Am I too harsh and judgemental?

So I have been wondering of late where one draws the line between true skepticism and inflexibile narrow minded rigidity.
Its no secret that here on DU I get accused of being a narrow minded fundamentalist (both "scientist" and "atheist") but I get the same accusations in the real world on a frequent basis. My older sister tells me I have a negative/bad attitude because I refuse to see how everybodies favorite book/piece of tripe "The Secret" can help improve my life. My younger sister thinks I am being narrow minded because I refuse to believe in "unexplained phenomena" without scientific/empirical evidence, because after all scientists don't know every thing and used to believe the world is flat (:eyes: ).
Anyway, you here an accusation enough you begin to wonder. Plus something else that happened the other day.
Remember the magic footpads?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=247x14487
A coworker out of the blue mentioned she would LOVE to try them. I just was, well, pretty surprised. Not only does she do the same work as me, but has always struck me is pretty rational. And she seemed to think because it was based on reflexology and acupuncture theory it was valid! She also pointed out, that it couldn't hurt her (true) and she doesn't mind wasting money on stuff like this, even if it ends up being worthless. She was too polite to say it but I got the impression she thought I was being, well, a bit closed minded and too skeptical.
So if its woo, but harmless woo and a person is willing to acknowledge that they may be wasting money is it intolerant to try to argue agaisnt it? I personally don't think so but...I had an experience at a job at NIH last year that made me vow to not tolerate any bullshit whatsoever (for those who don't know the story it involves lying, backstabbing, data manipulation, professional smears made agaisnt me by people I made look bad with my work and ending with the brilliant scientist (and good friend) who hired me being pushed out in a political struggle).
I know I am opinionated and have a lot to say, but I wonder if sometimes I am too skeptical and have become closed minded in some ways. I would hope not. I would like to think that given the appropriate data, I will be able to accept something that I would have previously dismissed out of hand as woo. I am certain that even here, in this most rational group there are at least a couple people who beleive I am a bit biased and too narrow minded about certain things.
So I ask you, where do you draw the line?

Learn to laugh at the woo woos and take pleasure in their folly.

Once upon a time my very own Mother told the family that she intended to visit a psychic. The family unanimously agreed that "It sounds like fun!".

After her visit we all had a good laugh at the crazy things the psychic told her. By treating it as amusement rather than delusion we disarmed a volatile situation and discouraged further visits.

There is simply not enough laughter in the world. You have to take it where you find it.

And I have had people telling me some version of that most of my adult life...Too bad some others around here don't follow it...:)

and as long as the footpads don't do anything but soak up the years of accumulated grunge in the skin on the bottoms of her feet (how often do we actually scrub the bottoms of our feet?), it's not going to do anything one way or another. Well, unless she notices it looks mostly like sock lint instead of bodily toxins and the placebo effect is canceled.

It's her money to waste if she wants to. If she feels better because of it, that's great. If she doesn't, she'll join the rest of us in sour skepticism of quack medical devices. It's a win-win situation.

No, you aren't "a bit biased and too narrow minded about certain things".

However, you may be lettings things that you can't influence affect you too much.

You say, "I would like to think that given the appropriate data, I will be able to accept something that I would have previously dismissed out of hand as woo." But you will never get the appropriate data for some things in which people you may otherwise respect and like are willing to believe. Sometimes it's just better to keep quiet when all around are losing their sense of reason. It's like, I loathe christmas carols but I don't say anything about it because people automatically accuse me of being an "atheist spoilsport" when, in fact, I just loathe the bloody things.

I have a friend who also has MS. She's doing a science degree with the Open University here. She believes that some homeopathic remedies work even though she knows (and admits) that rationally/scientifically they can't. Our friendship is, in the end, more important than my desire to point out how ridiculous her POV is.

cosmik debris is right - don't be so hard on yourself.

This is actually something I've been thinking about for an article I'm writing.

cosmik's advice is good I think. Humor and pain are essential to the human experience and it's impossible to deal with the latter without the former. Anyone who has ever laughed at the antics of their dog or cat should understand intuitively that humans are just as ridiculous animals as our pets. So why not laugh at it all?

Also I would add that I believe we should have a good amount of empathy for people who believe in pseudo-science or the paranormal. After all, we're all human and I think one of the key elements to being a skeptic is to understand how frail we all are. I don't mean just physically frail, but also our entire sensory, perceptual and cognitive apparatus. The points of failure along the way, and by failure I mean failure to accurately represent objective reality, are manifold. When you add to this the fact that we are social animals who both want and need to bond with our family, friends and peers then I think it becomes clear I think to see how easy it is to believe in any of it. I think it's a rare individual who has never had some sort of false belief (again, I mean a belief that is not in accordance with objective reality).

