There's something funny going on with Michael Jackson

And I don't mean what you think I mean.

He doesn't look good; I think he is in great danger, healthwise; I think he must be very careful over the next few days or he could die.

of it being self induced?

I'm afraid for his mental state. I'm an empath and I feel he is at the brink. I think his handlers are watching him closely.

He certainly won't survive imprisonment, if he survives this trial.

DemEx

the month.

and no, he won't survive prison. The whole thing is a sad sorry mess.

Meanwhile, even the reporters are commenting on how ill he looks, so you are not alone in thinking this.

attempt at extortion by some money-hungry fools? Has there been any kind of a frame-up? Or, is he just simply GUILTY?

I don't trust ANYTHING the media says about this: they smell blood in the water, and they're revelling in it. That is the OTHER sick part of this whole thing. All the innuendo that has made it into the "collective conscious" -- talking points that all but state it as a foregone conclusion that he's guilty, and the pundits hammering it home, day after day, hour after hour. I've never seen such a feeding frenzie!

And it's precisely BECAUSE I don't trust ANYTHING the media says, I can't help but be mega-skeptical about his guilt!

The other thing that makes me skeptical, is that I watched the district attorney and the cops that are trying so hard to prove his guilt. They looked like total racist, anti-hollywood-type slimebags to me (just intuitively), and so the people that are after him (right-wing media and these right-wing-seeming slimebag officials), don't get my initial vote of confidence. The officials appeared really JEALOUS of Jackson.

Now, truly Michael Jackson has "issues", and lots of them. But, hell, so do lots of people -- it's just that the majority of messed-up people don't have so much money and fame, so the public doesn't pay attention to them, unless they do something spectacular.

I think it's entirely conceivable, that it could be true, that he has had some sort of sexual perversion over these kids. But, since he was already charged, publicly, with the same problem years ago, it just doesn't make sense that he would do anything to allow himself to be held out for the same thing AGAIN!

What if he really does just have a heart as big as Texas, and what if he was really just trying to help these kids who had cancer to rediscover their childhood dreams, and help them to heal the emotional wounds that could have caused the cancer? Jackson has an army of friends who think the world of him, who think this is the case, and think he's a sweet, gentle kid that has been severely wounded, emotionally, himself, and is using his wealth to help (other) kids.

If it's true that he wouldn't hurt a flea, and that he's just extremely sensitive and loves kids, then all of the Jackson-bashing could very well kill him.

I really wish we could have some way of knowing!

:kick:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x2808927

Read post #23. Apparently the family tried to shake down Jay Leno and other celebs in the past.

Most people, if they were accused of something they didn't do, would rationally not put themselves in that situation again. But MJ isn't rational and he doesn't seem to have anyone around him to shake him and say, "Don't do this again or it will definitely bite you in the butt the next time!"

I will admit I was a fan of the Jackson 5 as a little girl and I don't know what to think either.

And forgive me for what may seem a little arrogant, but I've studied this and related issues quite a bit. I'm not an expert, I don't work in the field, but it's one of the subjects about which I know much, much more than the average lay person.

As a rule, children don't lie. They also don't (can't!) make up stuff for which they have no frame of reference.

Also as a rule, mature and healthy adults don't believe things like one of Jackson's famous quotes: "sharing your bed with a child is one of the most loving things you can do." No, I'm sorry, healthy (non-pediophile) adult men don't willingly and eagerly do that. (I think it's incredibly important for society to take a really long, hard look at ANY adult male who is overly interested in and focused on children. We've seen many, many pedophiles in the ranks of scout leaders, coaches, youth ministers, etc. We have to figure out a way to sort the wheat from the chaff. How healthy is their "interest" in children?)

I haven't been following this case all that closely, but I too have heard some remarks to the effect that this family might be not on the up-and-up. HOWEVER, that of COURSE is what the defense wants the jury and the public to believe. Their job (and a sick one it is, IMO) is to try to discredit the accuser and any witnesses by any means possible.

AND, some of the testimony I heard about yesterday in passing was NOT at all helpful for Jackson -- how he pushed wine ("Jesus juice") and vodka on the accuser or other kids, how he had a bell that would alert him when anyone was approaching his bedroom from the hallway outside, showing them pornography, etc.

99% of the time when someone is accused of either child molestation, that person is guilty. Again, children just don't make that stuff up and can't describe what they don't have a frame of reference for. (Could YOU have described various sexual activities when you were a kid? Of course not -- not until you are personally exposed to it in some way.)

And I make allowance for the fact he could be guilty and they are also doing a "shakedown" I don't beleive the two are mutually exclusive. What is interesting is the family hasn't filed a civil suit . That is the only way they would make money. I wouldn't be surprised if they are getting some bucks from media sources. And Micheal isn't a really good financial target right now. He is almost broke and too many other creditors are lined up!

sleep in the same bed with a child they weren't a parent to. Children aren't that easy to sleep with and most likely the adult would have a very poor night of sleep when that happens.

