ricochetastroman - this constant polarization between both sides

continues to feel like a vice - it is right and left or big oil and judges or supremes and president or supremes(with corporations) against the people or health care against the people or wall street against the people or conservatives who have government jobs and pensions against the people

these polarizations have been going on over a decades -

It feels like Pluto opposite sun - evil versus good - authority against enlightenment

I am tired of everything being for these corporations who were given personhood decades ago and none of the responsibility of personhood

what is the way out of these polarizations/oppositions - I feel stressed when ever I see these arguments happen

Gets down to nasa and the conservatives until they are going to lose their jobs then they want the government

All republican governors of those gulf states and they want it both ways

the rich against the poor and middle class

congress against the people

even disney versus universal

gawd - enough

>It feels like Pluto opposite sun - evil versus good - authority against enlightenment

Pluto is not evil. It is "here" to take the lid off of things and uncover any possible decay/corruption. Lord knows, it has found much and is just getting started. It is a cleansing process. This does not mean we will or will not survive it. We have been warned for decades. If Cancer (the disease) is there, it must be removed. WE CANNOT HURRY THE PROCESS. We just don't like the inconvenience. We have to boldly face the operation as a whole. I know it sux.

> I am tired of everything being for these corporations who were given
> personhood decades ago and none of the responsibility of personhood

At the same time Pluto is doing so many things, transiting Uranus and Saturn keep opposing each other. That's Left vs. Right as you might know it. Right always loses, i.e., Saturn rigid forms (status quo) must always eventually give way to change and newness (Uranus). Too bad knuckledraggers.

>what is the way out of these polarizations/oppositions - I feel stressed when ever I see these arguments happen
Yes, we all feel terribly stressed by all of this crap especially the made-up lies of the Sour Grapes party on the Faux network.
Lies

This crapola has gone on since the cavemen only in different forms. Only a true spiritual revolution (which started with the Jupiter/Neptune/Chiron conjunction of 2008 with Obama can heal it. The massive collective stupidity and ignorance has always been there and will continue. Pluto is telling us that if we don't grow up AS A CULTURE, stressful days lie ahead. We all knew that.

We have to grow our spirituality such as done here proudly. Spread the word. Write your own newsletters. Speak your truth. We're all hurting.

This weekend, the Lunar Eclipse will exacerbate the current Tsquare with Pluto in Capricorn, Saturn in late Virgo, Uranus and Jupiter in Aries; now the Sun will fill out the Grand Cross and the eclipsing Moon will be right on PLUTO.

Trigger, trigger, trigger: that's what it means. It doesn't mean GOOD or BAD. It means AWARENESS. The collective mind of all of us is changing at an extremely rapid base. We can't just bitch about it all. We have to be a big part of the change. We caused it; we have to fix it. That's my take. Let's hear from some other astrologers - hell, it's only my point of view.

The planets aren't here to make things worse. They're actually here to make things better. We have to row better and steer our boats better. That's the truth of the story. Astrology only describes the weather and the waves. :hi:

the arguments of people and corporations was the same then
rich versus the poor
the issues were all the same - it was amazing - it could have been the politics of now if noone said his name

It is hard to be patient with these idiots - they can not hear and don't think so what can you do - it is like they put their fingers in their ears and yell lalalalalala - the louder they yell the more wrong they are

transference is all they do - they cannot see they are the ones doing what they accuse others of

it feels like evil versus good even though you say pluto is not evil - it sure feels like it

I have had all of these oppositions for 20 years and now again in the larger picture - tense - yes

Being so far behind all the other developed countries. Living without health insurance because it cost more than one can pay for and now it is worse instead of better

all these government workers who are always against health care while they are enjoying it paid for by us - ...screaming... wtf ..why is it ok they have it but noone else - congress takes care of themself - jobs go first to military people in all government jobs - just hard to watch, live this crap

leaving the country for somewhere else should have been done 10 or twenty years ago - this country is so backward in so many ways and getting worse each decade

sorry it is hard to watch and harder when I see the planets are part of the energy - makes it seem hopeless rather than enlightening - if the planets were more positive toward a resolution than it would feel better.

Can life be more positive tomorrrow? Can your next breath?

