Crate re-training advice needed please!

I haven't introduced our little Bella to the group yet but I need advice and can't find it on the web. I have found tons of information about how to crate train, crate re-train but no one talks about what you're supposed to do with the dog in the meantime while you get them re-acclimated to the crate.

Here's the deal, new puppy is a 6 month old rescue from Puerto Rico. She was born wild and has never really lived in a house - went from "wild" to "shelters". She's a real doll and smart as hell (maybe a little too smart :( ). So we brought her home just about a week ago, go through all the crate training stuff (making her comfortable, feel positive, a happy place, ignore her whines (very, very brief) when it's time for bed) and for three nights, she's a doll. No problems - a little bit of whining when first put in but she settles down in less than a minute and goes to sleep.

After the third night though, she started putting up a fuss and it's just been getting worse. We're not giving in to her demands and nothing has happened to make the crate a "bad" place... I'm happy to go through the retraining with her (she's been abandoned so many times, I'm sure she's just pissed at being separated (by a foot and a half!) from us) but I don't know what we're supposed to do with her at night while she gets used to the crate again.

It's not like I can put her in a box and I'm afraid to just let her roam - she's taken to housebreaking extremely well but she has a few other behaviors we're addressing (counter-surfing and chewing not least among them). More than anything, I'm concerned that if we don't put her in her crate at night, we're basically telling her "ok, you win, no crate" and we'll never get her back in there.

Anyone? Thoughts, comments, suggestions, a couch I can crash on for a good night's sleep? :)

Two of them finally addressed "alternatives" to the crate. (Third one never worked for me...) I'm still going to work on crate training her, but she was a perfect little angel last night sleeping outside the crate in her "alternative" space. Now I know we can work on making the crate a comfortable space for her and keep her from destroying the house in the process. :)

It was interesting to note that one of the links mentioned "frisky terrier types" may never adjust to the crate. We're pretty sure Bella has a bit of that "terrier type" in her and that, along with her feelings of abandonment and her desire to be part of the pack, may all be contributing to this crate issue. I'm not going to give up yet but as long as she remains a good girl overnight, at least I have some breathing room. :) Thanks again!

i have a pair of terrier sisters that were basically yard dogs until i bought them at age 7 months. they are just plain not really right in the head. probably worse because there are 2 of them. but it took a couple of years for them to really starting to give much of a s*&% about me.
don't get me wrong, i love them. and they are great little dogs in their own way. even though they know i am the pack leader, they still are mostly in their own little world.

good luck with this pup. have you tried putting a blanket over the crate?

I think I have the opposite situation from you with your dogs - this little one wants so desperately to be "with the pack". I have to admit, I'm a little worried about separation anxiety but she doesn't show signs of it when we're outside and she's in or when we leave (we check on her without her knowing :evilgrin:).

She's also desperate to please and is just the cutest little thing when she does something right - she seemed downright pleased with herself when she first "conquered" the stairs. She's entirely too cute. :)

It has worked almost every time. Dogs, especially puppies, are pretty motivated by food. What I do is to feed them in the crate, gives them a very positive association. First, I will put the food bowl in the very back of the crate and walk away from the crate door. I leave the crate door open so they can go in and eat. It will progress from there to the dog running and going into the crate before you put the bowl down. I do that for a day or 2 and then start closing the door of the crate when they start to eat and then opening it right away when they are done. By the time I am done, they will usually run to the crate and jump into it when I get a treat out for them when I'm getting ready to leave in the morning. I am crating them while I am doing this when I go to work during the day, but it doesn't seem to interfere with feeding them in the crate. I have trained many, many dogs that way, and I have only had 1 or 2 that it hasn't worked with. But doing it this way lets them know that they will get out and that it isn't such a bad place.

Good Luck with Bella, I saw her pic and read your story, she sounds like a great pup, and she is beautiful.

I'm pretty confident I can get her to like the crate eventually. I wasn't sure about where to put her at night in the meantime but found some info in one of the links BrklynLiberal supplied and we created an "alternative" crate for her in the meantime. She was a very good girl last night and didn't cry at all.

Now we'll just continue with the routine similar to what you suggest here. Only difference is that we've already taught her to sit to receive her dinner in the kitchen so I don't want to feed her in the crate at this point and mess that up.

