The "Magic Negro expectations" game!

Larry Flynt getting his Kudos from the Regulars suspects right on the GDP site.
Since he thinks that Obama is a failure already, six months in,
it figures....

73 Recs and rising, for this piece of shit of a commentary:




Gawd, I'm so fucking tired of those who have such high expectations, and so little positive to say of anything good that has happened. Good to know who one's friends are, and who it is that can't wait to stab this President in the heart......cause he ain't doing it on the timetable superior beings envisioned.

He not only has to deal with the Racist bullshit eminating from all over the place, including the mainstream media, he also has to deal with those who expected him to have solved all of the nation's problems by now, despite 8 years of ruthless incompetency, a bought and paid for corporate media parroting GOP points as often as possible, the minority party of No and their big ass microphones (handed to them by the media), the bungling "scared of the media" congress, an easily manipulated nation of selfish scared-ass whiners and cowards, those who are disappointed that Obama isn't a Socialist, as well as those who have been waiting to pounce on this President for anything and everything he does (PUMA).

No, you see.....our problem is solely this President; Barack Obama.

Why the hell am I supposed to care what Larry Flynt thinks about isht?? Now, there's no question some of what he said made sense (Obama needs to stop worrying that the Repubs feel "included" because we all know that they are nothing but obstructionists) and that "Obama won and the Repubs didn't" but beyond that I have no idea why I'm supposed to care about what that man thinks.

as well as those who have been waiting to pounce on this President for anything and everything he does (PUMA).

Ummm... it ain't just the PUMAS you know. Hell, the PUMAS have actually slithered off to obscurity where they belong.

who work hard in an attempts to gain support and friendship and then turns around and ends up having been sent from the other camp. Those are the biggest assholes of all....cause they have cunning and patience (except for when it comes to this administration, that is).


Fool me once, shame on you....
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8563770

And don't forget to keep in mind the two-faced ones.....who work hard in an attempts to gain support and friendship and then turns around and ends up having been sent from the other camp.

I'm confused! Are you talking about the person who posted the OP or some of the so-called Democrats who are fighting Obama tooth and nail on everything??

:(

I get lost at "failed to live up to his campaign promises".....there is a reason it's a 4yr term! How do you fail in 7 months?
I knew the Obama bashers would love it....doesn't take much for them.

Girl, question of the MILLENIUM.

But you know we've always have been and always will be held to a different standard.

...larry flynt is frequently hailed as some sort of progressive hero on this site. :eyes::puke:
(in spite of much evidence to the contrary...)

apparently many on du have bought into the lies presented in the 'people vs. larry flynt', and think him some sort of free speech warrior.

admittedly, i was amused by flynt' attempt to point out the hypocrisy of the right wing, during the clinton scandal--by offering a sizeable cash reward to anyone w/dirt on congress members. but this pales in comparison to flynt's other exploits, imo. :scared:

For years a popular feature in Flynt's signature publication, Hustler, was a cartoon that followed the exploits of a fictional serial sexual abuser of young girls, Chester the Molester. The cartoon was discontinued only when the cartoonist, Dwayne Tinsley, was convicted of sexually abusing his real-life daughter -- who claimed the art was a chronicle of her actual victimization.

excerpt from:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jackson-katz/dennis-kucinich-endorses-_b_77226.html


gloria steinem's article regarding hollywood's sanitized version of flynt:

Filmgoers don't see such Hustler features as "Dirty Pool," which in January 1983 depicted a woman being gang-raped on a pool table. A few months after those pictures were published, a woman was gang-raped on a pool table in New Bedford, Mass. Mr. Flynt's response to the crime was to publish a postcard of another nude woman on a pool table, this time with the inscription, "Greetings from New Bedford, Mass. The Portuguese Gang-Rape Capital of America."