It is not the planets. It is how we have used or abused our own God-given life energies. That's the problem. We have to stop spouting our pain because it just cultivates more pain. Those who appear to be our "opponents" are in the same jam and are doing the best they can.

Your natal Sun opp. Saturn/Pluto is hard and has given you a hard life. The fact that transiting Saturn and Pluto are square now is reigniting your natal tension between the two. What does it mean? It means that YOU HAVE BEEN CARRYING THE WEIGHT OF THE WORLD ON YOUR SHOULDERS. I don't know why - it's quite probably karmic.

Now, with Uranus and Jupiter in Aries, it's time to let it go. I know you are a blessed Aquarian who feels so much of the world's pain. But you have to let it go, you can't save it. Save you and we're all saved.

You also have a very powerful Chiron in Scorpio at the top of your chart as well as a strong Moon in Virgo. All symbols that you won't let yourself off of the hook. Saturn is now square to your 12th harmonic Sun. That's WHY you're feeling frustrated: you feel that you should be able to DO something to cure this. It can't be cured. Only you can cure you. Only I can cure me. But then, it's contagious. People will want to have what you are having. Keep faith. :hi:

save me - what does that mean?

only you can cure you - what does that mean?

What am I curing?
Not reading or watching news. Not feeling for people or the world or myself?
- Curing a physical illness is science mostly and miracles for the rest.
- Curing astrological(life-energy) sickness of some nebulous terms - is cloudy, smokey


am I to Not fix anything?

these are nebulous terms to me (cure save)
- I can not wrap my brain around them
- I can not process them

I know I am not stupid but dense sometimes in concepts that are 'fluffy'
Sometimes I just don't get WORD problems and this feels like Word problems

Can you give concrete examples of someone using or abusing their life energies?
Can you give concrete examples of what someone would do to cure themself?
Can you give concrete examples of what someone would do to save themself?

I have felt like a sober person in a room full of people zombied out on right wing heroin for quite a while. I feel like I am looked at as the person out of step, but the zombies don't realize that their "drug" (conservative fear, Fux Noise, Rush Limp-dick) has removed THEM from reality. But it's like I'm being told I will be ok too if only I will get right and put that needle in my arm as well. I just want to scream WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP!!! But no one will hear me.......but I keep trying as best as I can in small ways to be the best wide awake person I can. Intervention isn't easy when the addicts are so far gone.

The OTHER party is the COLLECTIVE EGO, it's never wrong and projects everything as you stated.

The Dems are the true Self within collectively speaking :hi:

because it rained and stormed on your picnic when he said there was a 20% chance

They can only predict so much, then nature does whatever it wants

We can stay home all the time to avoid the rain and storms or go out and just be aware there may be storms and rain and plan for it or alternatives but not get angry at the weather or the weather man

Is that an analogy that works?

It's that you see the imbalance around you but you don't lose your center.
You have tons of Virgo influence which means that you see it right vs wrong and want to FIX IT. That's what Virgo does.
This is only fixable within.
What does that mean. It means that you let things flow instead of seeing them as broken and needing fixed. Yes, you still
continue living with compassion and want to right the wrongs of life. But you don't get bent out of shape when the
world doesn't meet your standards.

Your standards are just that: your standards. That does not mean you are right or wrong. Other disagree with you and
have their own standards.

Planets in natal charts represent good energies. The abuse of life and astrology is no mystery. I means abusing others, hate, jealousy, envy, greed, etc. It's no different. The world can't fix those problems until you do; and I do. We have to start at
the individual level.

Criticizing and condemning people as having done "wrong" ain't gonna get it. Everyone is doing the best they can IN THEIR OWN
MIND. I saw a statement the other day that says it all: "All will be OK with the way things are when you are OK with the way things are."

Virgo energy has a hard time with this concept, I believe. It's broke; fix it. But it isn't broken.
It's the way it is because it's the way it is. If not, there will always be something that APPEARS to be broken.

Peace inside is what you and all of us need. That can only be done when we start to pick up Aquarian energy (which is your sun sign) Aquarius sees all polarities as two sides of the same coin.

Pisces sees it all as one.

The current political polarities are "real" and scary. "We" keep blaming "them" and it won't get better until we see us all as one.
Look at the friggin middle east and the non-stop warring between Jews and Palestine. They can keep up this us vs them forever until they finally realize what they have in common, not difference. That's the problem with Virgo sight: it sees differences and wants to fix what's "wrong".

