Saturn and Hillary (with a dash of Uranus)

Saturn, like all planets, works in a cycle of potential defeat and hoped-for success. If one learns the lessons of Saturn, achievement is right around the corner. If one is faced with the delays and frustrations Saturn can bring and attempts short-cuts or tricks to get ahead in lieu of hard work and acceptance of one's temporarily diminished state (Saturn loves puncturing our Ego Balloons and squeezing all the air out), Saturn will slap you upside the head with a healthy dose of humiliating failure. We've all had it in our lives, I trust, and we all have the chance to balance that defeat with a strong sense of personal success. It all has to do with the Cycle of Saturn.

For example, in 1994, Saturn traveled over Hillary's Pisces IC and through her 4th House. During that time, she had the very public, humiliating failure of her Health Care plan which without question affected her Home and Family (very 4th House) as the Dems lost in the Midterms and the White House and it's goals found themselves under attack.

So, here we sit 14 years later and Saturn is now meeting for the final time her MC in late-June/early-July traveling directly opposite the area he was (generally 1 Pisces to 11 Pisces) during her 1994 failure. And Saturn certainly without doubt has tested her during this campaign. He offered her Front Runner Status as he crossed her Midheaven in October and then rudely swiped it away when he backed up and passed over it via retrograde in February and March. But as she learned the Saturn lesson of doing more with less -- less money, less support, etc -- and really, really earning with good old-fashioned hard work what she wanted, he rewarded her with wins in the March 4th Primaries (as he sat 10 minutes past exact the day of the Primary).

As Saturn meets the area from 1 to 11 Virgo over the next several months, astrology explains this "full circle", if you will (via Stephen Arroyo and Bernadette Brady, among others), of Saturn as a time of reward for that period of failure 14 years (or 180 degrees) earlier.

I believe Saturn turning direct and meeting her MC again won't coincide with her dropping out, as some may have said. And the fact that Saturn is traveling through 8 and 11 Virgo during the time of the Convention this year directly 180 degrees opposite the spot he was when Congress officially, quite publicly and with humiliating fanfare killed her Health Care Plan in 1994 should give one pause.

In fact, if one looks at this Saturn cycle in relation to the cycle of the Moon, it would make sense that Saturn would reward during it's "Full Cycle" eg. when it moves opposite the point when the native had their full-on Saturn failure.

Now, as we head to the Convention in late-August, we amazingly find Saturn sitting directly opposite that 11 Pisces point of personal defeat.

Before that time, though, we have both candidate's dealing with the onslaught of transiting Uranus in potentially different ways due not only to how their charts are laid out and how they personally seem to deal with crisis or unexpected change, but also with the nature of the transit Uranus is making with each chart.

I have an earlier thread about this one can reference for a more complete look, but to briefly recap:

Barack is dealing with a challenge (in the form of an opposition) from Uranus to his goal-driven, energetic, relentless, need-to-control Virgo Mars -- planets in Virgo don't appreciate surprises which throw them from their orderly, perfectly laid-out Game Plan -- in the very public 11th House.

Hillary, with Uranus conjunct her 4th House Pisces Moon, will find her emotions and how she deals with or handles them changing in unexpected, surprising ways (this transit sets off a natal Moon-Saturn quincunx eg. the lifelong battle between her strong Pisces emotion and her public 9th House Leo Saturn sense of appearing strong and responsible). As the 4th House, can also indicate one's parent (and Mother, in the case of the Moon itself) or the family structure, she may also be faced with sudden changes dealing with her Mother which may cause unexpected emotion or affect her home life (as her Mother lives in DC with her and Bill).

The reason I bring up Uranus in relation to Saturn's passage over Hillary's MC and through that 1 to 11 Virgo territory is that the beginning of his final meeting with her Midheaven coincides with that time period when Uranus will be working Barack's Mars (by opposition) and, by tense quincunx, Barack's Progressed Mercury (conjunct Progressed Mars in his 12th House) in a potentially ham-handed way.

But let's chat about Uranus and Mars in aspect. It's helpful to remember that Mars, in general, is a planet (as the ruler of Aries) which has a relentless, goal-driven, often glory-driven energy. He really, really wants what he wants and he wants it now, thank you. Furthermore, he's going to go for it like gangbusters and, at the end of it all, would really, really, really like people to throw him a parade and marvel at how wonderful he is for having achieved what he has. Nothing wrong with that, of course, if you're Mars. But that's really not how Uranus works.

