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NEOBuckeye (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-03-05 07:23 PM Original message |
Astrologers: Uranus + Peak Oil = ?????? |
Edited on Thu Mar-03-05 07:34 PM by NEOBuckeye
Something is definitely in the air. I've been feeling it since Wednesday. Maybe it's just DU, but there has been a dramatic increase of interest in this subject over the past 24-48 hours:
-- Oil prices could hit 80 dollars in next two years: OPEC http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1280637 Gas 2.00+ a gallon, interest rates on mortgages soar http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3214039#3214075 End of Suburbia (Peak Oil movie ......link to watch a few clips) http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3214299 Please stop legitimizing Peak Oil paranoia. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3208660&mesg_id=3208660&page= -- Could a sudden, major spike in energy/oil prices later this month (i.e. Gas = $4.50/gal?) trigger massive protests and anger directed towards the Bush Misadministration? Even for those of us (myself included) who have been apprehensively following what is more and more developing into the show-stopping story of the century, things are staring to unfold maybe a little sooner than what we had expected. You know what I'm thinking right now? Pluto's trip through Capricorn beginning in 2008 is going to be very, very ugly. Pluto is only at 24 Sagittarius right now, getting ready to go retrograde, and we're already starting to get a glimpse of what lies not too far ahead. And if one of Capricorn's major themes is about living within your means. Well... ...I think America is in for a VERY nasty shock. |
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Nancy Waterman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-03-05 08:26 PM Response to Original message |
1. There has been talk of Iran creating an Iranian Bourse |
Edited on Thu Mar-03-05 08:26 PM by Nancy Waterman
to trade oil in euros. If that comes about soon and paves the way for others to trade oil in euros, our dollars could continue to fall and buy far less oil, and we will be hit by massive inflation rather quickly. Uranus always brings unexpected change suddenly.
Here are excerpts from a few months old article, pre our November election, on the subject. I have no link. The Iranians are about to commit an "offense" far greater than Saddam Hussein's conversion to the euro of Iraq’s oil exports in the fall of 2000. Numerous articles have revealed Pentagon planning for operations against Iran as early as 2005. While the publicly stated reasons will be over Iran's nuclear ambitions, there are unspoken macroeconomic drivers explaining the Real Reasons regarding the 2nd stage of petrodollar warfare - Iran's upcoming euro-based oil Bourse. |
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mhr (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-03-05 09:57 PM Response to Original message |
2. The Powers That Be Will Do Everything In Their Power To Keep Prices |
In check.
It would take a major change in supply to have prices rocket to $ 4.50 per gallon in a very short time span. However, Peak Oil is a real pending problem that will unfold over the next twenty to thirty years. Once we are on back side of the supply curve, prices will steadily rise year after year. |
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NEOBuckeye (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Mar-04-05 12:26 AM Response to Reply #2 |
4. I don't think they have as much power as they want us to believe anymore. |
Edited on Fri Mar-04-05 12:32 AM by NEOBuckeye
They never did. Any administration that resorts to rule by fear and intimidation is inherently weak and extremely vulnerable to demolition, once the people realize that they've been duped big time, and fight back. This will be the absolute ruin of Bush, Cheney and the Republican Party. The trick for them is, how much longer can they keep the "Big Lie" going?
