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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 10:07 AM
Original message
Ouch! Neva Caucus intimdation story blogger slammed on DKos
Ouch indeed. This diary on DKos notes that blogger/radio host Taylor Marsh was caught, ah, fictionalizing the truth on her web site by the Las Vegas Sun. This is some ugly stuff.

You can read the diary at : http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/1/18/25812/2147/708/438638

They reference a story in the Las Vegas Sun at: http://www.lasvegassun.com/blogs/early-line/2008/jan/17/following-paris-las-vegas-incident/

The Sun has some questions for Taylor Marsh about this incident. Taylor Marsh has not responded to any of them yet.

The situation is not as black and white as liberal blogger Taylor Marsh says it is. Marsh did not respond to an e-mail seeking an interview. Here are some questions the Sun sought to ask her.

1) Marsh did not identify the eyewitness to the Paris incident as a Clinton supporter. Why not?

2) Marsh did not include any interview with the actual alleged victim, Sylvia Antuna. Why not? In an interview with the Sun, Antuna said the incident may have been more misunderstanding than intimidation.

3) Did Marsh attempt to reach the Culinary Union to get its response to the allegation? If not, why not?

4) Last year, Marsh accepted money from the Association of Federal, State, City and Municipal Employees (AFSCME), to blog at a Democratic event. AFSCME has endorsed Clinton and is a longtime ally of the Clinton family. Has Marsh taken payment from AFSCME recently? If so, how much?
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
1. It's nice to see some justice done to a hater like Taylor Marsh.
Don't forget the hate she piled on Kerry, which was reprehensible, just because she didn't agree with his choice for president.
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MBS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. I really think she's gone totally off the rails
I find myself agreeing with speculation that there is money involved somewhere. . money coupled with some emotional backstory.
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kerrygoddess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Gone off the rails?
MBS, I have the utmost respect for you but "gone off the rails"? "Emotional backstory"?

It's my understanding that Taylor's decision to back Clinton has everything to do with her own informed choices and not being caught up in the emotions of holding a grudge again HRC for the "joke" incident and the possibility that the Clintons did not do enough for JK.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. That's an called for attack on MBS
She is referring to the genuine ugliness in what Marsh has written. Do you think the LV story was good journalism? I would say that omitting the facts she omitted from her source story would lead to a poor grade in high school journalism class. Charging a union with intimidation is a very serious charge and should not be made without being as honest as possible. Unions have intimidated - though it's more often in their own votes, but there seems no case here.

I see nothing to imply that she thinks Marsh was wrong to support Clinton, just wrong in the disreputable way she did it. It is sad as she is a good writer and it is her reputation on the line.
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kerrygoddess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. It most certainly is not an attack on MBS
I respect in this forum, perhaps more than you know. I do not however feel it is fair to say that there is any emtional back story to Taylor's decision to back HRC, and that is something that has been floated here for a while now. Taylor supported JK in '04, but unlike the majority in this group she was never emotionally vested as a JK supporter. That I know for a fact from email exchanges with her since '04.

She's not the enemy. I have said this here before and I think it is a damn shame you people here wage an all out war against HRC supporters.

Taylor has responded to the Sun - http://www.taylormarsh.com/archives_view.php?id=26848
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Kerrygoddess: you need a dose of reality. Taylor Marsh IS the enemy as far
as ALL of us are concerned. The crap she wrote about JK following his endorsement was beyond uncalled for, and it rivals the hate spewed about Kerry which you and I have defended for so many years now. Marsh is now an anti-Kerry blog, and it is odd to me that you are dissing folks here while defending a known Kerry hater.

I will re-print the irrefutable evidence that Taylor Marsh is a Kerry hater. Let's not even get into the lies she has told about Obama. This is based only on what she has written about Kerry.

Everyone I know who knew Adlai Stevenson loved him -- but also said that he wasn't savage enough to win the presidency -- or even if he did, to "be" president. - Steve Clemons



Phone calls galore yesterday, ranging over all different types of subjects. But one conversation out of the blue stunned me.


