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Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-13-07 05:46 PM
Original message
OT - Obama
Did you see this? An announcement this Monday would make sense....
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-13-07 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yeah, it would feed right into the PR hype he has been getting. Comparisons to MLK.
I wish him luck. My personal opinion is he is being used by the party to energize the minority vote which HRC could inadvertently play off of. I don't think she would choose him as a VP, I don't think they mesh together well, but I could see the Clinton's taking advantage of what hype he received.
Frankly, I am sorry he is doing this. I think his ego got to him. He he lost his bid to become a US rep a while back, then he went back into the state senate for two years. He then seized the opportunity to run for the US Senate. He won the Dem primary because the front runner has domestic and ethics issues. And, he won the general election because the front runner was accused of sexual, domestic and child abuse charges by his estranged wife. The Repubs brought in Alan Key's the total nut case to run against Obama and the rest is history. A Senator by default.
Then we have his in experience in foreign affairs and his short term in the Senate.
Honestly, I don't understand the hype around him. What actually makes him so great? One speech that sounded good? I have listened to him and he mouths other people's ideas.
I see him as nothing more than the results of a great PR campaign. What happens when he has to prove himself? Then the bottom will fall out from under him. Perhaps, a VP slot, but I certainly won't jump on the Obama band wagon because the media tells me I should.

Senator Kerry, is still the man I intend on working for and voting for.
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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-13-07 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Rumor has it, that's why Rev. Al Sharpton is running
Edited on Sat Jan-13-07 06:45 PM by politicasista
With him now running, he could split the AA vote between Obama and Hillary, with Hillary taking it (cause of Bill), though Al always sounds like he doesn't care for the Clintons.

What makes him so special? Well, Mr. and Mrs. Obama made the Cover of the February issue of Ebony Magazine, an urban publication, describing their love story. Though it briefly talked about his "possible" run for the presidency, the interview focused more on them as a couple and Obama as a husband and father.

Their story portrays hope and broad, crossover appeal outside their race. And like JK and Momma T, they have a beautiful family.


Hope that helps.
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-13-07 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Actually, his home life may be wonderful, but that is not substantial enough
for why he is viewed as though he walks on water. I read his bio and he is smart and generally honest, but I do not particularly see him as a leader.
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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-13-07 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. It's his personality, looks, demeanor, and voice
Edited on Sat Jan-13-07 07:04 PM by politicasista
and charisma. It reminds people of JFK, maybe RFK. Plus, the Democrats think he has all this to "motivate the base." :shrug:
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-13-07 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. Also, don't forget the guaranteed Oprah endorsement
And the fact that the media is absolutely in love with him.

I like Obama, and I think he has political talents. It's just that he's unproven, and has been a bit of a disappointment in his first 2 years as a freshman senator.
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MBS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-13-07 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. I've been disappointed in his senate years, too
(My cousin just got me worked up about Obama's bankruptcy-bill vote, which in turn reminded me of some of his other votes that disappointed me . . . I was gung-ho for him in his Senate race, and I cheered wildly like everyone else at the DNC in 2004, but since then. . well, he's been a bit of a disappointment. Much of his voting record has seemed surprisingly cautious, corporate, conservative, especially compared to Kerry's consistent courage these last two years. . . And, yes, he's still unproven, and especially he has not yet faced the pressures of the smear machine, the lies, distortions. . . I just don't feel Obama is ready yet to be president, especially with our country in the state it's in right now. When you compare him with JK, with Kerry's deep, broad forward-looking leadership on the environment, for instance-- a record of 30-35 years' standing: Obama has NO experience in this stuff. Obama is building credentials in foreign policy, but compared with the breadth, depth, and track record of JK in this area. . . well, there's just no comparison. I do think that Obama has the potential to be a very good president some day. But not now. Not with the number and seriousness and variety of problems facing us right now. We really need someone who can walk into the White House tomorrow and get right to work. Our country is on the brink of disaster: no time for "growing into the job", no time for learning curves. Like a lot of people here, Obama would probably be my second choice if JK chose (gasp) not to run, but, as far as I'm concerned , it's a looong drop from JK to Barack. at least at this stage in Obama's career.We really really need someone with experience and depth of experience, as well as judgment and compassion and openness to change and growth. JK is the only candidate out there who really fills the bill for me.

