The Cost of SETI (Warning: Big-ass graphic)

No one can accuse Phil Plait, of Bad Astronomy fame, of being a shrinking violet; he speaks his mind, and he's not afraid to kick ass and take names when needed. He's still furious over the shutdown of the Allen Telescope Array by the beancounters. His latest post: The Cost of SETI contains some valuable information, including this graphic on the cost of SETI vs the other things we spend money on, like Tomahawk cruise missiles, predator drones, Trident SLBM's, etc. Each little symbol represents the cost of one Allen Array radio telescope dish:



Phil's post links to some of his previous posts on like Neil Tyson on exploring space.

That post contains quotes from Dr. Tyson and some of the incredibly ignorant comments posted on the Parade website following Tyson's article. Phil then replies:





Phil's right, we need to at least try to educate our fellow citizens on the value of space exploration and SETI, starting with some of our fellow DU'ers. Sorry about that last comment; but, it's true.

Stuff that would help us learn about our universe. Heck, the NASA budget keeps getting cut every year, while defense spending is up.
What this country should do, is spend about a quarter of what it currently spends on its military, and bring back ALL the other spending levels to where they SHOULD be. We could be going to Mars in a few years, cure cancer, feed the world, and every citizen would have healthcare.

As soon as its a secret program to collect intelligence on extra-terrestrials, nobody will mess with it, promise. :)

What a horribly disproportionate amount of money is being spent on optional warfare -- thanks for the illustration...

k&r

Followed some links from the article & ended up at a Carl Sagan video advocating SETI. Excellent.

I have been running Seti@home on my PC since 1999. Now mind you not the same PC of course. In the vast universe there has to be others we can't be alone. We may hear from some other civilization or not but we have to at least try.

And the Pentagon budget is 100% reality?

I'm perfectly willing to have money spent on SETI. I already donate 4 of my computer's time for the SETI@HOME project.

This is exploration, as much as the early seafarers in the 15th century. We may not find life, but at least we're looking.

And it's probably the cheapest exploration attempt mankind has ever made,

So it's not part of the Federal or any other Public budget.
It's entirely privately funded.

anything... until there is. Try again.

IF they are NOT friendly and see us as vermin, or lunch or just inconvenient occupiers of a planet they want(Earth) don't you think it wise to watch for them IF there are any other races out there.

Humans are so damned smug. Yes the odds are against us finding close by neighbors. Then again if they come from very far away. It is likely they would have tech as much beyond ours as we have compared to neolithic age humans.

and prove that SETI qualifies.

Its methods might not be ideal, but it's definitely not woo.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=247x31886

They give some very good arguments for why it isn't "woo" or pseudoscience. I highly recommend reading it :)

He's still making the same argument ;)

...versus what they ACTUALLY are, and what we get out of it. Utterly shameful that science isn't better funded than the pittance it gets now.

A lot of the funds for that non-existent bridge went into dear Sarah's campaign! As well as Don Young, and it hurts my hands to type his name; what a prick.

I worked for NASA during the original moon-landing series, was on a friend's catamaran 1/2 mile from the VAB when the first nighttime moon shot launched. Dad was at Cape Canaveral and KSC till he died in the 80's and my brother and I had the privilege of meeting the "original 7". John Glenn was a jerk. Aldrin rocked.

SETI, along with many other space-oriented programs have provided this world with so much. Unfortunately, the astronauts have to come home to an organization that is underfunded, poorly run, and dismissed by way too many repukes. (Jeez, sounds like the Army/Navy/Air Force/Marines/Coast Guard......)

Yeah, I was there - literally in the viewing area with my very young daughter - when Challenger launched. Can you imagine riding into outer space in a truck built by the lowest bidder?

Your point is excellently made and the graphics are awesome. You are hugged and hugely K&R'd from this SF/Fantasy/Real Life NASA fan. :hug:

Proved the feasibility and ultimately the success of massively parallel distributed computing in many fields of science and how interested people are in contributing to scientific efforts.

that had to be kept at a certain temperature, way too cold for this Florida native! I used an MTST in high school. Without the space program and EVERY piece connected to it, including SETI, we wouldn't be doing this back-and-forth on a home computer almost affordable to anyone.

We also wouldn't have Tang, but that's a whole 'nother issue (I still hate the stuff).

Dad's job brought him here to Alaska in 1967, part of the BMEWS/DEW network that was in place. He was re-transferred (is that a word?) to Florida in 1972. I was lucky enough to see some major, awesome space program work both before and after we left that area. His clearance was high enough that we got in to the original "opening day" ceremonies at KSC. I think it was 1965.