Uranus has a strong energy, no doubt about it. Strong enough to go toe-to-toe with blustery Mars, but Uranus is anything but relentless. He's more like a bolt of lightning which lights up everything around you for one second and one second only. Not enough to really see your surroundings in detail (detail enough to make plans, anyway), but just enough to become aware that quite suddenly the ground you're standing on is radically different than you thought it was. And, because of this, one has to dig deep and adjust to this new landscape ... and quick.

Quite honestly, Uranus (as the ruler of Aquarius) is interested more in the Big Picture, your Soul and it's Path and could really care less about your big plans and your glory-driven goals. His interest is in Spiritual Clarity and he's not above throwing you AND your goals out the window if it'll help you move forward on your Spiritual Path. Seeing how Uranus will aspect one's planets (whether "easy" or "hard") via transit as well as the Houses involved will give some clue as to what kind of experience Uranus may bring.

So, with Saturn meeting Hillary's MC for the final time before he continues his journey through Virgo and Uranus in tough aspect to both Barack's Mars and Progressed Mercury/Mars conjunction, this Summer is sure to hold several more surprises.

I've been checking to see if you'd posted. :hi:

I'm heading out the door but will be back to comment tonight!

I look forward to hearing from you. We may just end up having a party of two! LOL

Would you be willing to share how you acquired the skills to get to this level of expertise? Are you self-taught? If so, how long have you been studying on your own?

Thanks! :)

and thank you for the sweet compliment, by the way.

Not only do I have a family background in the more esoteric arts stretching way, way back (my grandmother is a famously accurate psychic in Los Angeles and my mother strongly supported my earlier talents with tarot, palm reading, clairaudience and clairsentience), I've read books and articles on astrology, studied charts, haunted astrology blogs, started reading for those close to me (and found I was fairly accurate) and I double-check myself endlessly. Obsessively.

If I see something that looks "good", I'll hunt for something else that will either support it or derail it. And if I find that "something", I'll look for something else to support THAT. And then something else. I always search for the prevailing "mood" of the chart and then do my honest best to weigh what will or won't play out based on what's there. If I believe something will manifest a certain way, I go out of my way to prove myself wrong. If I can't do that, then I'll share my observations.

With the candidates, it's a great opportunity to actively witness not only how they live their charts (as they're a daily presence in our lives via the news), but also how they react to whatever transits or progressions are in effect. Based on that -- and, granted, we don't see everything that happens in their lives or campaigns --, one can get a strong general sense of how one will handle an upcoming transit.

One thing I've learned, though, is that if you have to dig deep, deep into the chart for the answer you're looking for -- if you are, in fact, looking for an "answer" -- you're probably not going to find it. Usually big events or life changes will be right THERE in the transits or progressions just screaming for attention.

I feel that you have real integrity, and I appreciate the painstaking effort that you put into these threads.

I hope to someday have things really click for me in reference to truly understanding astrology, but, until then, I'll just stand back in awe in appreciation of your work and allow it to inspire me to continue to plug along at my own efforts to master this amazingly complicated art/science. I have no illusions that I'll ever be as good as you, but your work shows me what's possible, and I thank you for the inspiration.

:hug:

and the rest will come. Seriously. The simpler the better. And don't be afraid of making mistakes. The bigger the better as those are the ones that teach you where you made your initial wrong turn and hopefully you can catch it in the future.

But beware: astrology is addictive. :evilgrin:

:evilgrin:

(It even kept me awake last night -- astrological things kept popping into my head.)

I'm sorry that I hijacked your thread. :(

I'm just glad someone responded! After 60 or so views and no responses, you begin to wonder if you should change deodorants or something.

Feel free to ask me anything you like about what I've written if you're curious or need clarification. I've sure bugged a lot of astrologers in my time with question after question, so I'd be more than happy repaying the karmic debt. :-)

:)

when I am looking at my own chart - it feels like I am retrograding on all I have learned or thought I understood...

I love the way ccpup explained the planets...