Are you at peace? If not, it needs cured. If you are at peace, are you one with God? If not, you have healing to do. Same for all of us. I'm not sure any of this helps, but I really recommend Tolle's book because it is an Aquarian masterpiece of what's needed for peace throughout the land - inner and outer.

because things are the way they are because they are

hard not to tilt at wind mills over that

INTERESTING:

Two people have come into my life via facebook from over 35 to 40 years ago -
They live on opposites sides of the country

one is a virgo (and what might have been) and the other is pisces

They both have cancer and have gone through radiation
No idea who is worse off of the two

The Virgo is always trying to fix things and is critical but does not see himself that way. He is critical he says because he has not made any mistakes in life other than with women. He just could not get that right. Sometimes I have to end conversations with him because of his attitude and connect at another time. Has lived a very tough life but professionally structured and orderly life except two marriages. Went to Vietnam. Has huge savings and multiple houses. Not sure how much he will get to enjoy it.

The Pisces seems to be flying high and off in artist's never land a lot but too weak to go and do somethings and has lost about 100 lbs and is at 134lbs. He lives in fantasy land and lives in today. He is more enjoyable to chat and email with but flying high like some in the DU lounge late at night. Has lived the freelancer, artist's life and seems to still love that life. Rents a room. Has little physically. Has had two wives also.

I have thought this is like looking at the opposites sides of myself and interacting with them.
I also decided my only job is to care no matter what.
Especially with the Virgo, since he seems to 'tick' me off in almost every interaction.
The Virgo is the most needy at times but very independent at others.
I now understand why I made the decision I did 35 years ago.

***********************

I read what you say and understand it but not in my heart or comprehensively -
how the hell do you accept things that are wrong and evil?
I will get the book. god is much better at this than I am.

NO I am obviously not at peace
I do feel one with the god of my understanding because I talk to god a lot - but I guess I argue with god too. And no I don't know what god is and I know religions have no clue.

**************************************

I think of both of these men dying. We are all dying. They just have a sentence now. A finite amount of time. We don't know how long. Anyway, when I think of them, I think we have no REAL idea what happens when we stop breathing in these bodies or if we go anywhere.

Neither man seems depressed. Which is surprising to me. The Pisces draws and paints on his IPAD and is just loving it.

One cannot be OK with something and yet condemn it. It's either OK or not.
I do not believe in evil or bad. I see lack of good. A big difference, not fluffy talk.
We are the ones who define evil, good, bad. By definition, it emanates from our judgement of how the world should be.
Therefore, things will only be ok when they fit your definition of what is ok. A precarious situation.

On a physical level, sure, things are greatly polarized. They seem evil.
We're all operating at various levels of how far we are from our God center. It's that simple.
We have to get back to the garden - to quote Joni Mitchell.
That's what the New Testament is about. Jesus said Judge not and ye shall not be judged.
Do not eat from the tree of good and bad
I believe that's what happens when we start to label good and bad, I think that's what Jesus was saying.

We can't bs ourselves. We're either judgmental or not. When we are, I think, we lock ourselves into a smaller and tinier world.

I think that when J said "forgive them for they know not what they do", he didn't see his punishers as bad or evil. :hi:
It's far from windmills or fluff.

Abanes, Richard.
Title A new earth, an old deception : awakening to the dangers of Eckhart Tolle's #1 bestseller / Richard Abanes.

It was funny to see that listed first in the search

The library does have it - I will see about ordering it

What I see is how to piggy back on top of Tolle's phenomenal success for cash or more radical right fundamentalism whenever the bible is given a shake or two. Nothing more. More duality and more separation. Separation = polarity, I think.

He talks about how to deal with polarities.