I'm already going insane and the 2008 election hasn't even started yet.
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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-13-07 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. His foreign policy responses are shallow
I have had a chance to hear his opinions a lot lately because there is a lot of 'flavor of the month' about him. His oft repeated phrase that the war is not a Democratic problem or a Republican problem but an American problem sounds good on the first try, but it wears thin. Ahm, the problem in Iraq is secratrian violence, disputes within a nation that can't be resolved by the normal political process. Obama's use of the 'Can't we all just get along' phrase in terms of Iraq is starting to grate on me. It is starting to sound downright weird.

Ahm, we are in trouble in Iraq because we all can't get along and simplistic phrases that assume a commonality that isn't there are not helpful or insightful. And someone was responsible for this war and we as a nation have to examine that in order to learn how not to let it happen again. Obama's rhetoric is shallow and deceptive and I hope he starts talking with more insight and depth soon. This stuff is wearing really thin.
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 01:20 AM
Response to Reply #13
21. I concur.
Sounds good versus doing some "real" good. I will also add that I have not heard him say anything original in terms of ideas or strategies regarding the war and even on some other issues. He seems to right now be the walking talking spokesperson for the Democratic positions on issues. I am trying to keep an open mind and do some research on him. So far his people has homogenized a lot of it on line.
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carpe diem Donating Member (769 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-13-07 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Obama voted NAY on the bankruptcy bill...
Edited on Sat Jan-13-07 11:01 PM by jg82567
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-13-07 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. Obama voted against the bankruptcy bill
He did vote for the tort reform bill, however.

I've been more disappointed with him on Iraq and just different issues like Alito where he failed to show some courage and spend some political capital.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-13-07 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. I like him a lot
His Monday Night Football appearance was politically brilliant and perfectly executed. I think JK would make the better president and truly understands the political dynamics better, but I completely see why people like Obama too. I knew he would be the first black President when he spoke at the convention, I just didn't expect him to run this year. Well, that would be because I thought JK would be the incumbent, but you get what I mean. I'd be happy to support him if that's what the people decide.
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MBS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-13-07 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. I'm with you,
I also am sorry he's (apparently) decided to do this, and I agree that his ego must have gotten swollen out of proportion. One of the attractive things about him is (or used to be) his self-deprecation . My hope has been that his intelligence (combined with his wife's equal intelligence, combined with common sense) would lead him to (what for me is) the obvious conclusion, that he's not ready. If he decides to run, it's a sign to me that he's lost his moorings.
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carpe diem Donating Member (769 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-13-07 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #3
15. i think he's running now because he's caught a wave of positive...
Edited on Sat Jan-13-07 11:10 PM by jg82567
public opinion and press and there is no guarantee that it will still be there in 2012 or 2016 or twenty years from now...as much as people love him now they may hate his guts just as much down the road and he will have to look back and wonder what might have been... I'm sure he's aware of his short-comings experience wise, but he's got the hot hand NOW and it might not be so hot later. If it's all just fluff and there's nothing of substance to sustain it, he will be brought down to earth quickly enough...but the only way to find out for sure, is to get out there with the other boys and girls and see if he's got what it takes...
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #15
20. Hi jg82567. Welcome to the JK forum.
I agree with your assessment for why Obama is probably going to throw his hat in the ring. My list is: #1 Kerry, #2 Gore and #3 Obama. So I'm not anti-Obama per se; I just don't think he is the most qualified to be president, as we have two others who have far more experience. And for me, Kerry is the most qualified and has shown courage and leadership throughout a long career in public life.