I've been refraining from posting in ASAH, mostly, but did want to respond to this. Thanks for the interesting picture this gives of Uranus and Mars and the Saturn connection. I've been feeling that it ain't over yet, as they say.... and that there are some surprises coming in this contest, yet.

but he does guarantee a surprise or two. That much I do know. :evilgrin:

I would watch the time frame between now (April 25th) and May 2nd for some kind of shift or news event in the race. The planet Mars will be in opposition to Barack's Saturn in a few days (April 30th through May 2nd) which is, in and of itself, a frustrating transit no matter how one slices or dices it. Best to lie low for a few days during that one. And watch one's health. Look at the sky. Play with a puppy. Tie pretty bows on packages. But don't overexert oneself.

Like Saturn, Mars has his own cycles of give and take. When Barack announced his run for the Presidency on February 10, 2007, Mars sat at 18 Capricorn. As he charged ahead to 18 Cancer this past April 16th and 17th (180 degrees opposite that 18 Capricorn spot), Barack took part in the Pennsylvania debate which -- regardless of the specific reasons -- many agree didn't help his campaign or help him gain votes in the following Primary.

So now we have Mars continuing his journey, finishing the cycle and readying to oppose his Saturn. Although there is nothing in Hillary's chart during that time which would suggest happiness or a "win" (save for Mars' upcoming trine to her Jupiter May 9 - 11 and a very brief Venus opposition her Sun), I get the sense there may be some news or event which may perhaps unpleasantly surprise Barack or his campaign.

on April 27th. I believe it was recorded today with Chris Wallace. Obama took 772 days to finally fulfill a promise to give an appearance on Foxx...he chose now. Could this be where the shoe drops?

Politico has a brief article by Ben Smith on the interview.

According to Foxx news-elections; the interview was pre-taped today, April 27th in Marion, Indiana..where I went to college; Indiana-Wesleyan University.

and this post of yours made me wonder when you might think that Mars will finish his cycle and oppose Saturn? was this the April 30th - May 2nd window you mention? Or, is there another window when the news or event may happen that may surprise Barack's campaign?

its painfully obvious that I am ignorant about astrology, but I enjoy your posts, and am trying to understand... :hi:

And a big thank you for continuing to post these threads. I find it fascinating even though I don't know anything about astrology. My guide says there is a big surprise in store by the end of summer, but he won't tell me what happens. He also says that the Republican party will be destroyed by the time this election is over.

The truth about the Republican party is no longer shielded by slogans like compassionate conservatism, etc. All the masks are falling off and the naked truth about the Republican party is becoming evident. It is good to know that the party will be destroyed by the time the election is over.

"the Republican party will be destroyed by the time this election is over."

Music to my ears! Thanks for posting this!

We do live in interesting times.

thanks for your contributions.

but you are not without your biases.

luv you anyway.

thanks stella

I am reallly enjoying watching how this plays out.

I've learned a bit in the process. Learned enough to be frustrated by my own lack of knowledge. And yet challenged to delve deeper and learn more.

I check in regularly to see if you have any new insights to share with us, and this post was a welcome surprise! I appreciate your sharing your thoughts with us.

I am not intuitive but sometimes have feelings that something is going to happen. I do have a feeling that something is going to happen soon to change this race, but I don't know what that would be.

Thank you again for taking the time to compile this information, and share it with us! :hug:

one can take the Saturn Cycle of her Health Care failure even farther back and still link it to this current campaign.

When Bill was first elected in 2003, he named Hillary as the Head of the Health Care Task Force on January 25, 1993, when Saturn was at 19 Aquarius.

If one then takes a look for when Saturn moves to the spot 180 degrees opposite where he was during the birth of that Saturn Failure fourteen years ago, we find ourselves first in early-September of 2006 and Saturn at 19 Leo, a time when Hillary was not only in her re-election campaign for her Senate Seat, but also actively on the stump in Iowa and other Midwestern States successfully campaigning for Congresspeople and laying the groundwork for her inevitable Presidential Run.

He then moves to Hillary's Nodal Degree, 23 Leo (the degree which one's North and South Nodes lie is a sensitive spot in one's chart eg. with Hillary's North Node at 23 Taurus, the 23rd degree of each sign will be sensitive to transits, progressions, etc) as she formally announces her Candidacy on January 20th, 2007, and then retrogrades back to that 19 Leo in March 2007 making his final visit in June 2007.

These March and June periods were generally times when she enjoyed front-runner status. Glimpses at the news of the day show her calling for the resignation of Gonzales and expressing concern with America's dependence on Chinese Investors (both in March). But as we get to June, we start to see Saturn get to work with questions about her candidacy, her ability to connect with Labor and, surprisingly, her ability to lead as a woman. There were also growing stories on what Edwards and Obama would need to do to knock her out of the race (signs that the astrology for those two were coming into play, especially Barack's Progressed Sun trine Progressed Jupiter which "officially" began in November 07, peaking in early-March and now waning).