Nor do you see such typical Hustler photo stories as a naked woman in handcuffs who is shaved, raped, and apparently killed by guards in a concentration-camp-like setting ("The Naked and the Dead"). You won't even meet "Chester the Molester," the famous Hustler cartoon character who sexually stalks girls.

excerpt from:
http://www.feminist.com/resources/artspeech/media/flynt.htm

So just because he calls out Repubs as the lying, hypocrites they are, we're supposed to overlook the FORTUNE he made exploiting young women? Ummmmm... okay.

He's no better than a pimp, as far as I'm concerned. Pimps are probably some of the most streetwise people in the world and I'm sure they drop pearls of knowledge on a daily basis. But that damn sure doesn't make them progressive heroes! Lord, this place is :crazy:!!

sadder still is the fact that pimping isn't universally agreed upon as a "negative."

somehow, the definition of a pimp has shifted in society, (particularly within youth culture) from being a negative to a positive (....he's a player!) the stigma associated w/pimping has somehow lifted--making it not so bad to be viewed as a pimp. (snoop, the pimp cups and outfits didn't help, imo). now it's glamourous, slick, cool, etc. (how disturbing is that?)

televising the exploits of places like "the bunny ranch" (the nevada brothel) hasn't helped much, either.

speaking of tv, something is very wrong with a network that creates a show called, "pimp my ride," imo. :eyes: as if to say, to "pimp" is just another way of saying "make something better." :banghead:

so sick and sad.

Pimp Star rims


Granted, if it had a different name I'd still think it was tacky and I still say "It's Hard out Here for a Pimp" didn't deserve it's Oscar but the glamorization of pimps has gone too far.

thanks for sharing, though. good to know that they've branched out into "pimp merchandising." :eyes:

who thinks up this crap, and why are they not being restrained, and medicated in a mental health facility?

here's one for you:

http://www.customcups.net/pimp-cups.html

the naysayers would be sucking it up and adding to it. I just told one to quit crying and deal! Now, the Slate has an article out telling Obama to slow down! HUH? Wouldn't they just love it if he wasn't doing a darn thing?

Ridiculous!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8564720

And why would you be tired of "those who have such high expectations" of Obama?... Rather, why not say that you're tired of those who criticize Obama's choice of tactics?...

Near as I can tell, Obama is satisfied to "ignore civil-liberty violations such as warrantless wiretapping", in that he doesn't want to pursue investigations into allegations of such violations by the W administration. Ostensibly out of a desire to be reconciliatory with the "right". He did "pass a stimulus package that is obviously full of pork for Democrats", in as much as he passed a stimulus package and most stimulus spending can be "spun" as "pork" (and the spending was the whole point... so using the label "pork", while politically loaded, is largely irrelevant). He did "hand over billions more in taxpayer dollars to crooked bankers"... though that was mostly in the form of Bush plans (TARP) that Obama opted not to stop paying, for fear (very legitimate fears, in fact) over the potential economic repercussions... though that doesn't, technically, even mention all the billions handed over to "crooked" insurance agents (AIG comes to mind) which Obama presided over. (Should AIG policies have been bailed out in order to pay 100 cents on the dollar for policies insuring "toxic asset derivitaves"? It is certainly a point that can be argued.)

The point that I think you're missing, Frenchie, in Flynt's screed is that of "growing a pair" (sure, it's a crass way to say it, but Flynt is a smut mogul...). In the context of a call to "grow a pair", Flynt's criticisms sound to me not so much as a litany of things that show some sort of incompetence/"lack of pair-possession"... but rather an attempt to call on Obama to become combative enough to "own" the attempts at criticism and to press on and use the Democratic majorities he has in order to mercilessly steamroll the Republicans and Blue Dawgs in order to pass things like healthcare. If, for instance, Obama is going to choose not to pursue investigations for violations of warrantless wiretapping in the name of not being distracted from a healthcare fight, then, I think Flynt is arguing, then the least that Obama can do is engage in a healthcare fight!