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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #15
22. If he is as great as the press has made him out to be, another four or eight years will only
Edited on Sun Jan-14-07 01:25 AM by wisteria
add to the real respect and admiration people would have for him. Now, I am just left wondering why the press has chosen him to anoint and shower with so much positive press.
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carpe diem Donating Member (769 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 01:50 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. the first part of your statement holds true...
...whether he runs this time out or not, so why not test the waters...the worst that'll happen is he'll lose like most of the people who run...and what better preparation for a later run, than getting a first hand feel for what political combat at this level is really like...and, i also think that he's running to position himself as a vice-presidential contender, he needs to prove himself in these waters to be seriously considered for VP by whomever gets the nomination...
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Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #23
30. All true, I agree n/t
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 03:30 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. Gore ran in '88
Didn't hurt him any. And who knows, maybe if he'd won the primary, we'd have won and never had to deal with these Bush's directly at all. Maybe he would have done something about global warming and Katrina would never have happened. Who knows. Everybody said Gore was too young and inexperienced to run too.
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Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #22
29. Most likely reason
Ratings! The first woman vs. the first black, not to mention we may also have Richardson, the first latino. All that is missing is for Barney Frank to throw his hat into the ring :-)! Oh, the fun that we will have dissing all that! Ah, and a mormon too!
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Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #3
28. Exactly...
... I would also be disappointed in him if he runs (which seems more likely with each passing day). I was hoping that his obvious intelligence + a sense for what's right and what's wrong will show him that he should not do this NOW. Maybe under different circumstances, but not NOW. If indeed he decides differently, he will go down quite a few notches in my view, for what it's worth.... I understand the hype, there is a difficult to define quality about him that makes him special, I supposed it is what is called charisma, that was was obvious in the famous 04 speech, but usually it is more subtle. And he gives (gave?) me a sense of earnestness, of actually believing and meaning what he says, that is extremely rare in politicians. The color of his skin aside, I used to view him as a kind of younger JK, with possibly a way about him that makes him more accessible and more endearing to a larger number of people. But id Kerry foes not run, and Obama does, he might not be my first preference, I think I actually prefer Dodd, many of the things that would make Kerry so appropriate for the job, also apply to him (unfortunately so do many of the stupid arguments against Kerry). Anybody here giving Dodd a serious thought?
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whometense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. Me.
So far, he's my second choice if Kerry decides not to run - for all the rasons you mentioned. Plus, that he's a grownup. I want the next president to be mature.
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Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. The grownup was implied :-)
but this kind of applies to all dem contenders. Obama is definitely a grownup, in spite of his relative inexperience and relatively young age, Hillary also is a grown-up (growing older does not always improve you, though :-)).
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whometense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. True,
but to my mind Clintonian power games put an asterisk next to her maturity. So I think my definition of grownup is kind of picky. I also mean grownup in terms of no triangulation, no game-playing. I mean someone who is so sure of themself as a person that they can say straight out what they think and weather the repercussions. HRC doesn't meet that qualification, but Kerry, Dodd, and maybe Obama do. I don't have a good enough sense of Obama yet to know.
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Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. 100% agree n/t
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MBS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. me too n/t
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-13-07 06:46 PM
Response to Original message
6. It would make sense if he decides to run.
While I think he would be better off waiting more, he will be my favorite should Kerry not run.

While I disagree with him on a few points (is there somebody I agree 100 %), he is certainly the one who I like the more in all those who will be running (Gore comes before, but Gore will not run).

While he is new in national politics, he has had a long experience as a civil rights activist and a state legislator, and contrarely to others, he really has an idea of what foreign policy has. In addition, if you look at the recent ethics votes as well as the previous ethics bill, he was one of the three Democrats refusing to vote for a useless bill, with Kerry and Feingold.

Of course, he misses the experience that Kerry has, but I see him as far ahead of the rest of the crowd. So, if Kerry does not run or does not succeed, I really would prefer him to the rest of the crowd (and he has been at this point one of ONLY ones who has not indulged in the most popular operation the Democrats have: attacking Kerry).
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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-13-07 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Good analysis n/t
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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-13-07 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
9. Civil rights leaders' take on Obama vs. Clinton
Edited on Sat Jan-13-07 07:28 PM by politicasista
Snip (from what I posted above):

Obama's charm lost on America's black activists

Tony Allen-Mills, New York


HE is a media darling, a paparazzi target and a source of inspiration for millions of Democrats who dream of retaking the White House in 2008. But Senator Barack Obama, the charismatic African-American who is shaking up the presidential primary race, has not impressed some of America’s most powerful black activists.
Civil rights leaders who have dominated black politics for much of the past two decades have pointedly failed to embrace the 45-year-old Illinois senator who is considering a bid to become America’s first black president.

