Flour questions from a non-baker

I love cooking, but baking just never caught on with me, so I'm relatively ignorant about some basic baking issues.

I recently got inspired to make my own pizza dough. The first attempt was rather good, and convinced me to do it again with some minor modifications to see if I can make a really really good crust.

So, after proofing the yeast, I started adding the flour (all-purpose), but ran out before the dough was sufficiently un-sticky. I consulted my pantry to see what the most promising alternative would be to fill the flour quota.

I had:

self-rising flour
cake flour (?)
rice flour
corn meal
masa (not sure if that's just corn meal)

So, I opted for the self-rising flour, figuring it would be such a small ratio (I thought it would only be about 1/2 cup -- I had already used 3 cups of the all-purpose flour). Turns out it needed a little over a cup, so about 25% of the final amount.

Did I make a mistake? (it's still resting/rising/or whatever it does) I know the self-rising has baking soda or baking powder and maybe other things, but will this interfer with the yeast action?

Any predictions on what the outcome will be? Maybe like deep-dish dough?

Which of the above options would have yielded the best results?

to help (is housewolf in the house?) you can check out this link. This is my favorite substitions, what-the-hell-is-it site.

http://www.gourmetsleuth.com/equivalents_substitutions.asp

I typed in flour & came up with this:

http://www.gourmetsleuth.com/equivalents_substitutions.asp?action=search

Looks like maybe cake flour would have been a better choice...

and doesn't build the gluten strings like a bread flour would but for pizza it probably would have worked fine

how did it turn out?

It's in the fridge -- I hope that's ok? It sat out for a couple hours, rising, but I'm not ready to cook it yet -- is it better to put in fridge after first proofing, or after it's cut into half and balled up again?

This is all so new to me...

you'll get a ton of info and if you do the same search with Husb2Sparkly and throw in "pizza" he'll cover the rest

I've got a goldmine now that will keep me reading for hours and hours :)

AKA pastry wheat, and is far lower in gluten than the all purpose flour made from winter or red wheat. Cake flour is used precisely because it's low in gluten so that overbeating won't result in a coarse crumb and overly chewy texture in the cake like using all purpose flour would.

I make naan, which is similar to pizza dough, and the recipe I use calls for baking powder and yeast. The naan has no heavy toppings so it's free to puff up and it does, in big splotchy bubbles, but it's still essentially a flatbread. The weight and wetness of pizza toppings might kick back most of the puffiness from the relatively small amount of self-rising flour.

I might just make a little test pizza tonight... have to go procure some fresh basil first....

because the little bit of baking powder would have assisted the yeast in raising the crust. Cake flour would have been OK, too, although it's lower in gluten and would have contributed little beyond filler to sop up the extra moisture. Rice flour is zero gluten and would have made the dough too heavy. Corn meal is great for pizza, but on the pan or stone. It keeps the dough from sticking and gives it a great flavor. Masa harina is finely ground corn flour, doesn't have the grit and texture of cornmeal and is unsuitable as an unsticker, but it would have added some extra flavor to the dough while making it a little heavier (again).

Yeast breads including pizza dough require high gluten flours to create the air pockets that trap the CO2 given off by the yeast during rising. If you run short of bread (all purpose) flour, then the self rising is your best bet.

It's still in the fridge. I am running to the store right now for some fresh basil (I'm going to have to start growing it, this is ridiculous -- this is now the ingredient I find myself having to run to the store for most often. But I do need flour, too...)

I might let it go overnight, or at least half of it, to test how it compares with a shorter ferment time (is that the word I want? proof seems to just be the part where you make sure the yeast is still alive).

Now, on to the matter of the pizza stone. I don't have one yet, but am convinced I need one and will be getting one soon.

But, in the meantime, what's the best improvisation? The first time out, I just piled the toppings on the dough and put it into the maxed-out 500 deg oven. By the time the cheese etc was done, the dough was still somewhat doughy (edible but not enjoyable).

The second time, I put the dough in first for 10 mins and then topped it and put it back -- this worked pretty well, but then I wondered whether I should have put the sauce on at that time, instead of after it had cooked.