I've been putting biscuits in the crate and then just walking away. Right now she's still just grabbing the biscuits and bolting from the crate. She'll get better at it though once she realizes we're not going to lock her in before she's ready for that again. She's really so eager to please.

Thanks for the encouragement!

I put them in the crate at other times and close the door while I'm training them, but I always leave the house even if only for a few minutes. I have 2 crates in my house that I use, I put one in my bedroom and one near the back door. I usually have my fosters sleep in my bedroom in the crate. If they are good, they usually get out of the crate at night before they would get out while I am gone. And I always give them a treat when they go in, or sometimes to get them in. I have been known to toss a treat into the crate and shut the door behind them.

Just down leave it on a channel where they have gameshows, the bells, etc drive them crazy. Animal planet isn't so good either.

Good tip but yeah, thanks for the warning on AP and GSN!

so can't help with first hand info. And it sounds like you are on the verge of working it out anyway. Maybe she doesn't need a crate at all?

Anyway, I had a conversation once with a woman who was a dog trainer and dog sitter, and asked
her how she trained them to do that. She said she used the crates that come apart (top and bottom that can be screwed together). And she used only the bottom half (no top) at first and trained them to sleep in there which was not as threatening as a completely enclosed space. She put their favorite blankets and toys in there and rewarded them with praise when they would go in there for any reason. After a week or so she would put the top on and continue the same way. Then she'd put the door on so they were completely contained. A slow process.

What I didn't get was why do it at all? If the dog learns to sleep fine on its own, what's the point of the crate?

On edit: I should add that the crates were in a room that could be and was closed at night (so they didn't roam the house).

My dog has a cushion that serves the same purpose, I suppose, in showing him where he should sleep.
And when I travel I just fold up the cushion and take it with me. It's a familiar object and always
lets him know where to sleep or lie down which seems comforting to him when in an unfamiliar place.
He did destroy a few things in my house as a youngster but really hated it when we were displeased.
So we praised him when he would choose the right thing to chew on and he learned what was off limits for chewing and what was acceptable in short order. And that phase passed as he got a little older.
Now he's so well behaved I just marvel at it. I can take him anywhere.

Sounds like your dog is bright enough and in tune enough to learn quickly.

Most dogs can get out of the crate at some point, but a puppy needs to be in a crate, or contained somehow. But if you are going to fly them eventually, they may as well learn now and be used to it. For most it isn't traumatic if you introduce them the right way. Imagine a dog who has never been in a crate and you try to put them in at 2 years of age or something? Many dogs would really fight it.

Crate training is very important in my opinion. A crate trained dog less likely to be anxious for at least that reason at the vet in their cages (say, for spay surgery or something) because being crated is familiar and not traumatic to them. For traveling it is also very necessary, some "pet friendly" hotels still require the pets to be crated. It gives them a "safe" place to go when they need to chill. Agatha often retreats to her crate to nap with no prompting. At 15 months, we are mostly over the chewing phase, but she has her moments still (she LIVES to shred paper towels), and the last thing I ever want to come home to is a dog with a blockage. It also helps with housebreaking as most dogs (not all, but most) are reluctant to eliminate in the place they sleep and get treats.

Agatha's crate has her wooby (her favorite blanket, she wraps herself up in it to sleep) and is a very relaxing place for her to be. When I had an electrician here, it was invaluable because she was very interesting in everything he was doing and, even removed from the room, she was quite anxious to go back and hang out with him. I had her go in her house and she settled and just napped the rest of the time he was here, letting her out when he was done to say goodbye and get belly scritches.

Something that will occupy her for some time that she ONLY gets in the crate? One thing that worked well for us was to put green beans and a little bit of peanut butter (more as a binder than anything) in the kong and then freeze it. It'll occupy her for hours, and provide good associations with the crate.

One thing that is hard to do is to NOT address her at all when she sets up a fuss, even if only to say "Shush!". This brings attention to her behavior, attention is good, so she'll keep it up. When she IS being calm and quiet, don't forget to praise her, and give the crate a name to mark it. I use house with Agatha, we'll say "In your house" and in she goes, then tell her "Good house!" and I still periodically will praise her with "Good house" when she is calm and I happen to pass by late at night.