Saturn in June was giving her an opportunity to recognize the inevitable turns in the road and take the necessary steps to correct them but, judging by his actions in February 2008 when he deflated her ego balloon and cleaned out her bank account as he retrograded back over her Midheaven, one can safely say she needed a bigger "wake-up" call to get the message.

Had she NOT gotten the message, Saturn would have knocked her out on March 4th as he met her MC exact (10 minutes past exact, actually). But, with her solid win in Ohio and her surprise win in the Primary in Texas, Saturn gave her a pat on the back instead. Not that her journey is over, of course. Nope. Saturn is a constant give-and-take. You work hard, you get the cookie. But then you gotta work hard again ... and again ... and again.

It's a bit like a marble block with Saturn as the sculptor. He just chisels away all that's unnecessary until he finds the piece of art within. Not easy, takes talent and is often dusty and messy and sometimes confusing. And I believe quiet chaotic and painful if you're the stone he's chipping away at! But the end result is always worth it.

It will be interesting to watch this play out. I do continue to be concerned about some of the implications of the Mars/Uranus aspects, though.

They've really encouraged me to study astrology in earnest and stop dabbling. I can hardly follow them sometimes, but certain things just "click".

The Saturnic Full Cycle you mentioned was one of those...it's amazing to me, as a student of the Art of metaphysics, the way the universe works in cycles. As above, so below.

This is some powerful stuff and I'll be chewing on it for a while, I think. Thanks again for sharing.

and certainly something can use when looking at their own chart.

For instance, if one looks at where Saturn currently is and then traces it back to where it was 180 degrees ago, if something of note was happening at that time (especially something that you consider a huge Saturn failure), chances are the situation "born" 180 degrees ago is reaching culmination.

Not quite at 180 degrees from the "birth" of that situation? More like 90 degrees away? Then the square energy would apply. That sense of "yeah, you'll get to your goal, but you gotta take THIS route instead of THAT route. Deal with it". Same thing with the trine at 120 degrees, the light at the end of the tunnel, as it were.

I'm even finding similar cycles with Mars now and I suspect there could be Jupiter cycles as well! That's why it's so difficult to confidently predict how something will play out based solely on one or two transits to a chart. You have to be aware of the Progressions, the cycles of the planets and what preceded them 180 degrees ago, 90 degrees ago, etc and so on. And, of course, an awareness of what phase the Progressed Moon is in. But seeing how the native handled earlier parts of the cycle really gives one a strong sense of how this part will be handled.

All this information helps to color the chart and give one a clearer idea of what may occur or how the energy may manifest.

Keep up with your work. Astrology really can be quite an amazing tool in one's life. I know I'm hooked!

:evilgrin:

A bit off topic, but didn't think this deserved its own thread. Hope you don't mind ccpup.

Got a little excited when I saw Saturn on Cheney's Ascendent, but then realized that it was trining Pluto (more megalomania, intimidation, power, strength, authority and domination? Nooooooo...! ACK!!). With the transiting Pluto in his 4th house it feels like he's putting down some roots or working toward some sort of permanent change. This was in effect while he visited the Middle East recently, pushing his weight around, bribing, twisting arms, no doubt. Toward what end?
And his progressed moon is also approaching the Ascendent sometime around August. Ought to be interesting... I'll bet he's making some grandiose plans...

Transiting Neptune is conj. his Mercury as well.(Secret covert communications, idealistic and getting/giving false info, lies, unconscious, impressionable, health issues, suspicious, confused..etc.)

Not to mention that transiting Jupiter is currently conj. his natal Venus, sextile the Moon and trine transiting Uranus. Catbird seat...

His Progressed Moon may be approaching his Ascendant, but what Phase is it in? (I don't have his chart info and really don't want it, quite frankly)

Progressed Moon over the Ascendant has it's own connotation, true, but if it's in a Disseminating Phase or Balsamic Phase with regards to his current Progressed Sun, it'd be a different experience than if the Progressed Moon was in a Crescent Phase, First Quarter Phase or even applying toward Full.

If he is, in fact, making grandiose plans and his Moon Phase is past Full and heading through Disseminating towards Balsamic, those plans ain't gonna amount to more than hill of beans.