But make no mistake. America is going to suffer very dearly for entrusting Bush and his Cabal of Fools with the guardianship of our future. ALL of our futures. As for Peak Oil, production is stretched to the limit as it is. The Saudis promised an increase in their production a couple of months ago, but so far, nothing has happened. It would appear that they may have reached peak production of oil. And if things couldn't get any more interesting, Mexico's biggest oil field and the world's second largest has also peaked. http://www.energybulletin.net/4574.html What is so bad about this? Well, if economic growth depends upon a cheap, constant and easily accessible supply of energy, when that supply becomes more expensive, less constant and less easily accessible, economic growth slows down, can grind to a halt and even "go into reverse" (i.e. layoffs, business shut down, and in extreme cases, economic collapse and depression). The problem for us, then, is not the approximate date when the Oil runs out, but when economic growth is no longer possible due to a decline or drop in oil production. That day will come much, much sooner than the day when the very last drop of oil is slurped up out of the Earth. The truth is that we will never run out of oil. We will just run out of the cheap, easily accessible oil that has in an a devestatingly shortsighted way become the quintessential ingredient to powering our infrastructure. It's very telling that the Bushes/NeoConservatives are plotting another war, when they really should be breaking the news to the American people that the age of unrestricted economic growth is over. Better, legitimate leaders would already be unleashing the "Manhattan Project" of energy. |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Mar-11-05 07:28 PM Response to Reply #2 |
10. Some of us think we are on teh back side of the curve |
alraedy
By the way... the price went up by a whole whooping forty cents in the least 48 hours |
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Pallas180 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-03-05 11:35 PM Response to Original message |
3. Iran to Dimbot: Take that twerp, checkmate.....of course |
cowboys are not known to be heavy thinkers, so if he does rush in -
the oil spigot will close sooner than expected.... like fairly immediately...so stop worrying about "Peak Oil" - ___ "Iran threat: Attack by West risks all 'Middle East oil' SPECIAL TO WORLD TRIBUNE.COM Thursday, March 3, 2005 Iran has warned that Gulf Arab oil would be endangered by any U.S. attack on the Islamic republic.In the first such threat, a leading Iranian official raised the prospect of Iranian retaliation against Middle East oil exports. The official said such Gulf oil states as Kuwait and Saudi Arabia could be threatened, Middle East Newsline reported. "An attack on Iran will be tantamount to endangering Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and – in a word – the entire Middle East oil," Iranian Expediency Council secretary Mohsen Rezai said on Tuesday. About 40 percent of the world's crude oil shipments passes through the two-mile wide channel of the strategic Straits of Hormuz. Iranian forces are deployed at the head of the channel. Oman and the United Arab Emirates are located on the other side. Teheran could easily block the Straits of Hormuz and use its missiles to strike tankers and GCC oil facilities, according to the new edition of Geostrategy-Direct.com. Within weeks, the rest of the world would be starving for oil and the global economy could be in danger. The U.S. Energy Information Administration projects that oil tanker traffic through the Straits of Hormuz will rise to about 60 percent of global oil exports by 2025. Rezai, a former commander of the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps and a candidate for president, told the Fars News Agency that any Western attack on Iran would send oil prices rocketing to $70 per barrel. He said such a significant increase in oil prices would also be sparked by international sanctions on Teheran. " |
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NEOBuckeye (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Mar-04-05 03:43 AM Response to Reply #3 |
5. And thus, Iran can hold the entire Western World over a barrel. Literally! |
Wow, Pallas. This never even occured to me, but what a damning revelation! This is HUGE!
Any attempted US attack/invasion of Iran now or in the forseeable future would set in motion a global catastrophe of epic proportions. If the Iranians responded to a US invasion attack by cutting off their own exports, and additionally by targeting and destroying Saudi and Kuwaiti oil exports, they would effectively be cutting off the energy lifeline to the entire Western World. And without Oil as the energy of default necessity, the entire Western World -- particularly those nations most dependent on Oil for transportation and food production -- would experience massive convulsions and collapse of infrastructure. Governments would be overthrown and nations would collapse into total anarchy while their leaders find themselves dragged into the streets and destroyed by extremely violent mobs. One step before this, and even more devestating would be the immediate and ferocious retalliation by the Western World against the United States for invading Iran. Most of these nations already strongly oppose an invasion of Iran, and are instead -- as Russia, China and the EU have been doing -- seeking to establish "friendly" trade agreements and other non-threatening arrangements with the Iranians. They would take a United States unilateral invasion of Iran and the threat of oil export cutoff as a very grave threat to their own national security, and would immediately retaliate aganst Washington by economic (i.e. Dumping the Dollar) and even military/nuclear means. Under this scenario, the end result could only be a no-win Armageddon -- the destruction of humanity. Bottom Line: With Iran in the quintessential position to either allow or deny the Western World its' petroleum lifeline, the Iranians may very well have checkmated a rogue US Executive in the game of Geopolitics. This new, stark reality is both fatal flaw and deathblow to the Bush religion of NeoConservatism as a methodology for US global domination by resource hoarding. Quite literally, the Iranians have the US over a barrel. I think we need to play nice with these people. |
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Pallas180 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Mar-04-05 11:25 AM Response to Reply #5 |
6. Actually Buckeye, |
although many here on DU think rationally,
the people in the administration and pentagon - don't. and since they are in charge of the red button, it doesn't matter how rationally we think. All the Iranians have to do is sink a number of large ships in that tiny two mile strait - and no tankers will be able to get in or out to fill up with oil. Should the assache be stupid enough to attack Iran, which he is, the American public may finally realize what the rest of the world knows. With any kind of luck, maybe even the neo-con dominated Congress will turn against him and bring charges of illegal wars, or something, anything to get rid of him and his crew. Actually it was interesting that he went to Europe - of course with an army of protection - because I suppose possibly he could have been arrested there (Germany or Bruxelles) and brought to the World Court. Then we all could have exhaled with relief. |
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Nancy Waterman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-06-05 08:44 PM Response to Reply #5 |
7. The interesting thing about htis scenario |
is that it proves Iran doesn't need a nuclear weapon. It has its own "nuclear" option: stop the oil!!
