Celebrating the Winter Solstice for non Christians

For non-Christians the holiday season can be lonely as they often feel left out of the celebrations. There is no reason to be. Many Christmas traditions pre-date Christianity. No one knows when Christ was born or even if he is a historical person, but the early Christian church took the Roman holiday of the Saturnalia and Christianized it by substituting the date as the birth date of Jesus Christ.

North of Italy in Europe, the Gauls and Germans celebrated the winter solstice. In the snowy cold of winter, celebrations involved decorating fir trees, burning yule logs and exchanging of gifts as well as banqueting with friends to break up the winter gloom and herald the hope of spring that was coming.

So we non-Christians can celebrate the winter solstice and our celebrations won’t be much different than those of the Christians. Bake your cookies and mince pies. Prepare your plum pudding if that’s what you do traditionally. Decorate your tree. I use an artificial one. Most of them look like the real thing and they are less prone to catching fire. Put up wreathes, bows of holly and mistletoe.

Wrap your presents in bright paper and ribbons. This year my presents will be homemade as will my Season’s Greetings cards. Have your eggnog and bake your ham, turkey or goose. The European custom of having an open house with sweets and eggnog on Christmas Eve is a nice custom for those who can do it. Hang your stockings over the fireplace and burn a Yule log in it.

But the best part of Christmas for kids is Santa Claus. Although Christians have tried to claim he is St. Nicolas, Father Winter and his elves have been around for millennium delivering presents to good children everywhere in a sleigh pulled by reindeer.

So you won’t be displaying a crèche, attending Nativity plays at your Church, or singing carols, but there is at least a CD’s worth of modern songs for the holidays out there to sing or play in the background that celebrate the season without a religious sentiment intruding in it.

The best message of the holiday season is universal. It is peace on earth and I think Mother Earth would agree.

Mods: I was going to post this in the Atheists and Agnostics Forum, but I couldn't find it. If we do in fact have one, please move this post there.

We do everything -- tree, presents, stockings, wreathes. We just
don't have a nativity scene. It's pretty easy to cut out the Jesus
stuff. Just like they tacked it on to the original holiday.

have solstace parties. They burn big bonfires as part of the celebration, and to remind everyone that longer days are soon to come.

There are many Celtic "Christmas" CD's out there. I appreciate Christmas music because it's lovely, not because I believe in the myth.
I still send cards as well, but with totally non-religious measages.

I personally think many of these songs predate Christianity and the lyrics were rewritten sometimes after the Celts became Christians.

here in my little small town in the frozen north that takes place at the most eastern most point where there is a lighthouse. Music supplied by local musicians and dancing. Irish harpists and pipe players amongst them. I have to say that for a small town, we sometimes are quite diversified.

It certainly is something to celebrate in places where the days are short indeed, and the dark begins to arrive at around 3:30 or so. Hooray--the days will get longer! Celebrate

1 Most ancient societies celebrated the winter solstice, connecting the sun to a god who stood still for three days and then commenced to go the other way. Most of the Christian celebrations latched on to these celebrations including aletering the birth of their god, the baby Jesus, to the same time, hoping to reign in the pagans to their religion.

Saturnalia was a festive event amongst pagans. Quite bawdy according to what I have read.

I know it is normally around December 22nd or so...anyone know the exact date for this year?

But you don't have to celebrate on that day, since with families, it might be difficult. You can light your log and drink your nog on that day leading up to the 25th. What's important is starting your own family traditions.

My family is all fundy Christian and, except for the children, they all stopped celebrating "Christmas" years and years ago because it is a Pagan holiday. Of course, for them, that is anathema; but I don't get it. What's wrong with celebrating the solstice--there's no prohibition about it in the Bible that I can find--why would there be?