And remember Jupiter can be a bit like a big balloon. Puffs things up with Faith and Optimism just to have Saturn come around to let alllllllll that air out. So, he may glad-handing it with his business relationships (conjunct Venus) and feeling pretty good and confident about how it's all gonna turn out (sextile Moon), but that trine to Uranus may trip him up.

Uranus = unpredictability and a trine isn't always necessarily a "good thing".

A brilliant and painfully young (he's, like, 21 or 22) astrologer friend of mine in London recently explained to me -- in a 4-star hotel over tea, actualy -- that a trine is a bit like personal lubricant: makes the whole process a little easier, but doesn't necessarily guarantee the celebratory cigarette at the end. Needless to say, I choked on my scone and almost had tea squirt out of my nose.

But he's right. A trine is "easy", but there isn't a hard and fast rule that they're always "good". One can "easily" get into a four-car pile-up with a trine in the chart. So, a view of the transits and progressions is always a good thing to consider.

Thanks for chiming in, Dover!

on Cheney's Ascendant. Again, that trine to Pluto may not be a good thing. May help in resurrecting the past and help to square some of that nasty karma (Saturn) he's got coming. Anything on the Ascendant, to me, always signals a health issue, whether one is getting in shape (as Saturn can help to focus one's energy on whittling away those extra pounds) or one is being faced with a crisis (Saturn's chickens coming home to roost on one's Ascendant).

The trine to Pluto, again, may not be great. It may just grease the wheels a bit for Saturn to do the work he's going to do on his Ascendant. Again, one doesn't always get the happy feeling and celebratory cigarette at the end of the trine (note: I don't smoke, but my friend's analogy still cracks me up). Remember, though, that Pluto tends to uproot things before he helps you rebuild. Whatever isn't working for one will be brutally demolished.

So, through the 4th House, one needs to ask what will Pluto destroy in Cheney's 4th House Matters before he rebuilds? What 4th House Matter -- security, one's history, family, home, roots -- will undergo that inevitable Pluto transformation before he begins the rebuilding stage?

With all that emphasis on Cheney's Ascendant (with Saturn and the Progressed Moon), I'd watch his health.

Hi ccpup. Thanks for the thoughtful reply.

A Saturn trine Pluto transit's effect on 'most' people might suggest some important yet perhaps comparatively 'small' personal transformations and change in position. However, when I see that transit in the chart of someone who already wields tremendous global power, I tend not to think small. He is like a global mafia boss for energy and other multinationals, and certainly doesn't think small himself.

Energetically, Saturn and Pluto can move mountains. And in Cheney's case especially that can mean militarily, institutionally, etc., for good or ill, depending on one's perspective. My personal rule of thumb: Never underestimate Cheney and his minions.

I do agree that so much activity occurring on the Asc. can and often does spell serious health issues, but at least the Saturn/Pluto trine transit doesn't seem like the combination that would imply succumbing to them imo. The progressed Moon/Asc. conj. and the Neptune/Mercury conjunction perhaps.

I'm not sure which progressed moon phase this is for him.

Oh, and just saw this article:

Cheney's Attorney Says Congress Has No Authority Over The VP:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3288396

Cheney's heart chakra must be a mess (incidently,his health problems seem to involve his heart) I, for one, can't wait for him to be shown the door and politically neutralized.

i/r/t Barak Obama, I think the surprise development has just happened with Rev. Wright's media tour. Is he representing Obama's Uranus-- as his spiritual advisor? Perhaps Rev. Wright feels that Barak should be using his talents in a more radical way addressing the social injustices rather than "playing the game" for the White House. I reserve comment on Hillary Clinton.

Namaste.

as more Tr Mars in opposition to Barack's Saturn, a fiery, relentless masculine figure who challenges -- via the opposition -- that sense Barack's Saturn wants to have of being solid and in control. Add to that the penchant Mars has for wanting -- and enjoying -- attention and the example becomes clearer. The fact that this transit precedes the Uranus visit to Barack's Natal Mars indicates to me how the current Tr Mars is blasting the political landscape that Uranus may challenge Barack with.

As Wright seems to be doing whatever he wants to do and will continue to do so, I would suspect it's endlessly frustrating for Barack (and his Saturn) to do anything close to controlling him and what he will or won't say.

I'd like to see his interpretation, in light of recent events.

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