|
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seventythree (904 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-08-05 03:52 AM Response to Original message |
8. have you read about that |
computer model that futurist and a star wars physicist has put together? I wish I could remember it's name, but the article I read about it mentions 2008, if I recall correctly, as bringing something monumental in change. I believe it say that hints of it coming will occur in 2005,(or it could have been 2008/2011 as those dates stick in my mind) so your post gave me the willeys. That and the dream I had last weekend. Yep, something is in the air. I dreamed of an economic collapse and I was gasping for air, literally, at its suddenness and enormity. It was a nightmare, and I woke up.
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greenman3610 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-10-05 08:45 PM Response to Reply #8 |
9. there's a giant t-square shaping up for the period 2008-2012 |
http://www.gaiamind.org/aug13-2010.html
kind of peaks in July-august 2010. take a look at the alignment of Saturn, Jupiter, uranus, and Pluto. Pretty heavy, and I've been trying to put it out of my mind since I realized it all makes a grand cross with my natal sun-mars conjunction. I ran this one by a very well known astologer a while back and he kind of whistled... |
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NEOBuckeye (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Mar-12-05 02:59 AM Response to Reply #9 |
11. There is also the upcoming Pluto Opposition to the Natal US Sun (2014-16) |
Wow. Pluto in Capricorn opposes the Natal US Sun in Cancer from 2014-2016. That looks like a real doozy. If we all even manage to make it that far. And if we do, in what form might we, as a civilization, survive?
God, with all that's coming down the pipe, it seems like it will be amazing if any of us can last in reasonably decent shape through the next decade. The US, as it is today, almost certainly will not. The country might not even survive to see its' Pluto Return in 2022. Talk about living in interesting times... -- Marjorie Orr The Real Test: Pluto in Capricorn: 2008 to 2024 Pluto, planet of transformation, deconstruction and reconstruction will move into Capricorn, sign of established government and money making enterprises, to stay till 2024. It will trigger the American chart’s cardinal T square from 2009 opposing Venus, Jupiter, the Sun and squaring Saturn through the following seven years. It may start with an optimistic push for success or power as the over confident Pluto Jupiter affect kicks in. But following behind will be a dismantling of old structures, a reducing to ashes to clear the ground for the phoenix to arise. Though it will not be a fast process. Pluto has not been in Capricorn since the 18th century when the American War of Independence occurred, so the USA is coming full circle, in some sense back to where it began. Sometimes these major influences bring low what rose to prominence on the previous cycle. The Ottoman Empire grew to greatness under Suleiman the Magnificent when Pluto was in Capricorn in 1515 to 1530, as he took over Arabia, captured Belgrade and attacked Vienna. Next time round for Pluto in Cap. in 1768, the Ottoman Empire lost Crimea, the effective end of the great empire which Suleiman created outside the Middle East. Challenges Come in Threes To add to the challenges running into the first half of the next decade, Saturn will also be in Libra from late 2009 to 2011, squaring Pluto in the heavens, suggesting major wars out in the world. It also transits round the USA’s cardinal planets in these years, bringing strain, cutback and losses. Then in 2011, disruptive Uranus moves into Aries to pick up the cardinal square to Pluto, though it will have been in orb for three to four years previously. This brings upheavals, revolutions, violence, freedom fighters, an unsettling of the established order. http://www.star4cast.com -- Sounds like the makings of a real revolution in the works to me. Top it off with the real possibility that the GOP might very well remain the entrenched "uniparty" in government until this time, and you've also got the Pluto Opposition against the Republican Natal Sun at 14 Cancer. "This will be a time of tremendous ferment, chaos, perhaps anarchy, as old structures and authorities are swept away or violently opposed." Comeuppance, anyone? Incidentally, the US and * share the same Natal Sun degree, in 13 Cancer. I think it's been mentioned here before how accurately * personifies the US as a nation, which is quite a disturbing thought. On the other hand, * will also have his Natal Sun in Cancer opposed by Pluto in Capricorn during the same period from 2014-2016. "Big deal, he won't be President then", you say? I don't know. I really don't know. These days, with "Darth" Cheney and "Siths" like Negroponte and Gonzalez running the shop, and a still painfully impotent Democratic opposition, as evidenced by the Bankruptcy Bill vote, what would stop these guys from rolling back the very same 22nd amendment for Presidential term limits that their party put into place in the beginning? And if we have another "9/11", they'll just suspend the Constutution altogether anyway, and probably install Dimson as Chimp in Chief indefinitely. It's a lot of speculation at this point. But who knows? Anything can happen in these dark times. The point I was trying to make, however, is about * being "President" during the Pluto Opposition in Capricorn to the Natal US Sun in Cancer in 2014-16. And since the President represents the US Sun... "This will be a time of tremendous ferment, chaos, perhaps anarchy, as old structures and authorities are swept away or violently opposed." That really sticks out in my mind. How about anyone else? |
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divineorder (513 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Mar-12-05 07:42 AM Response to Reply #11 |
12. Normally this would get it's own thread |
But in light of what I read in this thread I would like for you to comment on this: I posted this in a thread at propechies.us called "The Regreening of America".