I got to thinking:

In an old Ram Dass book, he talks about us and them
your country, my country
then your part of the country, mine
your town, mine
your family, mine
your piece of the family, mine
you, me
this PART OF MYSELF, THAT PART

so it keeps splintering when love isn't involved and oneness

what I've been trying to say is that this large-scale polarity that is showing everywhere is an outward expression
of the split within ourselves. That's what needs healed. If it is, it spreads to the next person, etc. :hi:

Ok I am starting to SEE in my mind's eye this polarity stuff - can not get to ONE until you let go of polarity

Two sides of a coin - if you only see one side - you can not possibly see the whole coin and that it is one coin

split in ourself, myself - planets energies are so polarized in my chart as the energies in the World are too

Comes back to that book -

*** I'm OK you're OK that was popular at one time

Very difficult to see both are ok even though opposite

Do not eat from the tree of good and bad - that is it, isn't it - if you don't see it as good or bad then it becomes just there

It's like I read what you say and it becomes clear, and I think I've got it, then I try to use my words, and it is gone

The elephant in the room - if you only see one part you have no idea there is so much more

my saying for the last couple of years, almost a decade has been

-------- forgive them for they know not what they do ------

It is all one

I don't know, but it sounds good to me.

Think of a knife. Is it good or bad. Bad if you meet it in an alley. Good if you need operated on.
Same knife.

When a mugger mugs you, of course we all see it as bad or "evil." In his mind, it's really good,
because he's gonna have cash! Still it sux. But in his mind, he's become so dehumanized to sink him
to such a debased level that to him, you being stuck doesn't even matter, it doesn't compute.
I think that's what Jesus meant when he said "they know not what they do." That means they
don't know it's "bad".

German SS guards were just following orders. They knew it was awful and "wrong" but if they didn't, they were dead. So, it was
good. It's all relative to the viewer, don't you think?

What Tolle is trying to say, in my perspective, is that by getting LOST in reactionism to what is good or bad keeps us off
of center. And I believe that when we're off center, we're temporarily unlinked to God - our center. That's what "sin" is.
Being unlinked. I saw a marvelous interview with Neil Young on Charlie Rose TV last week. I admire both so much.

Neil talked about being a channel for his music, altho thankfully, he didn't use those words. He said no matter what I'm
doing, if a song "comes to me" (where did it come FROM?) I have to split what I'm doing and immediately go find a guitar and write it down. It's his JOB to be available for spirit when it wants to work thru him. An amazing statement, I think. He is thankful for
his link to spirit and his Scorpio sense of dedication is true and right on for the creation process. I think this is why
Neil is so mesmerizing especially for a guy who can't sing and is a god-awful guitarist.

When Neil or Dylan for that matter start to judge what's coming thru, it's an "insult" to God who actually can't be insulted.
But it's a "sin" to abuse the pure creativity that's coming through. So, it we extend that, we can see in all people that they
are "shining" the best they can IN THEIR MINDS.

I'm enjoying this dialogue with you and the challenge of the topic. Again, your chart has great Virgo influence so its not easy to relax its black and white filter.

By the way, your chart does not have much opposition. Yes, your sub-generation had the opposition to Saturn and Pluto. However, your chart has the wonderful Venus in Pisces as well as the responsible, attentive Moon in Virgo. Your Chiron in Scorpio at the very top of your chart rules the whole thing. This also presses you towards "not letting people off of the hook." If there are 2 signs that are really tough on themselves and therefore others, it's Scorpio and Virgo. Your Venus in Pisces really helps to counter that.

Also, your strong Jupiter in Sag opposite Uranus is freedom-loving. That helps you transcend the judgmental nature of the Virgo traits too. The retrograde Saturn in your 7th house opposite your natal Mercury in Aquarius makes me wonder if dogma was forced upon you by a distant father? (Saturn Rx)

I could go on forever; I have to learn to shut my mouth. :hi:

I am thinking of what you said about Neil Young and messages

I get messages but only when relaxed and in spirit (like doing massage)

Some of my personal judgment is based on my 'knowing' and seeing the person who is (I see their dark side) and not the person they project
Comes from wanting to protect self (have had a mugger and other attacks before) so the protection of self - prevents messages - inability to feel safe because trust has been broken - this obviously from this conversation means - I am preventing spirit from following

It is ALL of our jobs to be available for Spirit
When we are in polarity we are unavailable.
At least that is what I am getting from this conversation

When you mentioned the black and white filter - it has been stated before (30 or 40 years ago) - I was clueless then as to the meaning but have more of a grasp of that nebulous topic now

The first time I interpreted my chart at a weekend class 40 years ago and all I have seen is those lines opposing and the opposites and it seems to play out in real life with intensity of polarization. That polarization energy has become more intense in the last two decades and as I watch the polarization in the world. I just dropped off a news site because people were bashing Obama with rw talking points and no knowledge. It is hard not to judge them as idiots.

