botched, and help them on to bliss eternal. When these botched fall into the hands of competent medical men they are very likely to be patched up and turned loose upon the world, to beget their kind. But massaged along the backbone to cure their lues , they quickly pass into the last stages, and so their pathogenic heritage perishes with them. What is too often forgotten is that nature obviously intends the botched to die, and that every interference with that benign process is full of dangers. That the labors of quacks tend to propagate epidemics and so menace the lives of all of us, as is alleged by their medical opponents -- this I doubt. The fact is that most infectious diseases of any seriousness throw out such alarming symptoms and so quickly that no sane chiropractor is likely to monkey with them. Seeing his patient breaking out in pustules, or choking, or falling into a stupor, he takes to the woods at once, and leaves the business to the nearest medical man. His trade is mainly with ambulant patients; they must come to his studio for treatment. Most of them have lingering diseases; they tour all the neighborhood doctors before they reach him. His treatment, being nonsensical, is in accord with the divine plan. It is seldom, perhaps, that he actually kills a patient, but at all events he keeps any a worthy soul from getting well.

The osteopaths, I fear, are finding this new competition serious and unpleasant. As I have said, it was their Hippocrates, the late Dr. Still, who invented all of the thrusts, lunges, yanks, hooks and bounces that the lowly chiropractors now employ with such vast effect, and for years the osteopaths had a monopoly of them. But when they began to grow scientific and ambitious their course of training was lengthened until it took in all sorts of tricks and dodges borrowed from the regular doctors, or resurrection men, including the plucking of tonsils, adenoids and appendices, the use of the stomach-pump, and even some of the legerdemain of psychiatry. They now harry their students furiously, and turn them out ready for anything from growing hair on a bald head to frying a patient with the x-rays. All this new striving, of course, quickly brought its inevitable penalties. The osteopathic graduate, having sweated so long, was no longer willing to take a case of delirium tremens for $2, and in consequence he lost patients. Worse, very few aspirants could make the long grade. The essence of osteopathy itself could be grasped by any lively farmhand or night watchman in a few weeks, but the borrowed magic baffled him. Confronted by the phenomenon of gastrulation, or by the curious behavior of heart muscle, or by any of the current theories of immunity, he commonly took refuge, like his brother of the orthodox faculty, in a gulp of laboratory alcohol, or fled the premises altogether. Thus he was lost to osteopathic science, and the chiropractors took him in; nay, they welcomed him. He was their meat. Borrowing that primitive part of osteopathy which was comprehensible to the meanest understanding, they threw the rest overboard, at the same time denouncing it as a sorcery invented by the Medical Trust. Thus they gathered in the garage mechanics, ash-men and decayed welterweights, and the land began to fill with their graduates. Now there is a chiropractor at every crossroads.

http://www.chirobase.org/12Hx/mencken.html

I know what yoga is and what it does, but is a yoga instructor going to have the skills to diagnose a problem and come up with a customized course of treatment?

If your problem comes from a misalignment, out of balance body, I'd bet dollars to donuts yoga is cheaper and better than quakeopractors. Goes very well with PT. Ask your PTs what he or she thinks of yoga.

A friend of mine had a similar experience, it made her headaches worse. and he tried to sell her homeopathic garbage.

Their only solution is drugs or surgery. And then there is the greed.

"According to the United States General Accounting Office and health insurance industry sources, between 3% and 10% of any state's Medicaid budget is lost due to fraud and abuse. The federal Office of the Inspector General's Medicaid Fraud Control Unit convicted 1,226 individuals in Fiscal Year 2006 and recovered more than $1.1 billion in court-ordered restitution, fines, civil settlements and penalties. Additionally, due to health insurance fraud, 3,425 practitioners were excluded from participation in the Medicare, Medicaid and other federal healthcare programs."

http://www.medbd.ca.gov/licensee/seven_sins-greed.html

Odin wrote that the chiro tried to sell his friend homeopathic medications. You're conflating that with doctors prescribing drugs or ordering surgery.

1. Homeopathy doesn't work, and has never been shown to work in a valid scientific study
2. Drugs prescribed by doctors go through a rigorous screening procedure to assure that they do what they're supposed to do

You're trying to make an analogy based on a false set of assumptions (ie, that both homeopathy and modern medicines have the same efficacy). This is a fallacy.

"between 3% and 10% of any state's Medicaid budget is lost due to fraud and abuse"
Did the article mention say between 3% and 10% of all doctors used fraudulent methods? It didn't - and that's because a tiny fraction of medical doctors are responsible for most of the fraud. Compare that to the % of chiros who are using unproven and outdated methods (unconscious fraud?), which is nearly 100%.

with sciatic nerve pain that took 2 years to resolve. i had a fall and bruised my back. took a while to get better, so i went to a chiro. after a couple months of treatment, i was left with a screaming sciatic nerve. i lost my health insurance shortly thereafter, and just had to let the nerve damage heal by itself.

i hate the f'ers.

I'm fortunate that I didn't end up with any injuries (other than to my wallet) from my chiro visit.

Did your nerve damage heal itself, or do you still experience problems with it?

They don't oversell, and they don't pretend that they can "cure" something based on who knows what, which is what the majority of chiros do, IMO and IME.

Instead, they provide methods that can be done at home after the PT treatment cycle is complete. At least 3/4's of what I do now, even only a month or so into treatment, is done at home. And it's hard work.

You won't get that from many chiropractors who are trained to keep the money machine rolling by bringing you in for adjustment after adjustment.

chiropractic would be illegal.

Which is a colossal waste of money when there are far better alternatives out there. Hell, I'd be willing to bet that a simple massage every week would provide more benefit than multiple chiropractic sessions. A massage and a heating pad once a day sounds like a less expensive (not to mention safer) alternative to chiropractic quackery.