Divine Order Guest Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 4:45 am Post subject: The Regreening of America Will register to this site shortly. I have been an astrologer for nearly 30 years now, and interested in predictions and mystical stuff for even longer. Sometimes I have strong intuitions (unfortunately negative ones at times). There has been a vision of sorts that has been nagging at me for some time. Whenever I think of the year 2050, I see America as a vast sea of green-"the world's forest", so to speak. Given the unprecedented forest loss here, I find such a vision intriguing. Time has allowed me to fill in some of this stuff. First of all, large tracts of abandoned towns are not going to be resettled, but allowed to be reclaimed by forest and prairie. Secondly, there will be an explosion of urban gardening like nobody's business. People will be growing crops and everything else on top of rooftops, on patios, everywhere. One reason will be food self-sufficiency, another cooling effects of the plants will be considered quite valuable in and of themselves. And Monsanto's arrogant attempt to rule nature bill rebound into such an explosion of home-grown food that the world has not seen in centuries. Also plants help against flooding and wind loss. Several agribusinesses, depening on massive financial subsidies from the Government and stockholders will fold, forcing an explosion in truck farming and long-distance exporting of goods from local farmers.Back to top |
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divineorder (513 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Mar-12-05 07:50 AM Response to Reply #12 |
13. Part Two |
Aquariusmoon
Guest Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 5:04 am Post subject: Continued They are dependent on the same heavily invested money as the rest of business in America now is, and when it no longer produces a profit for stockholdersl, they will simply close. Needless to say, this causes a scramble for additional sources. Coops, who have never played the stock market, become quite prominent and numerous. Other ethnic groups like the Vietnamese and other groups not to far from their farming roots begin taking over some of the abandoned land. The remaining horrific feedlots, now abandoned begin to sprout and grow-triggering lush plant growth over a wide area near the places. This ties into another prediction I have made: the revival of handcrafts, canning, home sewing, and other such arts. For a long time there has been a thrifting movement=but It has only gone in fits and starts. But when old hippies with a sense of artistry start up again, it will take off. A lot of people will remember those old crocheting and macrame lessons from the seventies, quilting will revive, and so will canning.Back to top Aquariusmoon Guest Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 6:35 am Post subject: Really Divine Order Still more: a person will be driving along the expressway, see something that looks like a McDonalds or a strip mall, and will be startled that it's actually a private home. After the economic meltdown, businesses that are simply too far out to sustain become people's homes as businesses scramble to unload now useless commercial inventory. There is actually an excess of commercial property right now barely being rented. No flashes yet on Government structure, but I suspect deevolution will be a factor. State Governors will take greater power due to the need to handle the immediate crisis, and several great ones rise to the challenge. Indeed, one of the changes may well be that a Council of Governors becomes part of the Federal Legislative Process somehow and can counter a President who is too arrogant for words. They may even have a seat in Congress to represent their interests-an overall Senator and an overall Congressperson, or they may designate one. The Church: One surprising development will be home churches. With the internet making it possible to get advanced theological knowledge, religious meetups will flourish. Many people used to this sort of structure will take it a step further and simply study on their own, getting together in a coffee shop or home to pray. Such a development will be seen as cheaper, less politicized, more casual and flexible. (You don't have to dress up or come on Sunday).These orgs will just rent a facility for larger ritual purposes such as weddings and funerals. Indeed, I suddenly see a whole host of churches and Cathedrals become rent-a-churches, renting out available space to whatever group needs it for the day or week. johnnyd Joined: 29 Jan 2005 Posts: 34 Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 1:38 pm Post subject: Re: The Regreening of America Divine Order wrote:First of all, large tracts of abandoned towns are not going to be resettled, but allowed to be reclaimed by forest and prairie. Just wondering: do you have any indication WHY towns become abandoned (war, disease, natural dsaster)? Reason for asking: 1. About 30 years ago while doing some shopping downtown in a town with 600,000 residents and at the time with thousands of others around me I had my first vision where all of a sudden all people around me, cars travelling the roads, all noise suddenly disappeared. Dead silence, everything else the same. I have no idea how long it lasted when but the bell in a nearby church started to count 11:30 a.m. all was back to normal. Needless to say on my way back home thinking about it made me very sad and almost in tears. I knew one day it will be like that. 2. A few years back, going