You lament "he also has to deal with those who expected him to have solved all of the nation's problems by now, despite...", but that's not what Flynt was calling for. Not that Obama is supposed to have "magically" solved all problems by now, but that he do more to fight for those solutions than he "seems" to be doing.
Flynt's words were: "Who needs the Republicans? They don’t know what compromise is. They’re just out to derail your presidency. Bitch slap ’em at every opportunity and put them in their place. They lost; you didn’t." That's not a questioning of why things aren't solved already, it's a call to get them solved, by "Bitch slap{ping} 'em at every opportunity..."

You may disagree with Flynt's advised tactics... but they are an expression of the attitude of many who want to see the Republicans treated the way W and Co. treated Democrats for 8 years.

If you have criticisms of the tactics, and I'm sure many of us do, that's all well and nice... but trying to dismiss the tactical urgings of those who are itching for a fight as some sort of "Magic Negro Expectations game" feels like a cheap and lazy way to try to avoid considering the possibility that the fight/"Bitch slap" tactic might well be worth consideration.

is that you are upset with the phrase "Magic Negro." It's funny how it sticks in so many DUer's craw. Really, you don't need to explain Flynt's point, we (I) GET IT, nor do I agree with your characterizations of them. But I think what you don't get is that basically, from what I can tell, Congress is completely left out of the equation. It seems that Obama is to Magically get things done - and he better get it right the first time - by fighting both the right and the left, particularly the Blue Dawgs within our own party. Kind of unprecedented for the number of years I've been following politics.

It's amazing to me that you don't see him engaged more in the healthcare fight when I see the exact opposite. And equally amazing is how many expect a bitch slapper when that was never ever his style during the primaries or on the campaign trail. So to expect a change in personality in far less than a year is truly naive. May be he'll change. I dont' know.

There is no denying, in my book, expectations are waaay to high for a man in office for 6months and "Magic Negro" is a very apt term - and that goes for anyone in his position, be it Magic Caucasian or Magic Asian - if you think that in this short amount of time he can wade through and clean up the massive worldwide, historical and incomprehensible dirty work that he was left with; I never ever forget that in assessing Obama.

As far as I'm concerned I think it is cheap and lazy and terribly naive to expect more and exactly what you want in this little amount of time. So criticize all you want but you should really get used to understanding the phrase "Magic Negro," as I have with the "where's my pony" crowd.

I just don't think that the argument, which you are echoing, that Flynt's open letter amounts to "expecting more and exactly what you want in this little amount of time." is an accurate characterization of Flynt's letter. Most specifically the "in this little amount of time" qualifier gets under my skin. Why?, because, as I pointed to before, I don't see any criticisms of things not yet accomplished, but rather criticisms of things not yet begun.

And I don't see the grounds for the Magic Negro description of the expectations being expressed. The actual definition that I'm finding on Wiki sums Magic Negro up succinctly as
"a supporting, often mystical stock character in fiction who, by use of special insight or powers, helps the white protagonist get out of trouble"
I dispute the accuracy of applying this definition to expectations expressed by Flynt. Firstly, Obama is hardly "a supporting... character", rather he is, if anything, the protagonist in this government drama. Secondly, there is no call being made for Obama to "use... special insight or powers"... but rather a call being made for him to use some good old brawling tactics, the likes of which are familiar and comfortable to the "average American", especially those that are fans of professional "wrestling". Thirdly, the most defining factor of the Magic Negro (and the one that most differentiates Magic Negroes from Superman) is the "helps the white protagonist..." part- but the call made by Flynt is "The American people have placed their future in your hands. For heaven’s sake don’t let them down. Don’t let yourself down." ... so, unless one is comfortable defining "the American people" as a protagonist (not to mention white), the Magic Negro archtype doesn't work.

Rather, in this drama I would cast Obama as the protagonist, and Flynt as the "Magic Whitey"... with the twist that Flynt's "special insight or powers", while they are supposed to be "directed toward helping and enlightening a white {black} male character.", Flynt's "powers" instead work in reverse, and "de-enlighten" any who submit to his advice... and the question is, is "de-enlightenment" what is called for in this situation? Is Magic White Boy onto something, or is he just a fool?