In any case, I've found it to be a wonderful tradition. I like bringing the outdoors inside for the winter. I live in a loft space with high wood beam rafters. I hang pine boughs on them--which you can often get for practically nothing as trim off from xmax trees. It smells wonderful. On the actual evening I light candles everywhere. A few times I've had a celebrations where I've invited up to 30 people--with dinner (dark rye bread, borscht, roast beef, yams and a vegetable). I have everyone bring one gift (something inexpensive that is a delight to the senses). It's a lot of fun and touches something quite ancient inside.

I celebrate the ascension of Saturn, the beautiful slice of moon at sunrise, every sunset, particularly here in Wyoming, and all the rest.

in December in Loveland if you can make that.

PM Me if you want details.

Pcat

a real time thing this year. Our community garden will have a bonfire, we'll sing songs about the sun, we'll have the live tree in the garden and the plastic one at home (hate killing trees for that)
What the point of the celebration is - the return of the light - and all the other winter hollydays in different religions are based on it.
What I love about celebrating solstice is that it matters not if you are naughty or nice, sun will return anyway....Unless of course W blows this planet off course.

...than the traditional xian? I am no more interested in celebrating xmas than I am purim, Ramadan, or Cadlemas for the simple reason that I'm not any of those religions. I have no issue with anyone else celebrating them, but I think it's a bit presumptious of a pagan to assume that this holiday is so much worthier of celebrating than any one of a million holidays celebrated by other religions. I find insulting the suggestion that I should try to fit in by feigning interest in ethnic and religious ceremonies that have no meaning to me.

:grr:

On the other hand if you have festivities celebrating the seasons of the year, why is this any different than the Fourth of July? Lighten up, people need to get together every so often to have a celebration. Just because these occasions have been usurped by religions doesn't mean that the holiday season can't be enjoyed by everyone side by side but not necessarily together.

Your entire justification for fake-xmas is the fact that it was a pagan holiday before the xians got their hands on it.

The 4th of July is not, nor has it ever been, a religious holiday (despite what some Freepers might think). And although we certainly don't celebrate it now, we still don't celebrate India Day or Bastille Day. Why? Because we aren't Indian or French.

Of course people need to have parties, and of course, people can use whatever justification they wish. I, however, find the suggestion that, as an atheist, I will feel "lonely" and "left-out" unless I play at theistic traditions to be highly insulting. It's as though a Republican came onto DU and offered tips to Democrats on how to pay lip-service to W in order to not feel left-out of Thanksgiving celebrations.

in my post it was a pagan holiday. I said it was a season that people in the colder northern climates celebrated to brighten up the gloomy cold dark winter. If they happened to also worship pagan gods, no doubt their priesthood laid their religious beliefs over their folk ways just like the Christians did afterwards.

I also said non-Christians and that includes Jews, Muslims and anyone else who would like to celebrate the holiday without worshipping a Christian god could do so. Since this post was not welcome in General Discussion, I thought more open-minded, free-thinking athiests and agnostics wouldn't mind it. Apparently I am wrong.

One of the reasons religion has such a stranglehold on the populace is because people feel socially isolated by not wanting to join them yet feeling left out if they don't. If you personally would rather be left alone, it's your personal choice. No one says you have to. If you are a professional like a nurse or doctor, Christmas day is a nice time to volunteer to cover a shift for someone who may want to celebrate Christmas in their church and with their family.

Many Christmas traditions pre-date Christianity. No one knows when Christ was born or even if he is a historical person, but the early Christian church took the Roman holiday of the Saturnalia and Christianized it by substituting the date as the birth date of Jesus Christ.

Again, I have to ask: are you for real?

I also said non-Christians and that includes Jews, Muslims and anyone else who would like to celebrate the holiday without worshipping a Christian god could do so.

Wow.

FWIW, I'm Latina. Maybe you'd like to take this opportunity to tell me that I can use a different accent when surrounded by non-Hispanics- you know, so I'd feel less "lonely" and "left out"

One of the reasons religion has such a stranglehold on the populace is because people feel socially isolated by not wanting to join them yet feeling left out if they don't.