forward in time, in a "dream" I passed a group of people on a dusty, hilly road. 30, maybe 50, mostly older, don't recall seeing any children. They walked in the middle off the road, depressed and hopless, and all they owned was what they could carry. They aimed for a small town a few miles further up the road that had a power plant. Then they grouped around a man in his fifties for his advice if they should try to settle there or just move on. And the man said to them that it would take at least 100 people to run this town. This town BTW and a bigger one next to it were completely empty of people, no damage to its building structures though. And once again it looked like as if its inhabitants had cleaned up after themselves and left. 3. Around 1-1-2005 there was another. I was walking with my brother through an emptied out town that had housed 4 million! Aquariusmoon Guest Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 5:03 pm Post subject: Johnny D One reason that occurred to me was that it had to do with the cost of gasoline: many of these small towns simply were too far out to support a commuter population anymore. Part of the regreening process was people moving back in where they could at least walk to whatever work was available. Another part was that these were towns that were part of agribusiness and devoid of workers and work, no longer could hold on to residents. Flashes of where: some parts of Arkansas, North Texas, Wyoming,the Plains States (I think will be depopulated except for a few Canadians and possibly Native American who will fill the remaining area). The resulting downscaling of industrial agriculture will force it closer to town-many suburbs will revert to farms-watch for McMansions becoming barns as few could without having several generations live there, continue to afford doing so. I also see solar panels, some several acres wide, also triggering much accelerated plant growth as well around them. Not that these areas will be totally uninhabited, like I said earlier. With self-generated electricity, some water power, and alternative sources of petroleum, there will be homes among the greenery. Also, one way to solve te homeless problem will be suggested once these areas clear out: homesteading. The Old Homestead act will be revived and expanded to cover all that abandoned property.Homes will once again be sold by banks and the Goverment for literally pennies in order to prevent gangs and other undesirables from gaining a foothold in those areas. One other reason I see emptying i that many small towns are already down to mostly elderly. Those who have children or relatives in town will move in with them. Others will just die and leave their property to the state to handle. Aquariusmoon(Really me, but I had registered but couldn't post under that name yet, so I needed a substitute) Guest Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 5:33 pm Post subject: Still more stuff... The return of the River... The waterways become once again a great transportation hub. People float to work, to travel, wherever. Sailors now have more work to do than ever before. And BTW, the green areas will become a tourist attraction along the borders of it. People will come to camp and leave the area when done. Needless to say, the regreening also means that we will have an unprecedented number of birds-but also herds of abandoned livestock because agribusiness would rather save the bullets and the cost of getting rid of them. Another part of the regreening will be a belt that extends from Vermont and New Hampshire all the way to Cleveland. Another forest, though not abandoned. People will get to see what the Green Mountain boys saw in all its splendor. An Erie canal covered in greenery, a Love Canal that's now completely forest. There will be towns and farms, but they will be absorbed in the green belt too. Flashes of governmental reorgs: Some nearby states will practically police these areas because the states that contain them can no longer support the local services. Picture Ohio policing West West Virginia, Utah the Dakotas, Canada helps with Vermont and North New York. The few back to the land people there are simply too few to support needed services anymore. Will Congress recognize these formal or informal arrangements? Stay Tuned. Divine Order Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 4 Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 6:15 pm Post subject: On Another Thread... That talks about the ending of the American Dream, it was mentioned that Bush would leave in an "ark". Could this be a life support system? America has never quite had a situation like this. Wilson in 1918 had a stroke,but due to the help of his wife and a few loyal aides, was able to communicate with Congress some of his wishes. Things were different back then though. Since there was no radio or television, few people saw the President on a regular basis anyway, and still fewer could gauge the degree of physical debilitation. Furthermore, a President could still live largely in seclusion except for executive work and local affairs. These days, the disappearance of the President completely from the camera's view would trigger widespread panic. Furthermore, there would be an interregnum that would also foster a lack of confidence as well. Who declares Cheney Acting President? What if Bush never wakes up and can't? Does Laura pull the plug or just run out the clock? Who decides this? Do people hedge their bets on things wondering if they would be upheld later? What if there's a crisis and even Cheney isn't capable? Then