"Kerry endorsed Barack because he's going to teach him to fight back."



Oh God. This had to be a joke. You're kidding, I assumed. No. It's for real. Even worse is that the person to whom I was speaking gave me the impression that John Kerry didn't get the irony, or rather, the lunacy in his statement. I got a good cackle out of it. I also hadn't intended to write one word about it. Then Kerry let fly on Clinton, through a cold-call no less, to Nevada reporter Jon Ralston. Via the Las Vegas Sun, which I posted yesterday, Kerry spoke about Obama: "He produced one of the most significant ethics reform bills we passed. He has been a legislator longer than Hillary Clinton." And then this zinger: "Health care didn't pass in 1994 if I recall."

Now this is where this gets ugly for me. John Kerry is a bona fide war hero, someone who I have supported, admired, met and... but this just tears it. To hear him talk about a failure of someone else's considering his football field of flaws from the 2004 election stuns me into abject disbelief.

Adlai's ghost is going to teach the next generation's Adlai, Mr. Hope, how to fight?

Excuse me while I pick myself off the floor, dust myself off, then try to immediately rip from my mind the flashing memories of the disaster that became the 2004 campaign, which ended with Kerry losing a presidential election that was the easiest gimme in political history. No, in world history. Nah, in the history of universes, galaxies and beyond. That John Kerry could actually hand George W. Bush a win in 2004 defies all political competency when you look at the ammunition we had to run on. Kerry faced the most incurious, stubborn, ill-informed, misdirected, incompetent man to ever live in the White House. A war so mismanaged that the entire country was about to explode. A film by Michael Moore that made the case against George W. Bush for us. Money-Money-Money. And a Texan who half of America detested and who originally rode into Washington backwards on a lame mule with the help of the Supreme Court. But Kerry allowed himself, the Democratic party and the American people to be taken to the cleaners, because John Kerry served up one political gaffe gift after another.


"I actually did vote for the $87 billion before I voted against it." — John Kerry, March 16, 2004



When this beauty was unleashed with a straight face I and no doubt millions of others said If we lose this election, this is the reason. Too bad Mr. Kerry wasn't content with that monumental screw up. Instead, this quote became the model for stumble after stumble. He became the political nightmare that kept on giving and giving until many activists working on his behalf watched him on television with a bottle of booze and one eye half closed waiting for another whopper to drop from his privileged puss. Sadly, it always did.

But in a peak of amnesia that rivals any case in the most vaunted medical journals, John Forbes Kerry has the audacity to cold-call a reporter in an upcoming caucus state to talk about Clinton's 1994 health care failure. Mr. Kerry is fortunate I have a heart, because if I went back and listed all of his failures during the 2004 election (not to mention his 2006 beauties) we'd be here until after Super Tuesday and he's back in Massachusetts fighting for his political life because he opened his mouth once too often.

This is the same guy who sat on his privileged posterior while Swift Boat Veterans for Truth took him to the cleaners in the press, creating free media across the landscape of the United States, right after the Democratic convention that was a love fest of nauseating proportions without one iota of contrast drawn between Democrats and Republicans, because somebody had the bright idea that going negative would be a no-no. So right after he accepted the nomination, what happened? The swiftboaters went straight into Kerry's bona fide war hero status, while he sat back and... ... ... and... ... ... did absolutely nothing because he actually believed the American people would never buy their bull because after all he was John Kerry Democratic Nominee For President, while the rest of us twisted in the wind waiting for this guy to do something.

Instead, Kerry let weeks and weeks go by until the narrative was sewn into the fabric of the traditional media, while people like me, before I went to blogging, busted my butt in abject obscurity but with the passion of a well paid pol, putting out the real story of his amazing heroism, of which to this day I stand in awe, which is why this latest event from Mr. Oh God What Will He Say Next has me in such a fury.