And, rather than try to somehow claim that Flynt is expecting Obama to magically make it all better for "the American people"... I think it is the usefulness of Flynt's tactical advice that should really be the point of consideration. After all, no one calls on a Magic Negro to go and help a protagonist. Characters only need to do that for Mundane Negroes.

On the other hand, when you say "And equally amazing is how many expect a bitch slapper when that was never ever his style during the primaries or on the campaign trail. So to expect a change in personality in far less than a year is truly naive." I couldn't agree more. A part of me would love to see Obama heckling those undermining a public option, Blue Dawgs doing abrupt about faces in the media indicative of being cowed by political threats, Republicans suddenly forced to defend their own outrageous claims... and all other sorts of indicators that Obama has become willing to play "hardball", as dirty and vicious as it gets... but another part of me doesn't see it as being his style, and hopes that rather Obama is hoping to draw out critics and criticisms, and will try to apply the "hardballing" in a relatively "surgical" fashion, so as not to have to do any more of that which doesn't come naturally than necessary.

There are some who are too skittish to want to take the chance, I think. Flynt is one of them, I think. All those Reccing the post in GDP are also among "those". I'm not entirely sure I'm not one of "those" myself. But to try to call that skittishness and the consequent call to "Don’t pull punches..." some sort of Magic Negro expectation is to misunderstand the fundamental nature of the calls...

Perhaps you might make an overture by viewing "The Colour of Fear" here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vAbpJW_xEc&feature=PlayList&p=1DB8BADA380443A0&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=10

It doesn't actually answer the issues specific to the open letter from Flynt to Obama. I do recognize the notion of privilege, and the notion of "white" as "baseline" for social interactions in the US specifically. What I think many people are missing though, is that the content and tone of the letter written to Obama by Flynt are not in any way different that the content and tone that I would expect to see in a letter from Flynt to Kerry- had John Kerry won the election and then gone on to make the choices and take the actions (and inactions) that Obama has thus far made/taken.

So, I've presented my interpretations... based on the explicit definition of Magic Negro... for how and why I don't feel that it is accurate to interpret "Magic Negro expectations" to the letter written by Flynt. You've "begun" by linking me to that clip, which very concisely captures and illustrates the "other"-ification that the dominant "white" culture of the US espouses in its views of "ethnic minorities". I don't dispute that as an all to real and regular phenomnon, but I would now ask you to point to something specific in Flynt's letter that reflects the same sort of "other"-ification. Or which suggests that anyone other than Obama himself is the protagonist in the drama that we're watching (and thus, by definition, isn't eligible for Magic Negro-hood). In fact, I would be interested to see what specifically you, or anyone else, sees in Flynt's letter that is specifically racial at all.

But I still stand by my first assessment that Magic Negro is apt. Let's not pretend the White protagonist is not the Mass of whites who voted for him, without whom Obama would not be in office. The bottom-line is the Magic Negro delivers in times of trouble. And all I'm hearing from Flynt and the pony crowd is quaking F-E-A-R. Many of us have lived this kind of fear for our very existence on a daily basis, and the last 8years just ramped it up for ALL of us. And that's probably one of the differences in the two camps and I'm sure neither camp is all black or all white.

While there are some things I don't agree with or fully understand, I seek out posts and info looking to explain why he can't shut GITMO down right now, why he can't remove troops right now, why can't Gays marry right now, why with a majority health care can't be passed this instant, et cetera. But I also balance that with the many good things Obama has done and the hard work yet to finish.

Pony lovers to me want the POTUS to change right now because he's had his chance (Alone) to know exactly what to do at all times. Again, at this point I think Flynt's tactic is too premature, to me based in fear leading to unreasonable expectations grounded in the Messiah syndrome the GOP so firmly nailed among many of us during the campaign trail.

is the fact that, by definition, a protagonist is:
"1 a: the principal character in a literary work (as a drama or story) b: a leading actor, character, or participant in a literary work or real event
2: a leader, proponent, or supporter of a cause : champion"

Except for definition 2, synonym 3... the mass of voters doesn't fulfill the definition of a "protagonist". In contrast, Obama himself fulfills every definition, and every synonym associated with the term "protagonist". As a result, I still think the term Magic Negro, and the connotations that it is a supporting character who makes it possible for a white "main character" (protagonist) to achieve his (or her?) final aim, and thus achieve status worthy of lauding for having overcome whatever obstacle the theme took the form of... is not applicable to Obama. He is, as I see it, himself the protagonist, and when/if he accomplishes great things, he will be the one worthy of lauding for having overcome the obstacles of the political landscape.