what? newgirl Joined: 09 Jan 2005 Posts: 1328 Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 6:22 pm Post subject: Doesnt the Senate Majority leader take over? _________________ "Realize the power in your hand with the Rosary, for in your hands you hold the power of God. ...It was with a Mother's loving heart that I chose to give you these pearls of Heaven that you reject. " Our Holy MotherBack to top Divine Order Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 4 Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 6:22 pm Post subject: In such a scenario.. People, feeling that there's no way to get permission anyway, and feeling that the Executive Branch is otherwise occupied, begin making their own deals and decisions. Others start making their own moves regarding oil and diplomacy, feeling comfident that the United States would be strongly hamstrung. And the effect on the stock market would be incalculable in terms of what confidence people would have in the economy. With no central direction and govermental uncertainty, many governments will hedge their bets financially or travel in a holding pattern until a clear leader emerges. Divine Order Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 4 Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 6:28 pm Post subject: The Speaker of the House is Third in Line newgirl wrote:Doesnt the Senate Majority leader take over? But in the scenario I described, it's not so simple. The 25th Amendment talks about "An Acting President" that is declared upon incapacity to serve. But who declares that incapacity, and are their opinions binding? And if there's a dispute? In any case, it becomes a Regency where decisions are made, but there is the aura of uncertainty because the President could repudiate those decisions upon recovery. And who decides the recovery? Such uncertainty combined with Peak Oil could trigger some of the events that I just mentioned as people either: hunker down to endure, call in their chips, or make hay while the sun shines. |
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NEOBuckeye (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-13-05 08:17 PM Response to Reply #13 |
14. I think everything you have posted above is likely to happen on some level |
...Or another. Interesting discussion, especially the first part about the "greening" of America. There already seems to be some science that may back up that view...
-- Forests Could Be Key to Curbing Global Warming OSLO (Reuters) - Effective control of forest fires may prove crucial in the fight against global warming since blazes from Alaska to Indonesia spew out vast amounts of heat-trapping gases, Canadian foresters said on Thursday. "Forests are a wild card in the debate" about rising world temperatures, said Brian Stocks, a forest fire expert with the government-run Canadian Forest Service. ---snip--- Trees absorb carbon dioxide as they grow and release it when they burn or rot. Carbon dioxide is also emitted by burning fossil fuels in cars, power plants and factories, and is widely blamed for blanketing the planet and nudging up temperatures. "Individuals should do everything possible to reduce energy use," Barry Waito, president of the Canadian Forestry Association, said in a statement. But he also urged greater responsibility for managing forests. "Forests will play a central role in the extent of (climate) change future generations face," he said. http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/nm/20050303/sc_nm/environment_forests_dc -- Some other articles I've read say that even resurgent forests and curbed use of fossil fuels will not stop Global Warming entirely, however. It seems that a certain amount of unavoidable change may already be built into the global feedback system. If it doesn't run away into a "Day After Tomorrow" or even worse, a "Venus" effect, it does seem that a greener world will be a strong possibility. As for governance and regional/local issues, I think the subjects addressed in your posts above tie in well with some of the things I talked about in my posts below. In a nutshell, some cities and regions are probably going to fare much better than others. Those that do not or can not stabilize themselves for lack of adequate basic resources, are probably going to end up as the "ghost towns" as mentioned above. -- http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=266&topic_id=401&mesg_id=408 NEOBuckeye Donating member (1000+ posts) Sun Mar-13-05 10:32 PM Response to Reply #2 4. I think problems and solutions will ultimately come down to states/regions State and Local leaders are already starting to realize that they can't count on the Federal Government to help them out of a bind. If anything, the Federal Government has become a hinderance to implementing real solutions. Witness Montana's Governor, a Republican, who is asking for his state's National Guard troops to be returned home to help fight fires this summer. I've heard that the Governors of Washington, Oregon and Idaho have asked for their troops back as well, for similar concerns and reasons. A lot of good fighting wars on the other side of the world does for you, when your state is burning up in forest fires, or potentially about to be smashed by earthquakes and tsunamis. In Akron-Summit County, Ohio, where I live, both the Mayor of Akron and the Summit County Executive have stated that they will do whatever is necessary to keep this region afloat, even as the Federal Government and the GOP-Dominated Ohio State Government cut back on funding for Local and County governments. There's