A freeper dilemma that I didn't want to post in GD.

I don't spend much time with RWingers these days. Since * took office there is too much of a chasm between me and them for me to want to socialize with any of them. However, what do you do when you run into just the type of people you imagine as running rampant all over Free Republic and listening to Rush Limbaugh everyday and they turn out to be nice people?

I was out handing flyers for my Congressional candidate at our annual Strawberry Festival this morning. Most of the people were dressed in beach gear, but there was a fiftiesh couple there dressed in outfits that were red, white and blue with stars, you know stuff the rest of us wouldn't be caught dead in these days because of what * has done to smear any pride we ever had in being Americans.

I didn't approach them because of how they were dressed but the husband asked me what I was peddling. I told him I was working for the congressional candidate in the district. He asked me what party and I said the Democratic Party.

He said pleasantly enough, "never mind we're the enemy, Republicans." So I smiled and started to walk away, but then his wife asked me for a flyer and I gave it to her.

Then he thanked me for what I was doing. It was a very good and American thing. So there I was feeling like a pile of you know what and feeling very conflicted.

What do you do when you run into people like this who probably voted for George Bush and they turn out to be very nice people and yet you want to tear your hair out because all you can think of is WHY?????

Will we ever be able to heal the hate that has built up between us?

A great deal of them are beginning to wake up to what has happened, too. Not all Republicans are like the ones we have grown to detest. Many are good and moral people who love this country but just hate when she is put down.

I'd say that we should just start seeing everyone as people first. Those who are within your sphere of influence are for you. I believe the experience you had is a reminder to see things in a different way. If you notice. The husband said they are Republicans, but the wife asked for the flier. A seed is planted. For all power comes from the woman.

sweetest guy EVER. Just a great guy, very personable, friendly, professional and kind. Without any probing from me, I found out he is republican BUT he is republican because he was raised as one. That is how his parents voted, so he in turn votes the same.

He was very interested learning dh and I are progressive and engaged us in political conversation. We were happy to oblige. I was just surprised, one that he has always voted republican and two that he was so open to sharing ideas about things. He seemed to just despise shrub as much as us, and was said he cringes when shrub appears on tv and speaks for what the guy does to the english language--which cracked me up.

I tried to be careful and not too vehement about my views while being open to his. He sounds like a closet progressive when I've talked to him. Maybe there are few people in his world (as a physician so many w/money seem to be on the right),that he can talk about such things with, so I did my best.

Don't know if it made any difference, but it was an interesting chat just the same. ;)

do not experience the built up hate that you are talking about, maybe they are just socially conservative people and don't like all of the "loose morals" they see in society and perhaps blame on liberals....

I know what you mean, though, and agree with leaning_green that they point out rightly so that nothing like this is ever so clearly black and white boundaried.

DemEx

:-)

What I usually do is tell them: "You could not have predicted the mess they've gotten us into or all the lies they've told us but, now that you know how corrupt this admin is there is something you can do about it, ie, support John Conyers" etc.

I try to remind myself that they are just people like anyone else. And, we all need to unite to bring this cabal down!

"Will we ever be able to heal the hate between us?"

I think that we are in the midst of the second American Civil War. Not fought with guns, but on a psych-social level. This is the war that was deliberately created by Rove et al for political gain. But it also reflects a deeper schism in the American populace, those motivated by selfish greed and those who are not. Those who are independent thinkers, those who are not.

(Someone once said that when a dictatorship came to America it would be holding a flag in one hand and a cross in another. How true. I now cringe at the sight of a cross or flag. Sad isn't it?)

Any war does an incredible amount of damage and this will be no exception. I think it will take a long time to heal the divisions in America.

For myself I try to keep in mind that most people are totally enmeshed in their culture, they buy wholeheartedly the prevailing norms, mores and myths of their time and place. This has been the case throughout history. Most people do not question the status quo. Those of us who do are the exception. So we are the aberration, not them.

Also humans on this earth are on many levels of physical, mental, psychological and spiritual development. And we have to let them be where they are, it is their journey. We need to work our own paths. We each have about 1400 lives to work on soul evolution. We are not all on the same level.

