The notion of the intrinsic vs. the extrinsic theism.

If you are an atheist, muslim, christian for intrinsic reasons.. rather than for what you can get out of it socially - (be it power, cover for bullying & hate, to fit it, to fit out, etc.) that is what I think is important to distinguish.

Though I admit I am again using a broad brush. People do things for many reasons. It is not as if people who are very extroverted don't belong on the planet either or are necessarily wrong. Or that the community of belonging to one group or another is not a great ideal.

But is it not clear that someone like Rove or the neocons - who admittedly use religion as a means of control - are going to churches and encouraging people to belong to American Churches for the wrong reasons?

It makes a lot of presumptions. The first one is that all believers see the tenants of belief in the same light. Secondly and more troubling is it presumes that believers cannot be bad people.

There is more than enough latitude in the doctrine of the dominant religions to allow for people like Rove and Cheney all the while maintaining their own sense of piety. Cripe if people convinced of their own righteousness could form an army of children and march them off to certain death in the crusades I would say that the actions of Rove et all are mild in comparison.

It may simply be that the reason they use the churchs to maintain control is because they believe they are the seats of moral authority on this planet. That is something that many conservative believers will simply tell you outright. They are convinced it is impossible to be a good and moral person without the guidance and moral authority of the church. That many of their numbers rise to power and use the clout of that belief to their advantage should not be caause of denunciation of their adherance to the beliefs. In fact it is all the more demonstrative of why the seperation of Church and State are so vital.

leadership in some cases is a problem. Again extrinsic. I agree it paints with a broad brush but it is an interesting concept nevertheless. So much bad action by religious types gets a pass when it should not.

I like the religious leaders who don't believe they can lead and be shitloaded rich. I like the ones who do not have "profit pulpits" but put every bit of extra into helping out. As they should.