is there a difference between shoyu sauce & soy sauce?

I just bought this fun used cookbook & a couple of the recipes call for shoyu sauce. I assumed it was soy sauce since the dishes it was used in do normally call for soy sauce. I googled, but didn't find anything that explained if there was a difference or if it's the term that was used when the cookbook came out (1960)

Anyone know?

envelopes at cheap Chinese takeout joints or it can be naturally brewed and as delicate as a fine wine. Soy sauce is a generic.

Shoyu refers to the variety made of fermented wheat and soy with sea salt made in the traditional Japanese manner. There are a few makers in the US now, mostly for the health food trade.

It's really a matter of taste. Some people like the higher salt and thinner Chinese varieties, and some like the lower salt and thicker Japanese varieties. There is also a "double black" Chinese variety that is essential in a few highly seasoned recipes. Generally, if a recipe calls for light soy, you're best off using a Japanese variety like Kikkoman, which is actually quite nice.

Mainly, "soy sauce" is chinese, and "shoyu" is japanese (and wheat based) and slightly sweeter.

Even within these distinctions, there are many subvariations.

There's even Indonesian Kecap Asin and Kecap Masin.

I find shoyu a bit stronger, earthier, but it depends whether you need light and friendly soy sauce, or something a bit more heavy duty.

I use both, the shoyu for the heavier stuff. I frankly don't use much of either at the moment, having gotten into experimenting with fish sauce, but I just consider the shoyu the more heavily fermented, heavier-duty sauce.

They're close enough except for exacting recipes, so if you had one but not the other you could still make it work. They're not really the same, but for casual cooking you could probably interchange and just watch your levels.

since her father (whose recipes she's using) visited Japan at the turn of the century. So, she's using the Japanese version.

OT, but I was doing a Chinese recipe that called for brown soy sauce. I ran all over town looking for it. Of course I was going into Chinese markets, & very few spoke English. I finally ended up at one market & was looking around & around. A young woman who spoke perfect English asked if she could help. I told her I was looking for brown soy sauce. She'd never heard of it & asked why. I showed her the recipe. She looks at it & shouts "That's a Chinese recipe. This is a KOREAN MARKET". I absolutely slunk out of there. Fuck, how was I to know?

I think that means "not black soy sauce," because all soy, shoyu and tamari, is brown.

The Koreans and the Chinese HATE each other, by the way. That's why she flipped out, the biased cow.

(happens a lot).

All I can remember is that I was making Kung Pao chicken. I think it was from Cook's Illustrated but am not even 100 percent sure of that. Anyhoo, it called for a some fairly common ingredient, but was just a bit different than what I nornally used.

And the Asian markets I went to did not say "Korean", "Thai", "Vietnamese", etc.

That was sort of like looking for haggis ingredients in an Italian grocery, plus the Koreans are a very proud people who cling to their culture in a very exclusive fashion since they've been invaded by so many others. It helps to be able to recognize the variations in character writing, avoids a whole lot of confusion.

One of my fun memories of Boston was convincing a Chinese grocer who spoke no English to take a check when "no checks" was the only English sign in the store. I don't know how I did it, but I managed to, and he's probably laughed about my performance for years.

I use half a dozen different soy sauces, but I have a WAY favorite fish sauce: three crab brand. I suspect this is bottled under different names-- I've tried other sauces that I swear are identical.



I keep two bottles: one in the refrigerator, to preserve the delicate, just opened flavor, and one in the cabinet, which becomes more and more pungent as it ages after opening.

My favorite sauce for dipping beef (and damned near anything else):

6-8 Thai chilis, minced
1/4 cup distilled white vinegar
2 Tbps or so fish sauce (nuoc mam)

Combine and rest at room temp for 30 minutes before serving.

I just can't get it up here. Mine's a bit more massed-produced.

Nevertheless, I've become a convert to unagi.

but if the label on the fish sauce contains either of the names "Phu Quoc" or "Phan Thiet," you can't go wrong. Really great stuff.

...and it really is worth the effort. It's very good.

We have a Japanese grocery in town that sells vacuum packed unagi. Short pass through the microwave, then sliced and slapped onto vinegared rice-- yum! This is best dipped into a ponzu-shoyu mix, IMO.

Shoyu is made from wheat, water, salt, and soybeans; tamari is made only from soybeans, which is why it's often recommended for people who might be allergic to wheat and the like.

Originally, tamari was made from the liquid left over after soybeans were pressed for miso, but now it's manufactured on its own, with certain bacilli added to jump-start the fermentation.

Regular shoyu is mostly used in the fast cooking, like stir-frying, or just for seasoning cooked noodles or vegetables.

Tamari is what you use in longr-cooking stuff - stews and the like.

They're both good in marinades, but there's always the incredibly high sodium factor to take into consideration.

There are a lot of really crummy soy sauces out there, so the thing to do is to watch for the oldest brands, if you have an Asian friend who might help you out.

Oh, wait. You've got Old Yeller.

He always insists on Pearl River brand.

Here's something you might find interesting:

There are two kinds of soy sauce - light and dark.

Light is thinner and saltier. It's used in dipping sauces and when you need a lighter touch in cooked dish, so that the color of the ingredients isn't affected.

Dark soy is less salty, and is used almost exclusively in cooking. It's got molasses in it, although you won't find it listed in the ingredients, if you're watching your sugar intake. It really gives a great color to the dish.

This is probably more than you wanted to know, but soy sauce is a world sort of like wine. Or olive oil. No two brands are the same.

I use Silver Swan dark soy, and currently like Kwong Hung Seng Sauce thin soy. I use ABC brand kecap manis. A variety of japanese soys and shoyus, (San-j wheat tamari and Oswawa Nama Shoyu currently in the cabinet), and I like a ponzu-shoyu mix, too. That one lives in the refrigerator.

I'm really surprised it's not more popular here in the States, but it also has a lot of MSG in it - at least the ones we've tried - and it really wreaks havoc on my head.

But, it's just a wonderful splash on salads or steamed vegetables, or tossed in noodles.

Like I said, it's a whole big "soy sauce" world out there.