Concerning Draft - Up or Down

More against than for by 55% to 45%. I voted "For the Draft", but it had nothing to do with the current occupation of Iraq. It reflects a long-range outlook on what kind of military that I believe works the best. The recent appeal from the Army to offer 40k bonuses to maintain an adequate force level is disgraceful to me. It surely reflects a force that has been over-extended and misused. I am of the opinion that the all volunteer army is not only unfair, but has led to the misuse. If the broad segments of our society had a personal connection to world events that involve our military forces, I believe that we, as a nation, would have a more sobering disposition to go to war.

Then, too, it is no secret that our current military composition is filled with many kids, who were desperate for work and a steady job of any kind. I don't think it is healthy or moral to use these poor kids to sacrifice their lives because other kids can afford not to.

How many times have you heard a pro-war chickenhawk justify the current quagmire in Iraq and the deaths of our soldiers, by asserting that our troops get paid to risk their lives? This infuriates me.

The present all-volunteer army has become twisted into a tool for partisan politics. The Armed Forces are not supposed to be political at all. I ask you to look at the example of the Pat Tillman friendly fire death and the cover-up. The complete military command structure has been filled with Neo-con idealogues and this has led to this kind of public mistrust. Now, we have been reduced to "Blackwater mercenaries misrepresenting American values acting outside of the rules of the UCMJ and the Geneva Convention.

My vote "For a draft" is not linked to ending this current debacle in Iraq. It is for a fair and long-term vision of a healthy, apolitical military force that is not subjected to consecutive remote tours of duty in a combat zone and the reinstatement of the old G.I. bill for education, and that includes a sense of sacrifice for all. I may be completely wrong and off-base with these arguments, but I am a veteran and this is my outlook on the Draft. The original poll was about the Draft and not whether someone supports this war. I don't.

I don't ever want another peacetime draft. I know how easy it is to get bogged down in wars of political convenience when unprincipled men have access to an unlimited amount of kids to send into hell.

The only thing that is keeping us out of Syria and Iran is the lack of a draft.

I have not changed my opinion, I don't support this war, but I support a Draft for the same reasons you mentioned. Believe it or not when we had the draft we had a higher degree of soldier than we do today.

I find it disgusting that there are people on here who support a return to military slavery.

So I guess your one of those people who figures that it is everybody else who needs to serve,, just not you, that way you get a free ride and only fools have to join the military.

comment about military slavery. It is important to many of us to maintain a strong military defense, not just for the present but the future as well. This should be a shared responsibility of all citizens. There seems to be a popular reaction of "Not me" or "Not my kids." But, this has led to the sorry state that our military is in now. The military requires a sense of general sacrifice, not a general selfishness. You have your opinion, but military service is not slavery to me. I am thankful and proud for the experience. AND grateful and proud that I served with people who came from all backgrounds and segments of society.

in retrospect I beat the draft..took me 22 yrs to do it but I beat it.

Most of us from that era were just average young people. We did not grow up as political, military, or activists. But after all was said and done, I felt good about my military experience. I have old friends from that era that cannot share that bond and feel good that so many of us can. It was a time of growing as a young person, and as a nation. It was an experience, for sure.

From what my father told me, the army of the early 1970's was filled with a lower quality soldier than we have today.

I don't care what the excuses.

If I draft is passed in this country, I will participate in a campaign to undermine it, to encourage noncompliance, and, of course, to get rid of it, as well as to defeat any politicians who voted for it.

jobs upon threat of punishment including execution in some circumstances.

I'll support a draft only when military personnel are given the option of resigning from duty with an honorable discharge rather than obey orders sending them to fight and possibly die in an illegal war.

It passed the house on October 10, 2002 by a vote of 296-133, and the Senate on October 11 by a vote of 77-23. It was signed into law by President Bush on October 16.

You may believe that we were lied to, but Congress approved of the war in 2002, and it is a legal war under the law of the United States.

It was preemptive ... and that's forbidden by the U.N. Charter ... and it was based on clearly fraudulent claims.

Even beyond that, we've violated the Geneva Conventions regarding treatment of civilians in an occupied country.

We've become a nation of cowards and outlaws.

but it does not declare war.

My DU Journal is amply populated with my posts on this subject - both describing my reasoning in favor of a draft and my reasoning regarding the arguments against it.

Please ... read it ... http://journals.democraticunderground.com/TahitiNut

From my own experience as a (very reluctant!) draftee in '68, I must reiterate my strong belief that the LAST thing we need are people fighting wars who LIKE wars! That way there lie more My Lais.

Too much of the 'thinking' is narrow and simplistic 'A causes B' ... when I believe that we're facing (perhaps too late) the choice between a democracy and a full-fledged autocracy. In both directions conscription exists ... but at least in the former direction it's part and parcel of self-governance. Every time I hear people argue that 'they' will conscript 'us' to die for 'their' corruption, I hear not just a presumptive surrender and abdication of democratic self-governance but an acceptance and embrace of exactly that. No... a draft isn't in and of itself an assurance of democratic self-governance.

Conscription will (must?) exist under either condition - we're NOT a small nation with solely domestic interests. We face the prospect of having a global military for the foreseeable future. If we're EVER to reassert and maintain popular, democratic sovereignty over the deployment of those forces, let alone embark on demilitarization, then FULL PARTICIPATION is absolutely essential. It's a co-requisite ... NOT simply a 'cause' of it.

In my view, there's NOTHING the autocrats could've done better to get the People off their backs and leave them free to weaken our democratic self-governance than deactivate the draft and sell people on the notion that they didn't have to get involved. A 'professional military' (or one with "elite Republican Guards") is an abomination in a democratic nation, imho.


I support Universal National Service - everyone - gay, straight, male, female - including the military, the Peace Corps, VISTA, the Public Health Service, etc.

Lacking that, I support a draft - everyone - gay, straight, male, female - with maximum equity and very few deferments if any. The post-1970 lottery-based draft, including females, is satisfactory.

Please notice that none of the subject lines on this post even mention Peace..?? It is a good word to use because the neocons hate it.

Peace would be the result of TALK OF A DRAFT. All the trash who love bush and war and have never done anything for our country would become peace loving hippies right after they cleaned up the shirt filled drawers if a draft were every instituted.

I went down to the campus and burned my draft card a couple months earlier. At the induction center they could have cared less, they had me by then. I didn't like the draft, but I ended up spending 15 years in the service. I liked the travel and lifestyle.

One thing I remember clearly was that when the last draftees left we lost a lot of good men. They had a higher education than most of the regular army and for the most part served well. It was the McNamara boys who gummed up the works. We actually had some who couldn't read.

I think that a draft would create a situation where our youth are put in harms way for bogus reasons. There is too much room for abuse by the administration. Hell, I'd rather fight them here. I got my own arsenal and know how to use it. But then we all know that is all just empty rhetoric on their part. They may have a small number of terrorist raising hell here, but regular troops, never happen.