Need a Spiritual take on this Invocation by Rick Warren..

I am not a huge anti-fundie, nor am I a born again, but I DO like my Lutheran Church and have come across ny diferent influences from the folks I know there. One of which was one of Warren's books "A Purpose Driven Life"
I liked some of the ideas and concepts, but couldn't follow the book because it read as a daily devotional, and I prefer reading cover to cover.
Anyway, just as in this book, and in my church, I run into people with ideals and beliefs that are not in alignment with my own. Even if I object to their view, I also try to let them make their point, and then take what I can glean as learning, prspective, etc.
I try not to take other's beliefs personally, because it is how someone else defines THEIR world and God...

So the congressional inauguration comittee selected this guy to do he opening prayer. and everyone is fuming.
He's a preacher, and he is famous...yes, he has beliefs that border on really racist and divisive, but if he is really a Christian, he may still have moments of clarity?
Not like Obama picked him to run a cabinet post, it is a 5 minute or less devotion, and may appeal to those who were not hip on Obama to begin with.
Can't people just see this for what it is, an opening prayer, by a guy who is popular and chosen by a committee?

Am I lacking compassion or fire because I am not frothing at the mouth over this? Am I wrong for seeing this as a chance for a show of unity with ALL Americans, even those who we fundamentally disagree with. ...?

your thoughts...any planetary influences, etc?

Obama is very anxious to bring the country together in the face of extreme economic times. He is very right to want to do this, but, the extreme pressures of the economy may well be taking so much precedence right now, that some decisions are being made without thinking of the ramifications.

I would not want to be in Obama's shoes in these dire times -- that is for sure.

I think he can change his mind at this time, and that it can be done so that both Obama and Warren benefit.

Actually, I hope he does so.

Showcasing a divisive spirit is no way to promote unity.

at least in reference to how I see this situation.

This causes so much pain to so many people, and it really didn't have to happen.

and, I really don't know.

I am just hoping and praying that this young, newly-elected, self-assured man will be what this country needs.

I know time will tell. But, one thing -- I do think we need to wait until he has actually assumed his position before we hold him to the fire.

I am much more upset by the talk of the possible drug czar guy. I haven't read anything within the past few days on that, so do not know the status. If he chooses that guy, nothing that comes next is a disappointment.

I'm not enraged about this, nor am I particularly happy. This is all about compromising, and it is all about giving into power. Unfortunately, we all have to do this at times. Oh, gosh. Do I remember in eighth grade listening over the intercom to Robert Frost trying to do the Kennedy inauguration??? In Texas??? Yes I do (remember listening to it in homemaking class, of all things). Yes, yes, I do. He was aging, and, well, it was interesting. I would prefer that Obama go for something like that.

Warren is not on my radar at all. If he was, it would most likely be somewhat negative. That doesn't mean he is a bad person. I doubt if I get into anything inaugural. I may sleepwalk through that.

in my book. I am intolerant of of people who are intolerant. I am willing to let them do their own thing on their own but when they seek to impose their beliefs on others I get mad - and it goes double when they spread lies trying to get their own way. http://www.talk2action.org/story/2008/12/17/195939/03/Front_Page/Short_Takes_Obama_amp_Warren_Edition

I guess I qualify as an anti-fundie at least when it comes to those who want to take over. There is a segment of them who have come right out and admitted they would love to bring back old testament law including stoning of homosexuals, witches, astrologers, females who aren't virgins when they marry, and reblious teens.

But some people like him...

He stands for the Christian right and many, many people in this country strongly favor Christianity as well. My recent job was run by Republican fundies and I thought I had landed on another planet. They were so arrogant about their faith and didn't mind belittling others, even other dominations of Christianity. Personally, I'm continually trying not to judge these people who are so openly judging us. But the real point here is that Obama is a self proclaimed Christian and has never claimed to be anything else, so this makes sense as he reaches out for acceptance from the intolerant Christian right. Like his appointments of DLC's, he's not making any points with us, but he is trying to appease the center, which is still far right by today's standards. This is exactly what the media who is owned and operated by the powers that be is constantly saying, so we know he's being advised this way.