At a meeting of activists in New York last week, the Rev Jesse Jackson, the first black candidate to run for president, declined to endorse Obama. “Our focus right now is not on who’s running, because there are a number of allies running,” Jackson said.

The Rev Al Sharpton, the fiery New York preacher who joined the Democratic primary race in 2004, said he was considering another presidential run of his own. And Harry Belafonte, the calypso singer who became an influential civil rights activist, said America needed to be “careful” about Obama: “We don’t know what he’s truly about.”

The unexpected coolness between the old civil rights guard and the new Democratic hopeful has added an intriguing twist to the budding rivalry between Obama and Senator Hillary Clinton, who hopes to emulate her husband, former president Bill Clinton, in attracting support from black voters.

The importance of the black vote — and the still-potent influence of community leaders such as Jackson and Sharpton — was underlined last week when both Clinton and Obama appeared at different times in New York at a black business conference organised by Jackson’s Rainbow/Push Coalition.

Clinton was applauded at a breakfast meeting for her attacks on President George W Bush’s economic policies of “tax breaks for the rich”. She added: “It is not rich Americans who have made this country great. It is hard-working Americans who have worked hard to lift themselves and their children up.”

Yet Obama’s charm and eloquence have not wooed the old guard.

“They are basically jealous,” said a Democratic strategist who has not yet decided which candidate he intends to support. “They’ve been toiling in the trenches for decades, and along comes this son of a Kenyan farmer and suddenly he’s measuring the drapes in the Oval Office.”

Sharpton, 52, is widely considered to have no better chance of winning the Democratic nomination than in 2004, when he never amassed more than a few percentage points in the polls but still made a national impact with his barnstorming performances in the televised primary debates.

When asked about Obama’s likely candidacy, the preacher, renowned for outrageous self-publicising antics, shrugged: “Right now we’re hearing a lot of media razzle-dazzle. I’m not hearing a lot of meat, or a lot of content. I think when the meat hits the fire, we’ll find out if it’s just fat, or if there’s some real meat there.”

Belafonte, who returns to British cinema screens shortly with a small role in Bobby, the new Emilio Estevez film about the assassination of Robert F Kennedy, also cast doubt on Obama’s credentials as a legitimate candidate.

There were contrasting views on the likely impact on Obama’s campaign of black competition or criticism. One analyst argued that a Sharpton candidacy would “put Obama on the spot” by forcing him to address awkward civil rights issues such as police brutality and racial profiling that he tends to steer clear of. One Democratic blogger argued that Sharpton was “just what the doctor ordered to keep Obama on the straight and narrow”.

Others suggested that Sharpton would help Clinton by dividing black primary voters. In one interview last week, Sharpton warned that Obama could not take the black vote for granted. A strategist pointed out, however, that Obama could emerge as a “model of reason, compared to that blowhard Al (Sharpton)”.


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-2546081,00.html


I like Obama, but this is the last thing we need for Democrats eating their own. :shrug:
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-13-07 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. This is the most ineresting thing I have read on the Obama race tonight. Thanks for posting. n/t
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carpe diem Donating Member (769 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-13-07 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. i honestly don't think this hurts Obama...
Edited on Sat Jan-13-07 11:25 PM by jg82567
In this country, having black activists out there saying "he's our man" would turn off substantial numbers of white voters and not just the 30% backwash as Stephen Colbert calls them...for the average, middle of the road, white voter to pull the lever for Obama or any black candidate for PRESIDENT of the US, they will have to feel an extraordinary level of comfort with him. A level of comfort they do not feel with the Jesse Jacksons and Al Sharptons and more activist black politicians...they are easily charicatured and marginalized by the RW controlled media. I even think that the people quoted in that article are aware of this and not wanting to give him the kiss of death by jumping up to support him, they are giving him the space he needs to gain the BROAD support from middle America that he must have to be a serious contender...
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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-13-07 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. No, I don't think it hurts him
Edited on Sat Jan-13-07 11:30 PM by politicasista
It's just tiring to see them (except Al) give the Clintons a free pass more than anything else.
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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #16
37. Welcome jg82567 to the JK Forum.
I don't dislike Sen. Obama, I just don't think he's ready. I think the idea that he could be running to be in a real race is a good one and I do think he would be at the top of any VP list for anyone who gets the nomination.