And now John Kerry wants to teach another Democratic presidential nominee how to fight?

Watch out if he asks you to go wind surfing.

And no Democrat I know has ever gotten over Ohio. The sight of all those voters waiting in line for all those hours still haunts me. But to Mr. Kerry it couldn't have been won. What about fighting because the fight needed to be waged? What about standing up for the voters whether you win or not? I guess saving your own prestige and presidential hopes was more important. Fighting for Ohio to some of us was as elemental as fighting in 2000. It was the same issue, different year, same opponents, a message still needing to be delivered. Ask John Edwards. But instead Kerry folded, leaving all of those voters, the Democratic party and the American people hung out to dry in the Ohio cold. How fitting that Kerry's new protégé agreed with him.


In Washington, Obama signaled almost immediately that his career would not be defined by his race. One of the first acts of the new Congress was to certify the results of the Electoral College. Some members of the Congressional Black Caucus moved to contest the certification of the Ohio votes. Obama did not join them. In a hastily arranged maiden speech, he said he was convinced that President George W. Bush had won but he also urged Congress to address the need for voting reform. ... .. read more



Two political peewees in a kumbaya pod.

Now the ghost of Adlai of one generation has endorsed the Adlai of another. How perfect.

I've got one word for Mr. Obama: run.

God save us from Adlai's ghosts. The world can't afford another Republican.


And this one takes the cake. Quoting Rush Limbaugh to bash Kerry:

John Kerry has endorsed Barack Obama. Sorry, but this is just classless. John Kerry didn't even tell Edwards he was going to endorse Obama. Is all manner of, well, manners ignored now? I didn't understand why Gore didn't tell Lieberman first either and I'm no fan of Joe, believe me. Of course, there is no rule on this, but when you go through the fire of a presidential campaign, it isn't a small event you're united in. Evidently Kerry tried to reach him but blah-blah-blah.


Former Sen. John Edwards, D-N.C., was in Charleston, SC, this morning when an aide brought word: the Associated Press was reporting that then-VP-nominee Edwards' 2004 running mate, Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., was endorsing one of Edwards' chief rivals in the presidential contest, Sen. Barack Obama, D-Illinois.

And this was how Edwards was finding out: through the media. Not by Kerry himself. ... ..

... .. Edwards supporters, meanwhile, thought the Kerry no-call particularly rude. They argued that South Carolina was a state that embodied Kerry's failures in many ways: Having kicked off his presidential race in the Palmetto State, he went on to lose it handily to Edwards in the 2004 Democratic primary and even more handily to President Bush in the general election.



I've had the pleasure of talking to John Kerry and dealt closely with his team before the 2006 elections. He is a true American patriot. So I don't say this lightly. It also doesn't have anything to do with Kerry not endorsing Hillary Clinton. But frankly, his nod is the last thing she needs.


"The haughty John Kerry has endorsed Barack Obama. In South Carolina? ... He's just an idiot." - Rush Limbaugh (today on his show)



Rush is an incoherent bloviating gasbag. Alert the media.

But these establishment endorsements are just silly, even insulting. It's long past time to begin unsubscribing from all of these DC Democrats who use their mailing lists to push the Democratic faithful into thinking that their opinion is more important than what the people think. These mailing lists are also the remnants of the big old boy network that gang up on candidates The Establishment has decided aren't passing muster. John Edwards comes to mind.

Edwards has a passionate agenda. He deserved better than this from John Kerry.

Most of us ignore these mailers. Instead, it's time to start unsubscribing and taking the power away from people like John Kerry who wield it through his mailing list from the last presidential election.

Message sent, received, and totally rejected.



UPDATE II: Kerry doesn't want a certain female to win the nomination. Via the LV Sun:


But what about Clinton's argument that talking change is different than producing change? Listen to this, dear Flashees: "He produced one of the most significant ethics reform bills we passed. He has been a legislator longer than Hillary Clinton." And then this zinger: "Health care didn't pass in 1994 if I recall."