I would be panicked if it weren't for the many channeled messages that Obama isn't aware of who he is at this time, but is expected to come to that awareness once in office. I pray that is true and have decided to be diligent in trying to manifest it if it isn't true because we need some serious change and soon if we're going to survive. I'm trying to take a broader look at what's happening. Wouldn't it be nice if people stopped fighting over religion and were just given the truth for a change. These channeled messages also say that the truth about religion is supposed to surface soon. When that happens, people like Warren are going to have to conform or get themselves lost somewhere. Yes, the Universe has it all worked out and we can all help in making it become a reality. I just can't look at it any other way.

I was thinking of all the channelings, etc as well.... maybe that's why I can't get upset at this man doing aprayer. Because the Light already knows that we have rounded the corner and shifted the tide. I am not upset or afraid by him because I live in the knowing that consciousness has numbers, and he is just a preacher.

Wouldn't it be nice if people stopped fighting over religion...indeed! I wholeheartedly agree. I also agre that the change is more important at this time. I just want Obama IN office and getting things done!

still fuzzy morning head, I'll try and comment more after a couple cups of coffee! lol

I hope it's understood that I don't like the idea of Warren being part of the inauguration at all. The Christianity movement is something I'd love to stop if it was within my power, especially after their push for Prop 8 and hatred against gays. Pat Robertson's push for assassinating other world leaders should have been a wake up call to this country years ago, but not even Cheney's recent admissions of authorizing torture will persuade the Christian right that something is wrong and needs to be changed. I used to be one of those born agains and believe me, no one thinks about anything without getting their church's permission because they are convinced that the devil will be welcomed into their lives otherwise. This type of mind manipulation is making matters worse with time.

Anyway, some other channelings have also been stressing to us lightworkers that we must learn how to ride the tide instead of trying to overcome it. Obviously, we'll never win that way. I will definitely write to Obama about my disappointment in choosing someone like Warren for his inauguration, but I realize it's something that I would be okay with riding the wave to get beyond it. As with so many things in life, we need to pick our battles and there are more important ones out there that need to be tackled first. Warren, Robertson and all the rest are starting to become more and more irrelevant as more and more people are starting to wake up.

I see a lot of light around Obama as I visualize him in my morning meditation. He has powerful Friends to help and guide him.

I am not happy that he has chosen Warren, I don't think he deserves the spotlight or the honor due to his archaic beliefs. He thinks that men are to always lead the household and that women must submit to their husbands. He equates those who are gay with other heinous predator types.

How am I supposed to think that it's OK for hate to lead the invocation. I know some will say that it's the mans viewpoint not the man but think about who he is insulting and demeaning. I am making a judgment, and clearly this man has no business opening the 1st term of an otherwise good man.
It doesn't fit and he should be asked to "be busy" so that another person can fill the spot.
Sadly I don't see that happening and in a way I understand that the bridges must be built but not while so many are just trying to live a loving life on their own terms. I expect that Obama could have chosen someone else, he's making a strategic decision but it is not a choice I like at all.

I think I just figured out who this guy is. Didn't he sponsor that faith based debate, or whatever, and claimed that McCain was in a soundproof booth backstage? When he didn't even arrive until after Obama started answering the questions? Plus supposedly they drew straws to see who would go first, but it wasn't done in public?

That whole thing bothered me a lot. I thought, "Hmmm, clearly an idiot preacher."

It was seriously "roll your eyes" time listening to that guy try to explain the non soundproof booth.

It's hard to believe that Obama trusts and/or likes this guy. If so, he has pretty poor judgment. That is just IMHO. What is he thinking?

I realize that there is some gay issue there too. I'm not as familiar with that, but even if the guy was for gay rights the lie about the soundproof booth would disqualify him for the symbolic honor, in my eyes. It's not as if there aren't a lot of talented preachers out there.

I haven't read the threads about all this in GD because they are just so long.

I guess Obama is trying to get Warren fans to watch the Inauguration. Guess what? I won't be watching it. And it is possible that I might have. I mean, a liar preacher--no, that's not to my liking at all.

But I also feel that Obama will learn, and change, for the better, in office. Overall he is pretty sharp, and not just book smart. He just isn't jaded enough yet to be completely able to discern the truth.

from politics this week. I watch very little cable news whereas I was watching it as much as possible. It is all so much circus.