So, question: pre-cooking pizza dough, with or without sauce?

turn it over and put the toppings on the "raw" side and finish cooking and that worked well

not sure in an over esp since I DO have a pizza stone so my oven is slightly different

but I bet if you just brushed on a very light coat of sauce it would cook into the dough, then add more when you add toppings

especially since I was going to try making smaller pies and my stove top grill thing would be just the right size.

I saw a recipe for deep dish that uses a cast iron pan, I might have to try that one too soon

This is getting serious. I just got back from Costco, and got the huge bucket of fresh basil, a 3-ton bag of AP flour (I learned my lesson today), a double-pack of fresh mozzarella, some EVOO and I'M IN SERIOUS PIZZA MODE now! :)

keep what you need in the cupboard. you do want it to come to room temp before you use it in case you forgot to "defrost" it LOL

25 pounds (ok, it wasn't really 3-tons) is way too much for my freezer, so I think I'll go on a bread-making spree and learn as much as I can as quickly as I can; also, what kind of fool (ME) starts BAKING just as summer is hitting??

Other than maintaining freshness, freezing decreases the chance of grain bugs setting up a commune in that bag. Sticking a couple of bay leaves in the bag helps in that department too but you must remember that they're there before you use the flour in a recipe, LOL. Storing the flour in sealed plastic containers in a cool place helps too.

I love bay leaves, so I have plenty on hand.

I'll probably divide the bag up into the large ziplock bags and try to find the coolest place in the house to store it -- although, in the summer, there is no cool place in the house.

I'll have to figure out how to use it up quickly.

OK, that was GOOD! Not the best, not what I'm seeking, but a damned fine step along the way.

The dough wasn't quite right -- I couldn't stretch it very well, it kept tearing (too much kneading or too little, or too much flour?) so I just put it on the cornmeal lined pan and pressed it into a rectangle about 10"x5", slathered on a layer of sauce (crushed tomatoes, a spoonful of tomato paste, crushed garlic, S&P and lots of EVOO) and baked for 10 mins at 550 (I didn't know my oven went that high!). Then, added some more sauce and a layer of fresh whole basil leaves, lots of fresh mozzarella and back into the oven for about 15 mins.

The dough was too thick for my taste, but an otherwise respectable pizza.

The dough was made with AP flour (plus 25% self-rising flour), some honey, some white wine, water, salt and yeast.

I wonder if I had rolled it out thin if it would have worked better --- I still have half the dough left to try this tomorrow.

I second Tab's recommendation for King Arthur all-purpose flour. It's the best. Trader Joe's carries it in Northern Cal.

If you had trouble stretching the dough, it may be a little too stiff for the gluten to develop properly. Work in a little less flour next time. The dough needs to be slack -- stop adding flour as soon as it can be formed into a ball.

but I am in a long-term quest for great homemade pizza.

One thing I do know is to not use generic all-purpose flour. You want a high-gluten flour (14% protein or so).

You can order small quantities from places like King Arthur Flour (http://www.kingarthurflour.com) or larger batches from just about any pizza supply distributor.

A 3 lb bag from King Arthur is just a couple of bucks, plus shipping. $10 should hold you for a couple of months, depending on how much you make.

- Tab

I just bought a 3-ton bag of AP flour from Costco today! OMG, that's more than I've ever used in my whole LIFE, and now I can't even use it for pizza?

Perhaps it's time to start baking bread....

They also had a big bag of "bread flour" at Costco, and I deliberated between that and AP -- now I guess I should have gotten the bread flour?

The AP 3-ton bag was only 4.49, so if I have to go back and get the bread flour, it won't be much of a loss. But if I have bread flour, what would I use the AP flour for (speaking as a confirmed non-baker)?

dumplings, muffins, cookies, pancakes, waffles, roux based sauces, home made pasta, or anything your heart desires. You can also use it for breads and pizza dough, but the results won't be as good as with a high gluten flour like King Arthur unbleached bread flour, my favorite. All purpose means just that, use it for anything and everything. Just be aware that cakes and quick breads should be undermixed rather than overmixed so you don't develop the gluten and coarsen the crumb.

It took my living out here 10 years for a health food store to discover King Arthur flour, so for that period I used generic unbleached bread flour I bought in bulk at the food co op for my breads. It worked. It just wasn't King Arthur.