I fail to see how atheists involving themselves in theistic traditions does anything to remedy that. I can't imagine anything more depressing than singing xmas carols while trimming the xmas tree, desperately trying to keep cognitive disonance at bay and hoping nobody notices I'm different.

Here I thought you were upset with all things wicca and you really are upset with Catholicism. Your mother no doubt has a mixture of the virgin mary stuff and really dealing with the bruja, I'll bet. Yo soy Latina tambien.

I was talking to another audience. But yeah, I can see why you are upset with that part of the Latino culture. There is so much superstition, however, they aren't running our government, like the fundies are here in the USA. Not only that, the fundies really upset me because of their racism.

I would really regard your mother as I regarded mine. If this makes her happy, fine. I just made sure she didn't give them too much money for the holy water and spells.

On edit: I think you make too much of your accent. You should try to gather a group of your like-thinking friends around you for a celebration of whatever you would like. Sometimes while you are waiting around for an invitation, you should be sending them out to those other people who are waiting for an invitation.

Neither of my parents are Catholics, and I'm not upset at my culture, but at high-handed, racist theists. But thanks for playing.

I was trying to reach out in friendship and you were insulted so I'm not playing anymore. You are just ornery and looking for spite where there isn't any. I will not reply to any of your posts anymore. I don't waste my time with unpleasant people now that I am nearing the end of my life.

On edit: By the way what gives you a mandate to insult Catholics? My mother was a religious Catholic and her religion gave her much comfort before she died. Now I'm insulted.

so, I fail to see the ofensive element here. It's entirely up to you if you let this astonomic occurence have meaning for you or not. No one was trying to co-opt you into anything here, people were exchanging stories of what they do. If there was any proselytising, I certainly missed it.
I for one , believe in celebrating one's life, so I chose to make it a holliday. Is it OK with you? I am surprised, really at the tone of your posts.
I thought I'd find here a mellow, intellectual, neurosis-free, open communication - but maybe I am in the wrong place after all.

It's the idea that as atheists we have to celebrate in a way that emulates theists, else we're "lonely and don't "fit in".

I don't think the original poster was trying to proseltyize, but rather she was ignorantly assuming that not celebrating xmas = being miserable (the same way she assumed that being Hispanic means being Catholic). That offends me and yes, it angers me.

No one is telling you how to celebrate whatever holidays you wish. If you need an excuse for a party, then have at it. But if you're going to make broad assumptions about folks based on their lack of religion, race, or anything else, then don't be surprised when you are corected.

"not to feel lonely" "just to celebrate" "to spite others and feel superior"
Sometimes our motivations are more revealing than our actions

Sometimes our motivations are more revealing than our actions

So very true.

Partying is something humans do because we are an affiliative, gregarious species. Celebrating natural events such as the planting, the harvest, the solstices, and the equinoxes, gives us focus and coordination in our celebrations.

The religions always co-opt institutions that are are secularly successful. We shouldn't stop eating food because theists have religious feasts. And we shouldn't let the theists lock us out of the most human pleasures, like singing, because they have put a claim on them.

Astronomy and agriculture are the most frequent origins for holidays. (OK, there are historical events too.) We shouldn't let them deprive us of human pleasure because they have adopted them.

Hey, aren't there any hedonists around here?

--IMM

We're as hard headed as they come when it comes to religion. We celebrate nothing but civil and natural events. (We celebrate Juneteenth, 19th Amendment Day, Constitution Day; we celebrate the cycles of the planet with star gazing and astronomical observations; and we celebrate happy nothing's day.)

It's a great time to take the scope out.

Pcat

But that's not a bad idea. We don't choose to emulate the theists in anyway, but we celebrate the hell out of New Years Eve.

I was at Pyramid Lake, NV for the Leonids one year. Having grown up at sea level, it was the most amazing thing I've ever seen.