I hope you all are right about Obama finding his way. Because from where I'm viewing, it looks to me like he is OWNED. If this is the case and more comes to light, I will have more to say about it.

I don't care what anyone else believes as long as it does not infringe on anyone else's rights.
I don't care who Rick Warren's God is.
I do care that he supported taking my rights away.
I do care that he is a homophobe WHO LIES to promote his brand of hate.
I do care that he is anti-womens rights.

Moments of clarity? What kind of God condones hate?
A show of unity?
ALL Americans except for gay people?
ALL Americans except for women?
And he wasn't picked by a committee, he was picked by Obama, according to at least one of the committee members.

Perhaps I only take other people's beliefs personally, when they leave tire tracks on my back. Because not only am I NOT allowed on the bus, I am thrown under it.

I give up. I really give up.

:hug:

I needed that.

The subject is so charged and I feel like there is a denial in myself as to how important or unimportant this is. I am a real pacifist, so the part of me who want to avoid confrontation says.."what's the big deal?

and I keep hoping that there was SOME way to diffuse the religious and idealistic polarity we have been dealing with. So, if a moment of making a symbolic gesture to those who are so screwed up in the head as to believe the real freak show side of fundamentalism...it seems like just throwin them a twinkie.

Really, I am idealistic too:
I believe that Light is more powerful that shadow in the human psyche
I believe that thoughts, crystals and herbs can heal
I believe that everyone can be free to make their own choices
and that consequences of our choices, individually and collectively - are leading us somewhere
I believe in Jesus, and aspire to his teachings..."turn the other cheek"
as for the Church? ...meh... It's a white man's tribeal council thing, the best they can do, and like the rest of the political and financial world, is drunk in its own power.

These old systems are suffering by the weight of OUR collective shift, and the earth, etc is holding that for us all...
I guess I am more apt to feel compassion, for both sides, than to pass a judgement.
Because I have faith that it is all working out okay.
but I am sorry too for your pain over this and other actions by our govt or their choices in rhetoric. You make some really great points and yes, his beliefs are NOT ones I hold...
There are so many out there who are scared by the changes they see coming, and they get hostile as a result...try to blame the change on those who are different from them. Very human reaction. I am holding that we can rise above this collectively.
offering you :hug:

Power drunk "ministers" are the ones who said that gay people got AIDS because of the wrath of God, and that they deserved to die.

Power drunk "ministers" have incited their followers to hate gays, and as a result the hate crimes against the GLBT community are way up.

This particular "minister" has said some pretty vile things himself.

"Turn the other cheek"? No, I think in this case He would be throwing them from the temple.

As for free choices, I didn't choose to be gay.
This "minister" chose to hate. And lie. And judge.
And that is beyond disagreeable.

As for judging them? I am not the one suggesting that they deserve death, or even less rights than the rest of us have. However, I don't think they deserve a national platform for their views. If that makes me disagreeable, call me disagreeable.

Someone in GD suggested a David Duke analogy. I think it is somewhat fitting. The only difference is that David Dukes brand of hate is no longer acceptable, while hating gay people seems to be a holy ordinance.

Thanks for the hug.

I live in Orange County, CA, home of the Saddleback Church. They are rich and arrogant. They think everyone believes as they do around here. The fundies here send their disciples to knock on our doors and try to shame us into voting against gay marriage, abortion, and anything else they can dream up to promote their hate agenda. I am not very nice to these people, just because I am so sick of it.

Obama thinks he is reaching out. He is actually reaching into a snake pit. These people will turn on him at a moment's notice--there is nothing as important to them as their belief system. Rick Warren is using the inauguration appearance to promote himself, nothing else.

I do believe that Obama is a walk-in who should understand that he has to stand up to these hate-mongers. My guides have told me so. I also hope that he is currently unaware of who he is, as that would explain his actions. I still have faith that Obama will do the right thing eventually. I absolutely understand why so many GLBT Democrats are outraged over this and I join them.

elected officials and all being involved. Not every American is a Christian so why do they get to do stuff like this when every other belief system is left out? I really don't think this is what is needed at the inauguration. Maybe if Obama wants to go to his church privately for a blessing, or invocation or whatever suits him before the inauguration, I say go for it, but once that is over, this should be nothing but a secular ceremony swearing him into office.

because frankly one thing that concerns me is exactly to whom is this guy going to be praying on our behalf? Not the God of Love, that's for SURE. I'd rather be left out of prayers to hate. But, by making it part of our political structure, we are all included, like it or not.