So when MJ openly admitted doing this my BS antennae went up.

The few times he slept in my bed were memorable for getting a sudden, powerful knee in the back or an elbow in the ribs. It wasn't something I regretted but I'd never be enthusiastic about it either and I wouldn't even consider climbing into bed with someone else's child. No way.

I really believe the abuse MJ suffered as a child messed him up permanently. One look at his face tells you the man has significant self-esteem and self-image issues. Aditionally and tragically, abuse victims often have difficulty relating to or trusting peers and find intimacy with a peer almost impossible. You'd think after the first molestation accusation he would have immediately stopped putting himself in the position for it to happen again. Also, you can read to kids until they fall asleep and then go to your own bed, which is what most parents do.

If he is guilty and the jury comes back with a guilty verdict, I don't believe he'd survive even a couple of days in prison.

It would look bad if the prison system put him with the main prison population and they killed him, especially because he is high profile prisoner, and the media would be watching. If they do this then he's pretty much doomed to a life in solitary confinement, which is a pretty good punishment anyway.

...first is that MJ was so messed up as a kid and secondly that because of his "fame, celebrity & money" he is able to continue the "sickness" and thirdly, also because of this "celebrity status" he has been able to get away with it for as long as he has.

I agree...what is wrong with this picture?? A grown man having young boys come to his home and for a "sleep-over" ? Hello? Think about this people....if this were anyone but Michael J, can you imagine what would have happened by now?? I think this poor soul has been so twisted that he truly believes he is doing no harm and I find that exceedingly sad. It is obvious that MJ is a very sensitive and talented person but also very messed up.

Only someone with a great deal of self loathing or at least no self esteem would have the need to completely surgically alter his looks. This is a very tortured soul...but still, no reason to pass it on to others. Children need protecting and just because he's famous doesn't excuse him harming kids....the good he does (or tries to do) to help kids terminally ill, does not IMHO begin to balance things out.

I have not been following this trial at all...it is a circus and makes me sick to see what this society has come to...like vultures waiting to feed on the next story. Disgusting....

I wish they could send him somewhere to get help or at the least keep him away from children. I really don't think MJ can survive in the "real" world, let alone prison. Its just sad all the way around that a soul with so much potential was hurt & twisted so early on in his life....very sad.


I wish he can get some serious help .....I feel bad for him and especially for traumatized kids.....what a shame this wasn't stopped a lot sooner for everyones' sakes.

I think this poor soul has been so twisted that he truly believes he is doing no harm

That's what people do -- rationalize the situation, just like that quote I cited. Jackson and others like him (assuming he's guilty, as I most certainly do), HAVE to tell themselves some story so that what SOCIETY tells us is wrong, abnormal and sick is something they can live with after all. Society must be wrong about this, somehow.

I remember a long time ago, when Phil Donahue was still on (LOL, the FIRST time, not the MSNBC fiasco). He had a show on the subject and he got a male caller who was SO chilling. Among other things, he said, "Children are so seductive," and they know they are, and they use that, yadayada. WRONG-O! It takes a PEDIPHILE or other sick-o to find children sexually "seductive." Others may find them adorable, cute, darling, huggable, precious, whatever, but NOT sexually attractive or, heaven forfend, sexually "seductive." The very thought makes me want to throw up.

then I read two articles in Vanity Fair that completely changed my mind. (And VF has done a pretty decent job of reporting the truth without any sugar-coating.) If you haven't read them, you should check them out.

I personally think MJ is a pedophile and pedophiles don't stop--even after they've been caught.

And if he really has that big of a heart and just has to help children, he should help finance hospital wards, or open a public Neverland and stop sleeping with young boys. :)

Tend to think he has a problem. That being said, I think Snedden has been gunning for him. Furthermore I think the family of the boy is looking to shake him down. The lawyer they went to is the same one who got the other boy $20 + million. I fully anticipate that once this trial is over, there will be a civil case brought against MJ by the boy and his family. The family has tried to get a lot of money from celebs because of the boy's illness and I fully expect them to "go for the gold".

I don't think he's an evil predator, or even realizes that the (supposed) behavior is wrong by society's standards.

I think he had a totally abnormal childhood and adolescence at the mercy of such a dysfunctional family unit that he simply stopped developing emotionally at some point as a coping mechanism.

Were I the judge, I'd order long term and very comprehensive therapy/counseling, and that he just not be allowed to be with youngsters until he gets a grasp on what it means to be a 'grown up'.

But that's JMHO ~

People who are addicts or otherwise mentally ill will often keep doing the same thing over and over, even if it lands them in jail, or in court or whatever.