The I'm ok your ok book came out for my generation - the one upmanship and the inability to see others equally - I was told it was the Saturn/Pluto thing

Yes the Venus in Pisces is so different than any of the other energies and gets me in trouble - I care for every stray (person) there is out there and too many that are on drugs or emotionally unavailable or incapable of being a grownup. (Myself included in the Peter Pan syndrome) and then I have to walk away but they lighten my heart and sometimes get it racing.

Not aware of the Chiron and haven't read much on it - like I have all the other planets or astrology book writers.

The Virgo energy is good with some things but hell with the judgment and perfection (never used to call it that)- The moon in Virgo seems to be weepy sometimes, just downright muddling, pity party and get out the hats - although I suspect they are partying with Saturn and Pluto at the same time.

It is like being on a seesaw sometimes. right side of chart to the left side of chart

I get excited and start to move ahead on things and Whap, Wam Pow, I am pulled back by the questions - is this smart? What if this? What if that? FEAR FEAR FEAR - and the seesaw crashes back down on that right side of the chart and the fun is over.

Not sure how you are using the word dogma or distant father
Authority figures have always been a challenge and some have said it is because of the opposition of leo pluto opp of the Aquariansun BUT
you are talking about mercury (thinking communicator writer ) and Saturn ( the party pooper and debbie downer, structure and rules )

I don't think I have looked at that opposition much of mercury and Saturn - just never thought of them as opposites but they are very much within 3 degrees of each other - so expand/expound/give more words/ on your thought line there or the energy there or polarity or lack of energy

>Some of my personal judgment is based on my 'knowing' and seeing the person who is (I see their dark side) and not the person they project.
Yes, I can see where we're all behind our masks. The child inside is afraid, but it's not "wrong". There is no wrong.
The desire to protect yourself is perfectly normal, but when the walls get too high, you can't get out.


>It is ALL of our jobs to be available for Spirit
It's not our Job, there are no "jobs." It's the only thing we CAN do or else we're living on a dying vine, eh?

>When we are in polarity we are unavailable.
>At least that is what I am getting from this conversation
I think so, yes, I believe this.
When Jesus said "do not judge" he wasn't giving us list of PROPER BEHAVIOR. That is exactly what has led to guilt from the pulpit!
He said it because whenever you judge, you are ALWAYS 100% WRONG. When you judge, there is something missing from your view.
Judgment can only take place when compared to some known, correct standard.

Burping at the table in some countries is a compliment to the chef. Ha ha ha.

>When you mentioned the black and white filter - it has been stated before (30 or 40 years ago) - I was clueless then as to the >meaning but have more of a grasp of that nebulous topic now

Great!

>The first time I interpreted my chart at a weekend class 40 years ago and all I have seen is those lines opposing and the opposites >and it seems to play out in real life with intensity of polarization. That polarization energy has become more intense in the last >two decades and as I watch the polarization in the world. I just dropped off a news site because people were bashing Obama with rw >talking points and no knowledge. It is hard not to judge them as idiots.
Your Venus opposition is no big deal. Your Sun opposition to Saturn (not to Pluto, it's too wide) is generational. Your whold high school class had the same thing, so it's not so much personal.

Your Mercury opp. to Rx Saturn is a much bigger deal than you may know. It has to be examined by proper dialogue.

>one upmanship and the inability to see others equally - I was told it was the Saturn/Pluto thing
It's not the one-upmanship from Saturn or Pluto, it's the fact that both planets were in Leo.

>Yes the Venus in Pisces is so different than any of the other energies and gets me in trouble - I care for every stray (person) >there is out there and too many that are on drugs or emotionally unavailable or incapable of being a grownup. (Myself included in >the Peter Pan syndrome) and then I have to walk away but they lighten my heart and sometimes get it racing.
Yes, the downside of anything Piscean is letting people walk on you, however, it softens up some of your harder aspects and is welcome.

>Not aware of the Chiron and haven't read much on it - like I have all the other planets or astrology book writers.
Chiron is amazingly powerful and important. I have much egg on my face from having ignored it for 30 years. I'm learning now.
It bring Virgo influence; better said, it is what makes Virgo as it is.