I mean, our forefathers had a full blown Masonic Ceremony in the midle of the streets of Washington...These days that would be seen as not very "separation of church and state"

It would be cool if we had a blessing on our country, from all sorts of religious leaders, and not just from the big 3...include a Quaker, pagan, Gay pastor, etc...now that would be SUPER cool...but rightnow people are not yet ready tpo blend and be more unified, no ready for the leap. There IS more of us than them, and they know it, that is why they are so scared and angry. I hate using terms like "us" and "them", too...that's where I wish we could get along with those that are so full of hate and the need for division.

I try to see the common ground, that's why I said in my OP that I had even read some of Warren's book and found pieces of insight that I liked...and the hate stuff I haven't been exposed to, so I am not as triggered by it. And we all know that MOST of the clergy won't say they suport Gay marriage out loud, it is just the way they are...

But like you say - the idea of bringing ANY religion to a secular event is not what should happen, but, like it or not...we are a country based on protestant beliefs and puritanical hyposcrisy... Invoking God seems to be okay if it is the christian one.

I think Obama can distinguish that he isn't letting this man tell him how to do things - I think he is smart enough to know he is saying to Warren and all the fundies/RW freaks - "I am your president too, and you have to pitch in to help rebuild this country, whatever you believe"
And he's right...
We ALL do!

Are we to relive the civil rights movement again in the Obama administration.

I thought that we were so over that and the likes of W* and his ilk were already persona non grata.

I am have been betrayed by politicians. It is hard to desparately want someone with ideals for all people with our President Elect, but the disappointment is still fresh - Democrats voting for war and the patriot act (it doesn't deserve to be capitalized), Mukasey and immunity for privacy thieves and no follow through on Gonzales, Rove, Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld, the bankruptcy law, not looking for little wmd's in legislation or speaking out about them - and most of all - silence on ongoing torture and bombing and more exiles and maiming.

I think of it this way - I trust that Obama is not going to disappoint all the new voters who came out joyously to vote for him.

So let's say, one group of hopefuls had just turned 18 before Nov 4 and voted for the first time or that some just turned 27 and never voted out of disallusion. Of either group, what if some were homosexuals. Perhaps they are too young to know the battles that preceded their adulthood if now 18 or perhaps they turned it all off if 27. What if they catch up on the issues - where will they be with this selection?

Our children are the key to our survival and our planet.

He, Obama, has a huge role to play and trust to keep.

What if the committee chose this Warren reverend man who is conducting many wars against the people - and what if Obama went along the committee. Knowing how we've been betrayed repeatedly by most of our leaders, could this committee have had lousy intentions? From sending a message? Or worse? Do I deserve to be paranoid about our own? (If yes, please send your light).

Sorry for the dark side, where is the change in the path? When should a change in the path be taken? This could have been a great opportunity to take a path for MORE joy - by selecting someone who wouldn't alienate us NOR the Republicans.

I hold disdain for Warren. My truth, for me, hurts.

When I remember some of the religious "leaders" he had campaigning for him, right on stage at rallies, Warren is logical.

As I've tried to say before, Obama generated a tremendous amount of positive energy, but that energy came from his supporters, and were based on THEIR visions of change. Not his.

After the election, I posted this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=245x79188

and this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=245&topic_id=79634#79647

I have to say that any vestiges of "hope" I felt at the time are gone, and the Warren thing is just one more negative choice on top of many I see Obama having made since then.

efficiency one. Mr. Warren takes a marriage contract and turns it into a matter of one man and one women? He says that it has been this way for thousands of years? Listen to your own heart. If it has room for this man and his pointing of the finger at others who are not like him, then don't worry about it. But if your heart tells you that to use other people to shore up your own self worth is cheap then you know your answer.