also some efforts underway right now, however slowly they may be inching forward, to bring the entire Northeastern Ohio region together into some sort of Regional Government. Similar discussions in the Midwest and Northeast are taking place in Buffalo and Cincinnati. I think these efforts will see a major boost and bear fruit in the next few years, as peak oil and the energy crisis become ever more painfully obvious. Sen. McCain has talked about the U.S. lack of Naval presence in the Pacific. This is a clear sign of the Federal Government's overreaching, and the Bush Regime is very largely to blame for it. A National Government that can't even afford to police its' own coastlines is fast in danger of becoming irrelevant, if it doesn't first collapse from its' own mismanagement into bankruptcy. Where the National Federal Government fails, look for State, Regional and Local governments and cooperative/trade agreements to step in. IMHO this is a highly probable outcome in places like the Pacific Northwest (i.e. Cascadia), the Upper Midwest/Great Lakes states, as well as the New England states, mostly because of access to fresh water and the very basic natural resources necessary for survival, even when and where alternative energy should fail. Likewise, I think the Southern and and Southwestern states/regions are going to have the most painful and catastrophic process of readjustment. The Southwest is experiencing "Peak Water" right now with maxed-out water tables thanks to suburbs sprawling out into the desert in all directions. Let's also not overlook the fact that these areas have little arable land to grow food, which will be important as shipping/supply lines break down. Top that off with regularly 100+F temperatures, and the coming power shortages, and Cities like Phoenix and Las Vegas are going to become very uncomfortable, very, very soon. "Water Wars" here are a likely possibility. I mentioned the South for a much different reason: Flourishing forms of extremist Christianity, resurgent Racism (as if it ever went away), and the ages old, unhealed wounds from their Civil War defeat. The Energy Crisis is going to bring all these things back to the surface and out into the open again in a very dire way, as people think "Doomsday" and "Rapture Time". This is the region most likely to see ideologues rise into positions of power and authority, as well as conflicts between churches, towns and even states based upon differing views of fundamentalist Christianity. Eventually, there may be a re-emergence of the old Confederacy, though ironically, it probably won't happen until the original grievances have been mostly resolved. -- http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1307217&mesg_id=1307767&page= NEOBuckeye Donating member (1000+ posts) Sun Mar-13-05 05:49 AM Response to Reply #23 25. Peak Water is very real -- Water Tables falling rapidly in Southwest US Edited on Sun Mar-13-05 05:59 AM by NEOBuckeye One thing that isn't often pointed out in the Peak Oil discussions is that catastrophe isn't going to cut equally across the board. There are some areas are going to naturally fare better than others. And some will fare far worse than others. A lot of it is going to come down to access to the very basic resources necessary to sustain life, most namely WATER, but also arable land -- enough of it to grow crops and food for the local population. And even then, you will likely experience some "thinning" of the population through poor nutrition (not enough food to go around) and disease until a balance is reached. Consider Phoenix, Tucson, Las Vegas and Reno. All of them are surging boomtowns, and are dramatically expanding, receiving hundreds and even thousands of new people each month, even now, in the current-though-very-troubled petroleum-driven economy. When the Oil/Energy Crisis hits, however, these cities, like others throughout the US, will be utterly devestated by insanely high energy costs. But not only that, because they are situated in the DESERT, they will not be able to in any meaningful way convert to agrarian/self-sufficient models. People forget that The West is an arid DESERT, not the grassy, more temperate Great Plains. And besides, where will they draw their water? The water tables in much of desert region of the Western US have been ridiculously overtaxed by growth and new development. With very limited rains or other sources of fresh water, "Peak Water" is already quite imminent in this region. Many people just haven't realized it yet, as they continue to move out into the desert to construct their oversized McMansions. http://www.heatisonline.org/contentserver/objecthandlers/index.cfm?id=4147&method=full My prediction is that the Southwest -- Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico and Texas to a significant degree, will probably fare the worst in the Energy Crisis, even if they do manage to rig up Solar Electric. Transportation -- getting people and goods from place to place in these sprawling cities and spread-out regions -- is going to be a challenge on par with obtaining water and growing food. Toss in the infamous heat, and you have areas in which only the hardiest of the hardy will survive. The West is destined to become the most hostile region of the North American continent. If I lived there now, I think I'd be making some serious plans to get outta there, pronto, and go someplace green, like Cascadia. Portland/Washington/Northern California will by no means be a paradise either, but they do seem to have plenty of fresh water and a climate that will support local