Additionally I think one of the things that distinguishes us as as skeptics from the general population is that we, for whatever reason, tend to value bringing our beliefs into as close a correspondence with objective reality as possible. Actually, I should say that we tend to value that more so than most people because there are also very few individuals who don't believe in or value objective reality (although they are out there). That doesn't mean they're stupid. It merely means that with all the pressures of just living in the world they value other things more highly, such as spending time with their families, playing, and just all around trying to mitigate the pain that we all experience.

Does that mean we shouldn't point out the absurdity of pseudo-scientific or paranormal claims? Does that mean we should respect those beliefs? No. I'm just saying that we should be considerate of other's beliefs and realize that perfectly rational, intelligent people can come to some rather extraordinary beliefs with surprising ease and alacrity. And maybe, just maybe, we hold some unevidenced beliefs of our own without even knowing it.

So are you too harsh and judgmental? Nah. I think you're frustrated and angry though. Many of us are. I remember a talk that Carl Sagan gave at a CSICOP meeting not too long before he died and being surprised at hearing the frustration and anger in his voice and words. After all, with many of these topics it's not as if the information isn't there to show their impossibility or inefficacy and it isn't as if there are a large number of people effectively communicating that information. But the charlatans, quacks, and frauds always seem to win out. Who wouldn't be frustrated and angry?

Here's where I think we all could do better though... The same polarization that has so dominated politics of the last twenty years has crept into the rest of our lives. We're all too quick to label someone who believes differently from us as a moron, or, worse, an enemy. I think that's what your sisters are doing when they tell you you're being narrow-minded or have a negative attitude. While we've always had to deal with those non-sensical arguments I think we're seeing more of them as a result of every facet of life being polarized. And we have to fight that too. However, as long as we can keep humor and empathy alive then I think we'll do fine.

At least that's what I think. It doesn't seem to be a popular view though so take it with a grain of salt.

I may not be the most objective person about this; as you probably know, I also had to deal for many years with a Workplace Bully, who was a real sociopath-next-door type, who went after lots of people from most of his students to his own supposed boss; and was particularly against anyone who had any health problem or disability. So at times I think paranoia has become my middle name as regards a certain type of person!

I do think that one has to set realistic goals, and that if someone 'swears by' alternative medicine, one probably can't do much to influence them - I have relatives like that myself. All one can do is try to combat the more extremist sorts of propaganda. If Joe Bloggs doesn't want to vaccinate his own child, no one on a website will change his mind. However, if Joe Bloggs preaches on a website that *no one* should vaccinate their children, and implies that this is part of a left-wing cause, then it may help to point out that NOT all left-wingers think the same thing. Providing medical/scientific evidence may help, though a surprising number of people will disregard it.

If we had more willingness as a society to confront stupidity maybe we'd be better off. The saying "In for a penny, in for a pound" seems to apply disturbingly well when it comes to woo.

I wonder how much of the creeping woo we find today is because people thought it harmless and therefore not worth arguing about...It seems to be a fine line though about trying to confront people on their woo and crossing the line into being a jerk, but maybe thats what its gonna take to get rid of this stuff..I wish some of these people could hear how ridiculous their woo sounds to the rest of us...

"Expressing an opinion", and telling others that they are idiots. They may be idiots, but such news is never welcomed with an open mind. They may pretend to be grateful to you for having pointed out their intellectual short-comings, but such gratitude is never sincere, and may disguise a certain ill-natured resentment. The ignorant are often characterized by a kind of churlish self-regard, which a high-minded person like yourself may find hard to understand. Don't allow yourself to be discouraged by rebuffs. Maybe the timing was wrong, maybe they are just not emotionally or intellectually ready for your message. Keep hammering away, and eventually they will either give in and acknowledge your superior insight, or they will run screaming from the room whenever you appear. There is a third possibility, but I think the likelyhood of physical attack is remote as long as you stay out of working class taverns.

Ah if only I could get my sisters to do that.....:rofl:

Had a conversation about atheism and religion the other day. He's been an athiest most of his life, and I was raised as one (I used to read his skeptic magazines when he was done with them). We were talking about how it is becoming more and more difficult to calmly sit by and listen to religious claptrap. We both came to the conclusion that, because it's all crammed down our throats so much now, it's that much more irritating, and the current state of US and world affairs, especially in the face of religious influence, is just pushing us further along towards, not necessarily intolerance, but a realization that sitting back and "letting people have their funny beliefs" can and DOES have serious detrimental effects. More of a "fed up to here" feeling. Shit, when I was a kid in backwater Texas in the '80's I didn't have/hear of nearly as much religious hoohaw as I do now.