...soooo, who the hell IS he? I'm clueless as to what channelings you are speaking about as I would love to see/hear them. Just wanting to know and now I am dying to find out ...
Cat In Seattle

Matthew’s July 27, 2008 Message

11. How can I say Barack Obama is a light being? Because he is. For the benefit of new readers, I shall paraphrase what I said about him in prior messages, starting with his unstoppable momentum toward the presidency. At this point, he is only following a strong sense of urgency to lead his country out of its downward spiral and his conviction that he can do this, but in time he will be consciously aware that he is a soul from an intellectually and spiritually advanced civilization and embodied on Earth specifically to fulfill this mission. What he has been very clear about all along is that he must appear to be aligned with the Illuminati goals; otherwise, he never could have become the Democratic party nominee. This accounts for his veering on some issues that have disappointed some of his supporters, who have no idea that what he is doing is in accordance with Illuminati “guidance.” Time will show that his essence, intentions and actions are aligned with the light.

http://www.matthewbooks.com/mm/anmviewer.asp?a=90&z=2

Here’s another articles about Obama saying things he never says about himself.

For those who understand how to read the Book of Life, formulations of names are no coincidence. Obama's name carries great potency and good within it. Barack is derived from the African Kiswahili word baraka, which means blessing. In Arab influenced languages, baraka also means "spiritual wisdom, or a blessing transmitted from God." His last name begins with an "O", a circle, that is the symbol of wholeness or completeness, and it also includes the two syllables "ba," and "ma." In multiple cultures "ba" signifies father, and "ma" mother. His middle name, Hussein, generally means in Arabic, "good, or good looking." Thus we have a name that means a good and handsome man, carrying spiritual wisdom and blessings from God -- empowering wholeness and balance as father and mother, or masculine and feminine energies.

An immediate impact of his name is seen in the Arab/Muslim world, and its relationship with the West, which is arguably the most significant political/military issue of our times. The very fact that he has a Muslim middle name, and a first name of Arabic derivation, has already had a large impact on Muslims the world over, who thought the U.S. would never elect a black man with a Muslim name. The Iraqis have already said they would trust Obama to keep U.S. agreements with them more than Bush, and some Taliban leaders were quoted in a Pakistani newspaper saying they would be more willing to negotiate with an Obama - led administration. This is a result of more than his name, but it very much adds to the openness that the Muslim world now has to the U.S. and soon to be President Obama.

These are additional indications of a higher power at work, strengthening and supporting Obama's appearance out of seeming nowhere in a few short years, as the right man, in the right place, at the right time, and even with the right name, all of which is extraordinary.

http://www.mayanmajix.com/art3795.html

Also, I went to hear Kryon channeled through Lee Carroll on December 1st in Laguna Beach. He said Obama was reincarnated from the days of Lemuria and it wasn't by chance that he was born in Hawaii. I noticed on his website that this channeling is not up yet, but if you look for it, you will see it for yourself.

I also speak frequently with a channel who has a lot of solid information I can usually always rely on. She told me about two years ago that Barack Obama was the reincarnate of Abraham Lincoln and if we were a gifted country, Obama would be our next president. I could never imagine Obama saying he was a reincarnate of anyone, at least not at this time.

There are several sites that I read on a daily basis with numerous channeling articles. I made a cursory review to find more links of what I've read, but it's a lot of articles to go through.

that Obama is putting together. I don't begin to understand what the completed puzzle will look like; I only hope that this one piece doesn't so frustrate that the puzzle refuses to come together. This is simply my impression, gained intuitively--something hard to explain to those who only frequent GD.

if one preaches hatred how can there be any moments of clarity? Isn't Christianity supposed to be based on the fact that one man gave up his life because he loved us? So how can that exist with hate? And just to clarify he was chosen by Obama, not by some one else. It just seems so wrong to me that he would chose such a dark hateful person to offer up a prayer.

You know how the rabid GLBT opponents are frequently discovered to be involved in clandestine homosexual activity? In fact the ones who scream the loudest are often the ones discovered to be hiding their own actions. I would not be surprised if Rick Warren is one of these. What we cannot face in ourselves is what we react the most strongly against.

my husband and I were talking about that today. I think you are probably right

It happens with enough regularity to assume one doth protest too much.
Especially the Catholic Church's over reaction speaks volumes, when they are no doubt the guiltiest of hypocrisy.