Here in northern MI we have much cause to celebrate the Solstice. Winter is long and dark.

As one who grew up a Christian, and whose kids always celebrated Christmas, I never really stopped the holiday traditions. It is so very easy to take religion out of it, as we have done.

We are pretty practical and I enjoy buying things for my family. We have fires and bake cookies and enjoy being warm and together while it's cold outside.

I think your post was very nice Cleita. :toast:

Julie

Thanks. There was no malice intended.

it's informative and fun.
Maybe some here are not yet in the place they are supposed to be emotionally and take it on others. There wasn't anything in your post to call it.
I might also remind people that this group is supposed to be for both agnostics and atheists - and any quest for primacy of either group is, shall we say.....

It'd be the summer solstice here. Besides, this non-Christian never feels left out of Christmas celebrations. Being an atheist, I really don't mind too much if I get caught up in bouts of nativity scening and carols. As long as no-one tries to drag me to church, I'm easy. What I celebrate anyway is not having to go to work for between 1-3 weeks (yay!), having my family all together for at least one day of the year even if we all start bickering within an hour, and having endless excuses to have bbq's. For me holidays with a religious theme are there to be exploited. I've gone through my desk diary at work and pinpointed every holiday for every religion and demanded that I have a day off to celebrate each one! ;)

Ho ho Ho

Violet...

then...Me, I grew in a 100% atheist world, tree, presents and some Father Frost "official celebrations". I never thought of the solstice. I have good childhood memories of the tree and once I realized the significance of the solstice, I felt it added to it. You won't believe where I got it: in a church - St Marks Church in east Village had a Solstice celebration concert - real time. A japanese blowing instruments (kahukachees?) - and the sun shone in at 9 AM as the beautiful music was playing. It was impressive and then the priest spoke a few words about the significance of the solstice and how all the winter hollidays in different beliefs are based on this return of the light celebration. I decided I can have the cake and eat it too. So, I've been celebrating solstice ever since, a different fun way each year.

even if you are celebrating a European holiday. It reminds me of when I was in Texas on Thanksgiving. Texans around the San Antonio and Gulf of Mexico area go on picnics on Thanksgiving. The weather is just right then and there aren't too many bugs. By Christmas it's too stormy for picnicking but Thanksgiving is just right.

and my son always knew "santa" as a great guy that brought presents for kids all over and we use this time of year to get our son to donate time or presents to the needy. There is no need to mention religion or church we just celebrate our family.

The Christmas Holiday itself can be enjoyed for it's own sake; being with close friends and family and appreciating them is what it's all about for me. No need to bring a god of any variety into it.

and really enjoyed reading about the ways all of you celebrate the holidays.
The happiness each of finds comes from a positive attitude, doesn't it? People who are not comfortable with themselves tend to believe they don't 'fit in' during the holidays.
I, for one, have never had that problem. It was, to be honest, a little awkward when my husband and I were first married; my devout Catholic in-laws were a bit hesitant of me and didn't understand my not bowing my head when they said grace. My mother-in-law would give me a quick stare, then another glance at my husband. I could tell what she was thinking.
They are comfortable with who they are, and so am I. It's funny, but they are the ones who had to adjust. I was always respectful of their religious beliefs but it was harder for them to accept a free thinker into the family. After 26 years, it is hard to even remember those times, we all get along so well.
Last Christmas, my mother-in-law, while saying grace, looked over at me, smiled and gave me a wink. We all 'fit in'.

Are you people sure you're not pagan? Paganism is all about celebrating nature, as you describe.

preclude being agnostic or atheist.

http://www.angelfire.com/ego/pdf/ng/pan/sci-pan.html#atha

http://www.pantheism.net/paul/index.htm
"Scientific or natural pantheism is a modern form of pantheism that deeply reveres the universe and nature and joyfully accepts and embraces life, the body and earth, but does not believe in any supernatural deities, entities or powers."