I think he has a lack of experience that shows. His speeches are starting to wear very thin on me because he doesn't have a lot of depth of thinking. This is not to say that he is not bright and capable, he is obviously both, as well as charismatic. I just don't find a whole lot of substance in what he is saying. A lot of this is because he is still a freshman Senator.

There have been comparisons between John F. Kennedy and Barack Obama in terms of them both being young and on a seeming fast-track to the White House. But Kennedy got elected to the House in 1946 and served 3 terms there and then 8 years in the Senate. He had 14 years of experience at the national level before he became President.

I don't see Sen. Obama as ready for either the White House yet. I could not vote for him yet, because I don't think he yet possesses what it takes to *be President.* I find him too shallow and too inexperienced. I saw him speak in person last summer and I was impressed with his skills and his speaking style. I think he could be ready in a few years. But I don't think he is ready now and this country is in bad, bad shape to be handing the keys to the car over to someone who just got their learner's permit.
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Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #9
34. Very interesting, thanks!
A question, related to something in the article you posted: isn't part of this lack of support the fact that his personal background is so completely different from Jackson at al? I do not mean so much the age difference, and therefore the different experiences, but the fact that he has such immediate african roots. His personal roots are very different from most black americans, also the way I see it he acts like that fact that he is black is not much more relevant than the fact that I have green eyes is to me. I do not think he can be accused of being "white on the inside", when he is at his best (again the famous speech, that was one unbelievable speech, goose bumps, teary eyes, etc.) he seems to be for the betterment of all the underprivileged, no matter the color, the creed, etc.), which is the way it should be IMHO. I must say I never was a bog Jesse Jackson or Sharpton fan, too much demagoguery in my view, Sharpton has a sparkling intelligence and a great sense of humor, great fun to listen to, but I still cannot forgive him for the Brawley (sp?) incident many years ago (I was living in NYC at the time, so it was really close to home).
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-13-07 11:44 PM
Response to Original message
19. i hope he does run
while JK is my favorite, i like him al ot better than those we so far know are running.
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whometense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 10:38 AM
Response to Original message
25. There's a rumor he'll announce on Oprah
Wednesday: http://politicalwire.com/archives/2007/01/14/will_obama_announce_on_oprah.html

And after reading this profile from the Chicago Tribune http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/chi-070114obama-story,0,6808064,print.story?coll=chi-sportscolumnistfront-hed
if half of what they say is true, who does this remind you of?

At the center is a 45-year-old political phenomenon who close associates say is prepared both to challenge the views he hears from advisers and to be challenged by them.


and this:

Obama also turns to a small circle of Harvard Law School classmates who have been friends for nearly 20 years.


and this:

The tone that Obama sets is different than most politicians in Washington, associates said.

"With Barack it's much more collegial than paternal," Butts said. "He doesn't require the Greek chorus to approve of his ideas."

But he does turn to his wife for a moral check.

Although she is a Harvard-educated lawyer who once worked for Mayor Daley, Michelle Obama doesn't play a day-to-day role in her husband's work, associates say. Instead, says Jarrett, she is the "true north" on his compass.

She says exactly what she thinks, friends say, and when others might tell Obama how to get elected, she reliably advises him not to calculate that way.

"She always asks Barack, `What do you think is the right thing to do?'

" said Jarrett. "

`Forget about what polls say. Do your homework. After you've done all the due diligence, what's the right thing to do?' "


After reading that, I'm starting to dream of a Kerry/Obama ticket.
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MBS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. a kerry/obama ticket would be dynamite n/t
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. It is one of my dream tickets too!
Edited on Sun Jan-14-07 11:03 AM by Mass
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Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #25
36. I stsrted dreaming of such a ticket a few...
... days after Black Tuesday 04, I kid you not. It would truly be wonderful.
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