(edited to fix typo)

their child anywhere NEAR Michael Jackson, especially after his last "experience". Did she SET UP her own children? There's been enough press about HER past that make me wonder if this case is a combination of a set-up AND he's guilty.
It could be both.
As a parent, you have to be careful who you let your children associate with, and I have serious doubts about the Mother of this boy; she wouldn't be the first parent to sell their child to a pervert.

These issues are generational; Michael's sister La Toya insisted that their father sexually and physically abused all of them, including Michael, and Michael's behaviour seems to bear this out. If this was the way Michael was taught that this is how a grown-up "shows his love for his child", which is what many child molesters tell their victims, then he's repeating his father's actions. IF La Toya was telling the truth.

and the one thing that stood out was something her dad did. When they were all living at home Joe (dad) would allow people (probably kids) into Michael's bedroom while he was sleeping to get a look at the famous Michael Jackson. That's pretty sick right there, plus objectifying and dehumanizing of MJ, plus "using" him to puff up dad's own esteem. It was pimping of a sort, IMO.

Now, Joe was always the one who creeped me out.

Oh, and re Thriller, mentioned upthread. Good grief, what more "evidence" do we need that the boy, or man-boy, is unbalanced and sick than that video with all the crotch-work. Not cool, SICK. (And what kind of sick society doesn't recognize and sanction that from the get-go?)

and that her abusive husband "forced" her to write what she did. She recently stated how happy she is to be back with her family who are the "most wonderful people in the world" and he father "never abused her or anyone". Also Micheal, who she originally said ,did abuse children, would "never" do any such thing. I think she is either scared or in denial. She sounds like a "classic" abuse victim to me!

and many who come forward later recant their accusations, saying they deserved it, or it didn't happen. The abuser usually gets to them and threatens them or loved ones, I've seen this many times. Sounds like La Toya is doing what they did, a family doesn't go from being as dysfunctional as this one to being "the most wonderful family in the world". Like other posters, I look at the father, and...I've seen the look in his eyes before...he's the monster that created the monster his son has become.

since he was a kid in the J5 & I was too young to know what "vibes" were. I never liked him or J5. Then in the 80's when Thriller came out, I got even weirder vibes off of him & they've only gotten worse. I think the guy has definitely gone off the deep end (probably a combination of his family upbringing which allegedly included physical abuse & the fact that no one apparently says "no" to him on anything; for comparison, look no further than Donny Osmond who is about the same age as MJ, from a very religious family, had a similar show biz career as a child, but hasn't undergone tons of plastic surgery or made bizarre comments about sleeping with children).

If he's guilty of this, throw the book at him. I've got no sympathy for child molesters. But at some level, I do find it quite sad that an attractive, talented, young black man hated himself so much that he had to mutilate his face & alter his skin color to become the walking skeleton he is today.

dg

And didn't get treated until he was in his mid to late 30s. I think the biggest difference is that MJ was probably molested as a child (as per LaToya's book), Donny was not. DO had to endure a control freak father too (although not as bad as Joe Jackson, and Mr. Osmond didn't have sex with his son's fans). Donny also got lucky in that he got married to a good woman very young. She had a decent home life and that rubbed off on him to a degree.

So sad what these people do to their kids.

I have thought for a long time that he'll probably end up a suicide.

A part of me can almost feel sorry for him. He has had amazing success, has more money than God, but he's a miserable shell of a human.

a Pepsi commercial. From then on....he became more and more odd by the day, month and year.

Plastic surgeons who keep changing his face should be jailed. His nose has collapsed....and he looks anything but normal.

A grown man does not sleep with other people's children. He may believe what he is doing is love in his mind...in the law it's molestation. I know females who equate Love only with sex because because they were molested. Maybe he is acting out his own childhood in bed too...as well as in wonderland.

Scroll down to (*Anyway. . .) if you just want some details about what I truly feel could be the root of MJ's derangement.

I have given up entirely on the mainstream media since January 7th. Events that transpired around then almost pushed me over the edge until I took 12 steps backwards and could finally see it all as just the truly ba-a-ad theatre it is.

But even prior to then, anytime they brought up any of the salacious sensational trials (Peterson, Kobe, Jacko, etc), I'd either change channels or turn off the tube entirely. That's just because, though I do have compassion for victims of all crimes, it's really none of anyone else's business aside from those whose lives are directly effected. Besides there are far greater crimes (34 and counting) against all of us perpetrated by this misadministration that garner nary a speck of scrutiny. And then we wonder why this great land of the lively discussion is no more. Ughhhhh. I'd much prefer to watch "Survivor Falluja."

