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Physicists Tame Time Travel by Forbidding You to Kill Your Grandfather

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n2doc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-10 02:22 PM
Original message
Physicists Tame Time Travel by Forbidding You to Kill Your Grandfather
By Laura Sanders, Science News

Novelists and screenwriters know that time travel can be accomplished in all sorts of ways: a supercharged DeLorean, Hermione’s small watch and, most recently, a spacetime-bending hot tub have allowed fictional heroes to jump between past and future.

But physicists know that time travel is more than just a compelling plot device — it’s a serious prediction of Einstein’s general relativity equations. In a new study posted online July 15, researchers led by Seth Lloyd at MIT analyze how some of the quirks and peculiarities of real-life time travel might play out. This particular kind of time travel evades some of its most paradoxical predictions, Lloyd says.

Any theory of time travel has to confront the devastating “grandfather paradox,” in which a traveler jumps back in time and kills his grandfather, which prevents his own existence, which then prevents the murder in the first place, and so on.

One model, put forth in the early 1990s by Oxford physicist David Deutsch, can allow inconsistencies between the past a traveler remembers and the past he experiences. So a person could remember killing his grandfather without ever having done it. “It has some weird features that don’t square with what we thought time travel might work out as,” Lloyd says.



Read More http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2010/07/time-travel/
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-10 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
1. But I'm my own Grandpa.
It's all very confusing, you know. :rofl:
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rfranklin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-10 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Eeeew! You had sex with your grandma?
That's perverted!
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-10 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. I told you it was confusing. But, here's a video that will explain
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NoNothing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-10 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Oh! A lesson on not changing history
From Mr. I'm-my-own-grandpa! Screw history!
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-10 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Goodness. You might want to watch this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7x1ETPkZsk

Maybe, then, you'll understand the joke. Or, maybe not...who knows?
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NoNothing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-10 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. I'm sorry, I guess I went a little crazy there.
Oh, yes, madness runs in our family. Some people even called ME mad! And why? Because I dared to dream of creating a race of atomic monsters... atomic supermen with octagonal bodies that suck blood...
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-10 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. Didn't Bill Wyman, from the Rolling Stones actually have a situation like this?
Wyman's son married his step-mother's mother.

oh..here are some details..
http://www.amusingfacts.com/facts/Detail/bill-wyman-marriage.html
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-10 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. I don't remember that one.
I'm My Own Grandpa is an old song. Everyone's done it, pretty much.
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dtexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-10 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. Given the discussion, literally -- screw history.
It's enough to make one closed timelike loopy.
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TheMadMonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-10 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #1
18. Try Heinlien's story (think it was him) about the "Unwed Mother"...
...for a time travel paradox that would turn a klein bottle inside out.
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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-10 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
2. "So a person could remember killing his grandfather without ever having done it"
Maybe this is happening now.

Maybe eye witness accounts and confessions are wrong even though they're right.

Maybe until there's actual evidence of time travel it should remain in the science fiction category.
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dtexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-10 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #2
16. Maybe? I'm sure that there are many who remember such things without having done them.
Now, take my friend Napoleon Bonaparte for example .......
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-10 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
4. "To Say Nothing of the Dog" by Connie Willis

What a stitch! Willis' delectable romp through time from 2057 back to Victorian England, with a few side excursions into World War II and medieval Britain, will have readers happily glued to the pages. Rich dowager Lady Schrapnell has invaded Oxford University's time travel research project in 2057, promising to endow it if they help her rebuild Coventry Cathedral, destroyed by a Nazi air raid in 1940. In effect, she dragoons almost everyone in the program to make trips back in time to locate items--in particular, the bishop's bird stump, an especially ghastly example of Victorian decorative excess. Time traveler Ned Henry is suffering from advanced time lag and has been sent, he thinks, for rest and relaxation to 1888, where he connects with fellow time traveler Verity Kindle and discovers that he is actually there to correct an incongruity created when Verity inadvertently brought something forward from the past. Take an excursion through time, add chaos theory, romance, plenty of humor, a dollop of mystery, and a spoof of the Victorian novel, and you end up with what seems like a comedy of errors but is actually a grand scheme "involving the entire course of history and all of time and space that, for some unfathomable reason, chose to work out its designs with cats and croquet mallets and penwipers, to say nothing of the dog. And a hideous piece of Victorian artwork."
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sailor65 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-10 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Your post made it sound so interesting,
I just ordered it for my Kindle.
Thanks!
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-10 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Enjoy. Let me know what you think of it.
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-10 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
8. It wouldn't be murder anyway
You wouldn't exist after having done it, so they could not try you for murder
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dtexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-10 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
12. Well thank goodness! I had been worrying about that.
It's one of those areas where "there ought to be a law" really holds.

;-)
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TlalocW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-10 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
17. MIT time travel researcher Seth Lloyd? Any relationship to...
CHRISTOPEHR LLOYD? Dun dun dunnnnnn!

TlalocW
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gtar100 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-10 03:30 AM
Response to Original message
19. But that's assuming time is linear and there is but one possible timeline.
But if time travels in any direction with any number of simultaneous possibilities, then one could travel through time and be there (then) and interact with events that will spin however they do. But it wouldn't change the fact that one came from a particular timeline that ended up producing who they are. Therefore, one could destroy the possibility of their own future within a particular timeline but not necessarily all and specifically not the one from whence they came.

But this is hardly the problem we face. Our problem is this terrible black hole full of negativity and hatred that is pulling on everyone in this world like gravity. If there ever was a timeline worth jumping out of, this one would be it. Just so long as we're not jumping "out of the frying pan and into the fire".
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deutsey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-10 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. "Our problem is this terrible black hole full of negativity and hatred"
:thumbsup:

I've been saying for a while that I feel as if I were sucked into a bizarre alternate universe back in December 2000 and have been looking for a way back home ever since.
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-10 09:07 AM
Response to Original message
21. I'm sure the GOP will filibuster any such regulations.
This is just going to wind up costing us grandfather-killing jobs.
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