>The moon in Virgo seems to be weepy sometimes, just downright muddling, pity party and get out the hats - although I suspect they >are partying with Saturn and Pluto at the same time.
The Moon, Saturn, Pluto are not good candates for "crying spells." That's certainly coming from elsewhere.
Venus in Pisces, Venus opp. the Moon, exact trine from Neptune to your Venus in Pisces: that's it.
Makes you FEEL for everyone.

>It is like being on a seesaw sometimes. right side of chart to the left side of chart
I don't think it's seesawing - I thinks it's the tough Virgo/Aquarian/Saturn/Pluto part of you vs the overly sensitive Pisces part.
Most of us are this way, I find.

The tension you've felt so much of has been the 2 year fight between Saturn yet in Virgo and the revolutionary Uranus in Pisces.
That's WHY things have been up/down, left/right and lots of tension outputting the TParty. TP

>I get excited and start to move ahead on things and Whap, Wam Pow, I am pulled back by the questions - is this smart?
IT can't pull you back. This is the voice of the brake pedal. This is extremely common in my office and comes from Saturn.
Remember I said RX Saturn is opposite your Mercury? (mind) That's it. That's what needs examined closely.

Saturn is fear
Saturn is fear
Saturn is fear

>What if this? What if that? FEAR FEAR FEAR - and the seesaw crashes back down on that right side of the chart and the fun is over.
No one stops the fun. There is no one out there to stop the fun. It is you.
It most likely comes from one of the parents who was the one that was more restrictive/fearful.

>Not sure how you are using the word dogma or distant father
THIS is where the problem lies. Simple: Who went with the flow (all is OK) and who didn't (all is not OK)

>Authority figures have always been a challenge and some have said it is because of the opposition of leo pluto opp of the Aquarian >sun BUT you are talking about mercury (thinking communicator writer ) and Saturn ( the party pooper and debbie downer, structure >and rules )
Aquarius is naturally defiant of authority figures. Tis greatly exaggerated with Aqu. rising and the Saturn opposition.


>I don't think I have looked at that opposition much of mercury and Saturn - just never thought of them as opposites but they are >very much within 3 degrees of each other - so expand/expound/give more words/ on your thought line there or the energy there or >polarity or lack of energy
The Merc/Saturn is huge. It holds THE key to unlocking the chart.
Hope this helps you.
Be well :hi:

I will send you a pm
Give you my email
We can decide how to proceed from here
I have lost all your contact information when my computer crashed in December

I took off and went out to get away from myself - it is now hours later and the mind has been churning



So let's continue this off the public forum

an interview with Bob Dylan. When the interviewer asked him about the meaning of some of his lyrics, he said it was up to the listener to make sense of them. He, too, realizes that writing is a gift that he is receiving and he is grateful to share it with others.

Ricoshetastroman, where did you get that Bullwinkle icon? Being a graduate of "Whatsamatta U many years ago and all, I have misplaced my coonskin coat and antlers. Professor Boris Badenov flunked me in forensics, but to tell you the truth I think The Fractured Fairy Tale fairy wasn't the fairy. I think it was Natasha and she framed me! She kept smashing him with her giant book and blaming me ... I barely graduated but this was because I got straight A's in history from Mr Know-It-all (Sherman was a bud and tutored me). I went there on scholarship (Polo, Dudley Dooright was my coach, he taught me about horses, heh, heh, heh ...). I am thinking our school mascot icon is out there somewhere. Are you a fellow classmate? I suspect so! I would not want to "copy" you but as a fellow graduate, maybe you can help me find an icon similar to yours.

I used to date Rocket J. but he was a bit squirrel-y and I haven't seen him for years. As "proof" of my credibility I can even give you some of their quotes:



Bullwinkle: You just leave that to my pal. He's the brains of the outfit.
General: What does that make you ?
Bullwinkle: What else? An executive.

Rocky: Hey Bullwinkle, we're in real trouble now!
Bullwinkle: Oh good, Rocky! I hate that artificial kind!



Love,
Cat in Seattle

I took the one from this site and put it through hand-editing. If you can find one, I can help you modify.

Why hell yes, I have a PhD from Wassamatta U. "Post Hole Digger" :hi:

You might have to shrink it like:

Now you gave me something neat to play with. I'll get right on it!

Love,
Cat