*Anyway I lived in LA during the 80's and made an acquaintance of someone who was very close to the Jackson family. According to this person, Michael Jackson was given massive doses of progesterone and estrogen during puberty to prevent his voice from changing since his falsetto was the family's primary cash cow.. It was allegedly, like a pharmaceutical version of the types of castrations that were reputedly once performed on members of Vienna Boys Choir. That is simply most likely the root of his extreme derangement and it was a crime perpetrated upon him by his family. It quite plausibly the source of his obsessive desire for young boys in search what was lost in terms of his aborted maturation.

That is really more than I ever cared to know about Michael Jackson. If true, it's really quite tragic and speaks volumes.

I haven't looked at his chart in eons but I know he was born on the first full moon in Virgo of '58 and he has the sun conjunct Pluto so he has a transiting Uranus conjunct the natal Moon opposing his Virgo Sun and Pluto. I'll check as to whether I've the data somewhere and post it when I get a chance.

and actually knew people who were in the entertainment industry, I found out that a lot of the stories about celebrities from people who knew about them "intimately" weren't always that reliable altough they apparently were right on the button about Rock Hudson being gay.

Now I'm not saying that this couldn't be true, but sometimes when stories are this outrageous, one has to question the source. I mean someone recently tried to pass a story on to me about a celebrity that I knew rather well enough to consider a good friend, which wasn't true. When I asked this person if they knew the celebrity, it turned out that it was a friend of someone who knew their stylist.

And I was there long enough to be well aware of the copious amount of spurious rumors that proliferate out there. But this was from a well known Afro American performer who made gobs of dough in the '80's and was extremely close to the family. I can surprisingly note the distinction between rumor and something that has an element of truth to it. This did not come from a stylist I assure you.

And FYI. . .I worked with Rock Hudson's publicist shortly after that whole travesty was exposed. Damage control was the theme. These are very different times.

This theory just explained a lot to me. Having devoted several decades to counseling simpler folks, if it doesn't ring true to you then fine. Really haven't thought of it much since I first heard but seemed to ring true at the time. Really don't care at all. Just with all this attention thought it was worthy of some consideration. That is all. There are far more important issues now anyway.

Peace

but I think pumping hormones into a child seems a little bizarre to me since it isn't that hard for a man to do a falsetto if he wants to. I mean comedians do it all the time when they are impersonating women.

Also, when Jackson does interviews he seems to speak in a normal voice, to me anyway. It may be a little on the high side, but not more so than many other men, who don't speak in basso notes. I guess the sceptic in me kicks in when bizarro raises it's head and without proof, this is bizarre.

Now if someone could come up with receipts for the purchases of these hormones, which would have to have been purchased without prescription at a rural feed store, or the doctor who would have had to prescribe them, then I would say ahaaa, but not until then.

I tried to phrase the initial posting with a lot of "allegedly's and if true's."

There would be no receipts from the early '70's anyway. If it did occur, it was unquestionably through the black market. 'Cause, it was totally illegal, completely unethical, and somewhat thoughtlessly desparate.

It just struck me quite strongly when I heard the rumor, as I fundamentally believe that there is nothing that gets one higher or lower than hormones. . organically induced or otherwise.

I know older folks who were given speed as a diet pill during puberty and it has had a life long effect on their metabolisms. Know one that was given a growth suppresent during puberty and was never able to conceive a child. Other younger nephews, second cousins, and friend's kids were on Ritalin and could only withdraw by becoming total potheads later. I just think puberty is a volatile time in terms of one's maturation and can have life long repercussions.

These may possibly just be some, most heinous and most unfortunate.

unless it's a life or death matter. A lot of problems can be solved with a change in diet, sometimes vitamins, and no need of anything chemical. I know those diet pills you speak of. Many a fat roomate of mine were on them and after several weeks they were literally bouncing off the walls because of the high. Although, I have to admit that the cleaning sprees they went on were a plus.

voice from changing a long time ago. I believe it's true--your hearing the same thing from a personal source only backs up what I read.

As for Jackson himself, I really don't want to believe he is guilty--BUT . . . He is a grown man. Whatever abuses he suffered as a child should have been reconciled a long time ago. He had a chance to straighten up after the first accusations were publicized. IF he continued to do the same things after almost bankrupting himself as a result of the first charges, he deserves to be brought to justice.

What a sad ending for him. The thought of him in prison is frightening. I, too, sense that this is the end of his career and his life (his life as we know it or his actual life).

And would conribute to the "story" of why this man is so totally messed up. Doesn't excuse him in any way

He is being confronted by his accuser in public. The world has now heard the disgusting story. Jackson's decompensation is the reaction you would expect of a guilty person: regression, idiosyncratic behavior, exhibitionism, and all done in a disorganized fashion. He wore PJ's; he's accused of molesting the boy in the bed room...get it.

This guy has asked to be locked up so many ways and so many times, it's just pathetic that it hasn't happened.

He's headed for Atascadero! and not a minute too soon.