That all said, it is hard to allow them time to evolve when they put the rest of us in harm's way. It is frustrating to see so many people out of touch with reality. Spirituality aside, it is certainly not the best coping strategy when facing danger. When faced with a threat it is best to face things realistically and take appropriate action. So on just a pure survival level it is very frustrating to live with people who will not see what is right before them, and by doing so put us in harm's way.

But again I assume that is our karma for right now. Something we are meant to learn from all of this.

So on just a pure survival level it is very frustrating to live with people who will not see what is right before them, and by doing so put us in harm's way.

I can give people lots of slack :-) for how they are, and understand forces motivating them, but when their behavior causes such harm and devastation to others, my understanding and love seem to dry up....

I have lost respect and love for lots of American friends and family for supporting this Bush regime, I feel bad for being so judgmental, but the fact remains - as I see it at this time - that they are in many ways being very selfish and unconcerned about the welfare of others, for the rest of the world and its people, animals, and vegetation.
With all of the information out there, I cannot not see them as choosing to stick their heads in the sand and ignore any suffering/damage that they personally cause (!) by supporting extremists like Bush.....

But this greatly bothers me as well, when I do feel the personal love that many of these Repub backers can share.

It is a painful dilemma for me still.

DemEx

all the people.... i love and love me.... are republican.

when they say we are the enemy, i say, no we arent. we are brothers and sisters, one.....


i live in such an unique environment, where i walked my spiritual journey around intolerance. my biggest hurdle, yet greatest gift was becoming tolerant to intolerance. and finding love.

surrender to surrender.


i have gone beyond 3d of course, i was sittin in 4d for a time. then came to the bridge of 5th dimension. crossing hte bridge i saw how the different diminsions worked. i sat in 5d for a while. learned what is is to have a life of 5d. then, boom..... i was pushed out of my world of 5d back onto the gorund of the fast paced, ego driven 3d world. the truly amazing experience in this, being 5d amongst the 3d, is all the people allowed spirit to spirit. and though they may not be cognitive of it, i have been able to communicate with people living a 3d world, spirit to spirit. 5d.

anyway, what is the answer, give them love. thank you. value any drop of love. it grows. both within and with out. your healing gift to the world. you may not change minds, but you stop the battle. you bring love. stop movemrnt of polarity, pushing and shoving, and comes to stillness.

...that I'm almost embarrassed to post this.

My thought is that there's something wrong with them but it's not immediately apparent. IMO, you jumped the gun when you said you felt like a pile of "you know what" when the woman asked for the flyer. She could have been asking for the flyer to pass on to her local republican group.

So I'd venture to say that if you got to know them any better, you'd find out there is something wrong somewhere. Even if they're "old school republican," they'd have to be grossly out of touch to be unaware of what this party stands for today.




Cher

they'd have to be grossly out of touch to be unaware of what this party stands for today.

What, if not selfishness and unconcern for others outside the direct environment or religious group or culture would motivate anyone to support this extremism?

This leads me to the conclusion that the 'love' that these people show is conditional love, (if that even truly exists) is 'love' that feels to me as being hierarchical and tribal, only apparent when they feel they have the upperhand somehow, or are in the majority.....a condescending kind of 'love'.

It does not ring true to me anymore, and I do judge it and end up rejecting it.

I need to look more to my role model Jesus (who I learned about as a child) - who did accept people, but who had no problem strongly admonishing those who were selfish and "blind" to the truth. Maybe his example - which I interpret as being very strident and not at all 'passive' and gentle - is what I need to focus on more with this issue.

DemEx

Why don't you say: we are all Americans, we're all having a hard time now, what we need to
do is make the government follow the rules again and quit lying to us. I am tired of being
patronized, how they can joke with the record this Republican majority has beats me. If I was a Republican, I would be ashamed to admit it right now.

which is probably why the wife took your flyer. So why feeling "like a pile?" Because you initially felt prejudice and they didn't live up to your stereotype? If so be happy that you get to change your stereotype.

I think that's the way to treat people: with politeness, with respect.

You were probably judging by appearances to avoid confrontation. I'm prejudiced about cars that gun their engines - I tend not to walk in front of them. But I try to look for openings, like a driver waving me on. Because I know I can't judge well from appearances (to finish my metaphor, my pal has a car whose idle is hosed and it races up and down on its own.)

Sorry for going on too long
c