food production. I'd say the same for the Upper Midwest/Great Lakes and New England regions, though winter will probably be their biggest challenge. I'd generally try and stay away from the "Bible Belt" of The South, given that Right Wing Fundamentalist Christianity will probably have a great deal of people there expecting the Rapture. There's no telling how these people will react when the misery hits with a vengeance, and they aren't immediately zipped up into Heaven. -- At any rate, it seems that we will shortly begin to receive our "answers" to many of these issues. I am thinking, as some have suggested, that Peak Oil actually hit back in 2001, and that we have just been riding the "plateau" of production for the past few years. We wouldn't be feeling the pinch in production so badly even now, if it weren't for the modernization of China and India. What I'm thinking is that there will probably be an economic crash of some sort this year, and it's probably only a matter of months or weeks away. What follows is some pretty nasty political upheaval that will probably put the Bush Regime and the GOP-dominated Congress under a tremendous amount of pressure and scrutiny by an American public too angry to be charmed into a stupor by Faux News anymore. I don't know how it will all play out, but I hardly think that we'll be going to Iran. The cracks in the "great machine" are imminent, however, and the conditions are ripe for a breakdown in the old structure. Indeed, we can see many of these things being foreshadowed now. I think much of this will become more readily obvious once Pluto moves beyond Sagittarius into Capricorn in 2008. |
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Nancy Waterman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-17-05 11:13 PM Response to Reply #11 |
18. NEO - that is a great quote from Marjorie Orr |
It will indeed be a very wild ride for those years. She describes it quite well. I can barely stand the thought of Bush for 4 more years. I can't begin to think of more.
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Eloriel (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-13-05 09:18 PM Response to Original message |
15. Here's another one that piqued my attention |
Oil demand outweighs supply ("we've got a problem" - AG Edwards)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3232338&mesg_id=3232338 Don't forget too that the U.S. Sag Rising chart has Pluto in 2nd house in Capricorn. THe U.S. will be experiencing it's first ever PLUTO RETURN in the not too distant future. And THEN, there's THIS, for which I really don't have any words: Aug. 13, 2010 http://www.gaiamind.org/aug13-2010.html |
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greenman3610 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-16-05 07:18 PM Response to Reply #15 |
16. that's the one I'm talking about. |
Edited on Wed Mar-16-05 07:19 PM by greenman3610
I'd like to see a discussion of that configuration
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fedsron2us (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-17-05 07:08 PM Response to Reply #16 |
17. Well it appears to be a Friday 13th for a start |
Edited on Thu Mar-17-05 07:11 PM by fedsron2us
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Pallas180 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Mar-18-05 01:46 AM Response to Original message |
19. Dimbot's first hint at peak oil: |
"President George Bush said that exploiting oil in the Alaskan wilderness was good for security and the national economy. "This is a way to get some additional reserves here at home on the books. In terms of world supply ... demand is outracing supply, and supplies are getting tight. This project will make America less dependent on foreign sources of energy, eventually by up to a million barrels of oil a day."
"demand is outracing supply" I would really like it if someone in the audience would stand up and say, yes its becomig a scarce resource - so we should nationalize it. and watch his head engorge and explode...heh heh heh |
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mhr (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Mar-18-05 02:06 AM Response to Original message |
20. Russia Plans War To Defend Syria And Iran? |
Posted By Il_Bagattel
3-17-5 This excerpt appeared in last night's (3-14) Le Metropole Cafe daily report: Snip ...... The Cafe and GATA (Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee) have developed quite the information network around the world. On that note I am passing on what I am hearing from a solid source. None of this can go in the verified camp, so it all must be treated as RUMOR until we receive proper verification: * Russia is preparing for possible war and its actions on the dollar indicate just that; they are going to back Syria, Iran. China will back Iran. * Russia has made deals on oil and gas projects and opened its minerals to trading. This should show soon in response to Chinese raw materials buying. * Russia has also abandoned efforts to tie the ruble's movement closely to the dollar and switched to shadowing both the euro and the US currency. This is the first step to war. Other countries operating de facto dollar pegs will follow suit. With 81 per cent of Russia's oil exports currently sold to Europe, the move means that Russia will eventually denominate its oil in euros. * Remember Russia is the world's second-largest oil exporter, behind Saudi Arabia. Snip ...... http://www.rense.com/general63/russiaplanswartodefend.htm |
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