This is what is causing me confusion. I don't understand why many voices seem determined to revoke Obama's status as protagonist/champion/principal character in the drama that is the blossoming progressive (or at least not regressive) political movement of now.

I do see your point of view though, in which Obama is a "servant of the people", and I can see then going on to define "the people" as being "the Mass of whites who voted for him"... but it seems to me that that "casting" is a function of framing Obama's role as one of "servant", as opposed to "champion".

So, hoping that all of that was somehow illustrative of what I'm talking about, I'm curious to hear what words, phrases, or connotations-of-phrase used by "He whom bliss_eternal would have me not name" cause you to read "He whom bliss_eternal would have me not name"'s words as casting Obama in the "servant" of the "people" role, rather than "champion" of the "people"?

As for the issues you mention... "why he can't shut GITMO down right now, why he can't remove troops right now, why can't Gays marry right now, why with a majority health care can't be passed this instant, et cetera" ... I can see the arguments one way or the other. I also have personal opinions on each of the above. Likewise, Obama and each member of his Cabinet have opinions. And likewise "with the many good things Obama has done" (in particular, I am in awe of the amazing foreign policies that he's been trying so diligently to put into place). Once again though, I think many "criticisms" are calls for a more puissant championship, rather than some sort of chastising of a servant.

.

I'm glad you understood. I didn't realize until Looswilly pointed out your post in his response to me about Flynt. I mean I fully know that he is a pornographer and don't care but the rest pretty much turned my stomach.
Second, I can't hang too long with circular arguments. Either you understand the culture or you don't, preferring to use a wiki definition as a buttress/foundation when conversing with live people who live the life is useless to me.

I understand the culture as well as any half breed quarter adopted into it can... and I still think the Magic Negro argument is a weak attempt to try to diffuse criticism of Obama by casting any who criticize him as trying to "recast" him as... a Magic Negro. A casting which I used wiki definitions to argue against. If you don't like the wiki definitions.. please supply some others, and I will re-appraise the argument in terms of the alternate definitions you provide.

If you want to have a discussion without any concrete notions upon which to base said discussion... I can do that too.

I think attempts to deflate criticisms of Obama as "Magic Negro Expectations" are a cheap attempt to deride all criticisms as a "white" cultural attempt to "deride" Obama... I think Obama himself would be offended to hear that criticisms are being dismissed thusly, as this sort of dismissal is an insult to his capacity to act as President just the same as any other (white, brown, yellow, red, black, or half-breed combination of any of the above).

As long as we're being de-tethered from any sort of "definitions" to justify our comments, I think my black step father would also be rather offended that criticisms of Obama's behavior on policy were being dismissed as a mere attempt by white people to make the black man fix their mess (isn't that the implication of the Magic Negro expectation meme?).
This is a national problem... sure, most of these problems were created by asshole white guys... but the notion that Obama should consider "He who shan't be named"s letter asking for unabashed fighting is hardly a call for him to Magically fix the white "ex-protagonists'" mess... but rather a call for a tactic that is hoped will be of use in his successful championing of the rest-of-us in the struggle... for everyone, including a couple of lucky white assholes who might've been part of the problem and who stand to gain from recovery of real estate prices, stock market prices, etc. ...

I am still curious to hear someone specifically talk about why "he who shan't be named"s letter isn't worth at least deconstructing so as to deny the viability there of. It's a call for a tactic. Argue yes or no. Tell me about how it is better for Obama to "pull his punches" with Blue Dawgs... something.