He started out in a blockhouse at Cape Canaveral in about 1955. He was late picking me and my brother up from school one day because there was a huge alligator in the concrete "runway" they used when a shot was scheduled. Florida Fish & Game had to come "lasoo" the varmint before anyone could leave.

It's NEVER been blast-off. It's liftoff. (Not aimed at you, Elbo, just some folks young enough to have missed the real stuff and depend on newspapers or TV.....)

Oh. An IBM MTST was a very early precursor for home comps. It stands for Multiple-Tape Selectric Typewriter, and only honor students were allowed to train in the classes. Everything was stored on tape. Dumb for the school district, but I luckily qualified and went. Not to mention how many of my fellow dissidents I snuck in and gave access to...............:blush:

Of course, being a hippie, "Steal This Book" by Abbie Hoffman? I did. Just spoke with the spouse who informed me that at least 50 other folks read the copy once I was done with it and gave it to him. (Married well over 40 years..........:wtf::rofl:

Your point is well-noted and being saved by this aged grandmom of two!

Right back atcha on the hug! :hug:

I don't lie to anyone, and that was a mystical and very magic time of my (at the time) young life.

Lies are the basics for tyrants. So, I don't lie. Besides that? Ivory soap tastes like shit if you said one of my mom's "bad words". Damn and shit were lowwwww on her list. The first "bad word" started with N. South Florida, 1959? Ivorly soap. I'll never forget that taste - and I only got it once from a neighbor kid who was, and still is, an Orthodox Jew.

I don't engineer my replies to anything but the OP, and I don't lie. You can DU mail me or email - NoD's been out there since 1994 at the same email and landline phone number.

BTW: :grouphug: ...................gotcha!!

"Knowledge always benefits us. Always."

Love Phil Plait.

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Knowledge is the most essential basis for a democracy. Without it, we are to stupid to question, challenge, and ASK our "leaders" :wtf:.

Strong post. Make it an OP and I will K&R it at first opportunity.

:hug:

edited to add: this is why repukes are so dedicated to destroying public education, even as bad as it is today.

I was reacting to the quote about knowledge, from the OP. But it reminded me of the notion that ignorance is bliss. If that were true, I think there'd be a lot more blissful Republicans!

I've got a Zazzle shop -- I should probably make a t-shirt!

:patriot:

P.S. I posted an OP here.


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It's kinda funny how few REAL "americans" are out there?? Ya know, the kind that believe in our written, signed and witnessed Constitution?

Just saw a replay (4-hour time difference) of Mr. President and Seth at the WHDC. We were both laughing so hard the cats got dumped on the floor (from our laps).

And yes, I still apologize to everyone from out of state for exporting Sarah. She is worse than toxic.

:hug:

I watched that video of the President's presentation, and realized how much of a genuine sense of humor he has. I also remember thinking how the tension looked reeeeally thick at Trump's table. :scared:

Of everything we could spend money on in space, it's the one least likely to give any kind of return.

However, we had a great program going with the Allen Telescope Array. It was doing regular radio astronomy, but the signal was split off so SETI could also do its processing of wherever the array happened to be pointed.

SETI did a lot of good for distributed computing.

said that when we do have contact with beings capable of extraterrestrial travel the odds are they won't be coming here for friendly reasons. I for one would like to have some kind of heads up when they come if I'm around. Hopefully human technology will be able to detect them. Hopefully they will be Vulcan's! :smoke:

Carl Sagan was good, but a TV personality before the science/technology got really kick-started in the early 1990's.

it would certainly open some eyes to that large loss of revenue ...literally!! 544.3 Billion!
DOD budget only thing bigger on there

That is funny as fuck!

put to many other uses. Searching for other intelligent life is just part of the mission.

*Any* real knowledge gained about our universe is knowledge we didn't have before.

but we don't need SETI either-- just DISCLOSURE of what is already known by the govt

:kick:

Some big ass Hollywood type could fund the program for 10 years and negotiate some kind of movie deal rights for any positive. 'Contact' was great but that was supposition.

Or Trump; Imagine if he would fund this. He could then sell his hair secrets to the aliens and make another gazillion dollars.

Still Searching: SETI Pioneer Jill Tarter Talks Shutdown, Aliens. Here are some quotes I consider the most important part of the interview:




That last paragraph deserves rereading. This is the same thing Carl Sagan was saying 30 years ago, only the prospects for our making it out of our "technological adolescence" may be considerably darker now.