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Does entropy increase with time or does it make time?

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Swede Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-10 09:42 PM
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Does entropy increase with time or does it make time?
One of the big debates going on in physics is whether the Second Law of Thermodynamics works the other way around. In other words, is the flow time determined by the increase in entropy in the universe? Sean Carroll has written a very interesting book on this very subject.

Stephen Hawking famously related "psychological time," the way we remember things, to "entropic time." In other words, were the flow of entropy to reverse itself then literally (as far as our brains are concerned) time would be flowing in the opposite direction.

http://io9.com/5667872/does-entropy-increase-with-time-or-does-it-make-time
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-10 09:55 PM
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1. Time is but a segment of Evolution which is constantly ongoing...ever changing, ever moving forward
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy

look to the big picture

nx question
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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-10 10:08 PM
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2. I make time for my kids, and my kids are the embodiment of chaos, so...
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pscot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-10 10:23 PM
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3. It wouldn't make any difference if time reversed
It would look the same, coming or going. Borges seems to argue that time is a function of individual existence, and each individual exists only in the present:
The phrase “negation of time” is ambiguous. It can mean the eternity of Plato or Boethius and also the dilemmas of Sextus Empiricus. The latter (Adversus mathematicos XI, 197) denies the past, which already was, and the future, which is not yet, and argues that the present is either divisible or indivisible. It is not indivisible, for in that case it would have no beginning to connect it to the past nor end to connect it to the future, nor even a middle, because whatever has no beginning or end has no middle. Neither is it divisible, for in that case it would consist of a part that was and another that is not. Ergo, the present does not exist, and since the past and the future do not exist either, time does not exist. < . . . > Via the dialectic of Berkeley and Hume, I have arrived at Schopenhauer’s dictum:

The form of the appearance of the will is only the present, not the past or the future; the latter do not exist except in the concept and by the linking of the consciousness, so far as it follows the principle of reason. No man has ever lived in the past, and none will live in the future; the present alone is the form of all life, and is a possession that no misfortune can take away. . . . We might compare time to an infinitely revolving circle: the half that is always sinking would be the past, that which is always rising would be the future; but the indivisible point at the top which the tangent touches, would be the present. Motionless like the tangent, that extensionless present marks the point of contact of the object, whose form is time, with the subject, which has no form because it does not belong to the knowable but is the precondition of all knowledge. (Die Welt als Wille und Vorstellung I, 54)

A fifth-century Buddhist treatise, the Visuddhimagga, or The Path to Purity, illustrates the same doctrine with the same figure: “Strictly speaking, the life of a being lasts as long as an idea. Just as a rolling carriage wheel touches earth at only one point, so life lasts as long as a single idea” (Radhakrishnan, Indian Philosophy I, 373). Other Buddhist texts say that the world is annihilated and resurges six billion five hundred million times a day and that every man is an illusion, vertiginously wrought by a series of solitary and momentary men. “The man of a past moment,” The Path to Purity advises us, “has lived, but he does not live nor will he live; the man of a future moment will live, but he has not lived nor does he now live; the man of the present moment lives, but he has not lived nor will he live” (I, 407), a dictum we may compare with Plutarch’s “Yesterday’s man died in the man of today, today’s man dies in the man of tomorrow” (De E apud Delphos, 18).


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TheMadMonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 01:05 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. False assumptions. False logic. The same false logic which gives rise...
to Zeno's Paradox.

Time is what keeps everything from happening at once.

The way I think of it, time is not the 4th dimension, but the 0th dimension. A "perpetual" origin to anchor the three physical dimensions. It has no "direction" in the sense we assign direction to the physical dimensions.

Instantaneous snapshots of events in three dimensions make sense from any vantage point. Include time and that "hyper-instantaneous snapshot" ONLY makes sense from the vantage point of the observer. Time is what gives the observer unique identity.
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pscot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Time is what gives the observer unique identity.
I don't think Borges would disagree with that. , though he would almost certainly point out that the converse is also true.
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