But, if you're going to try to belittle me for quoting some sources for my arguments... why not just call me an "oreo" and get it over with?

That's really the gist of this argument, isn't it? I'm acting "too white" by quoting something to back up what I'm saying? Are you going to tell me that that attitude isn't part of "the culture"? Or maybe being a half breed who lived for all too long in Oakland... is still just a half breed? No matter which communities said half breed might've lived amongst? Like... say... Obama living on the South Side?...

Picking and choosing those who are allowed to speak?... so as to control the message?...

If I were more paranoid, I might actually believe the above charges... ;)

:thumbsdown:

Former Surgeon General Joycelyn Elders said the EXACT same thing.

From http://edition.cnn.com/2009/LIVING/worklife/07/30/what.matters.joycelyn.elders/



And I do believe that I will take her opinion of the country's health care crisis over 98% of DU's any day of the week.

There is no denying, in my book, expectations are waaay to high for a man in office for 6months and "Magic Negro" is a very apt term - and that goes for anyone in his position, be it Magic Caucasian or Magic Asian - if you think that in this short amount of time he can wade through and clean up the massive worldwide, historical and incomprehensible dirty work that he was left with; I never ever forget that in assessing Obama.

As far as I'm concerned I think it is cheap and lazy and terribly naive to expect more and exactly what you want in this little amount of time. So criticize all you want but you should really get used to understanding the phrase "Magic Negro," as I have with the "where's my pony" crowd.

Girl, this entire post is BRILLIANCE. Sheer brilliance. Oh my God...

...i still mourn the loss of elders as surgeon general. i've always liked and respected elders.
:thumbsup:

anita hill
jocelyn elders
lani guinier
not to mention clinton's sistah souljah performance art.
i couldn't take any more for "the team."

I got the chills reading the Elders excerpt, not because it confirms my observation but how can anyone with eyes and/or ears not know the man is working his ass off on health care, and Dr. Elders had to jump in to explain what he's doing running from state to state BY HIMSELF all week? God Lord Almighty, it makes me want to rip my hair out!

champion.' Although, you clearly emphasized that is not his style or demeanor. As Frank Lucas said, "the quiet one is the most powerful one in the room." Also, as you stated, apologists for that freak have taken congress totally out of the equation! As I read through this thread I just shook my head.

...w/out addressing the concerns specifically stated re: this issue, i'd like to say the following:

i'm not at all prepared for seeing any level of defense of flynt in this group.
there are multiple references demonstrating flynt's racist portrayals, offensive not only to women of color but also men. i refuse to link vile content in this group. but can provide a link. From there one can access some examples (if necessary).

http://feministlawprofs.law.sc.edu/?p=1019

all of this is just to say, i'd like to respectfully request loosewilly, that you kindly refrain from further commentary that is supportive of flynt here.

there are too few spaces on this board where i feel safe in not having aspects of my identity slurred, and i'd like to see this area continue to be such a place. i see defense of flynt on any level as a slur against my gender and my ethnicity. and i don't want to see that in this group. at all.

no disrespect intended, but i would appreciate it if you could be respectful of that. i think the comments above preceding mine are clear in that they share offense of flynt. demanding "explanations" of WHY seems at best inappropriate, at worst insensitive to members of this group.

... and I will STFU and piss off to somewhere else.

I thought there was a difference between examining what was said in one specific instance and defense of Flynt's qualities as a human being. If even that is disturbing to you, here, then I can shut up and leave you the safety and security of a subject-vetoable zone.

Adieu.

:toast:

Where ya been?? :hi:

its sad what rubbish some on the "left" will support if it helps them in their cause of tearing down this president and democrats in general.

:hi: ...Uzybone!
how are you?

i agree that it is ugly. what's worse is, seeing things like this in the face of defense of mr. flynt. then progressives wonder why women and people of color feel like they don't matter to the dem party.

:hi:

:pals::hi:

...for asking.

just because I posted that doesn't mean I agree with Flynt. I don't. And I don't appreciate being called two faced, Frenchie. That's bullshit, and you don't know me. Period.