I would love to be on the Senate floor when they all get back.



UPDATE: This is just too priceless not to share. From reader PamelaB on Kerry endorsing Obama.:


"Senator 'I was for it before I was against it' just endorsed Senator 'I was against it before I funded it."


Ouch.


Are you going to defend the above posts, which consolidate every attack leveled on Kerry into two posts full of hate (plus a new ad hominem attack of Kerry being a possible sexist)? Or are you going to tell us to "get over" Taylor Marsh's crazed posts from a week ago, just like us heel draggers are supposed to get with the program and get over Hillary's knife in the back move on the eve of the 2006 midterm elections?


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kerrygoddess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. I'm not defending
I also think it's important to put into perspective that ultimately everyone will back the nominee.

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Luftmensch067 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Everyone will back the nominee, but I have certainly lost all respect
For Taylor Marsh. I hadn't read all of what Beachmom quotes here before, and it's inexcusable. I'm sure JK was simply speaking up for his candidate and did it in a straightforward and honest manner, as always. For Marsh to use the very fact of his saying something she construed as damaging to HRC as an excuse to let fly with this incredibly mean-spirited, fraudulent and stupid invective ("Adlai's ghost"? Please!) immediately renders her obsolete, as far as I'm concerned. Friends like Marsh will only hurt HRC's image.

I absolutely respect the right of everyone in this forum to make their own choice as far as the candidates are concerned -- that is our American right and privilege but in this forum we also respect the truth and what Marsh has been writing is not the truth.
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Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #11
22. VILE beyond words n/t
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MBS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. oh, gosh-- I've already had a very hard day at work, on top of a difficult month,
on top of a difficult year, came home early to heal my wounds, and saw all this. A fitting end to my week.

KG, my beef with Taylor Marsh is not that she's supporting Hillary -- to each her own, especially in what continues to be a crazy race. My beef with Taylor is the degree of vitriol and and contempt she's pouring on everyone else. Above all, the vitriol, including what seems to be a 180 on her treatment of JK, just plain doesn't make sense -- thus my wild guesses as to why she would act this way. No, of course, I have no data to support any of my guesses. But I can tell you , again, that her level of vitriol seems to me truly excessive,unacceptable, unjustifiable and, to repeat myself, above all, inexplicable. Thus, my scratching my head, and casting about for some sort of explanation. .

FWIW,if it helps you with context, I'm also with JK and Leahy, all the way, on the casino worker-precinct issue.

I need to recover from my week now. So I'll absent myself from further comment.
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kerrygoddess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. I know that
she's always been one to speak her mind and wasn't afraid to say when she disagreed with JK in the past including during '04. Try to take with a grain a salt of salt. I've found it easier to take most of the JK dissing with a grain of salt, because the intra-party bickering will go on regardless. It's part and parcel of of who Dems are.
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WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. I'm sorry but her comment goes WAY beyond "part and parcel" of Dem bickering
For God's sake, she isn't "disagreeing" with JK. She's viciously savaging him using every single right-wing and lefty freeper talking point in existence - she's quoting that corpulent pig RUSH LIMBAUGH and insinuating that he has a point about JK. RUSH LIMBAUGH. How you can sit in the John Kerry forum and excuse her hateful posts - which are easily as bad as the worst JK bashing I've seen on the internets from right OR left - is absolutely beyond me. You keep offering up your connections with some JK staffers and your blog as an excuse to turn a blind eye to some of the nastiest vitriol directed at JK since 04, and it's frankly disingenuous. No one here CARES that you are for Clinton - I certainly don't. That's what primaries are for. What we ALL take exception to is that you keep offering milquetoast excuses for Taylor Marsh's hateful invective just because she's your new HRC blogger buddy pal and, clearly, preserving that connection is more important to you now than standing up to lies about JK.
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Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #19
24. A MOUNTAIN of salt
is needed for what she wrote, and even that would not be enough.
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Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #18
23. I'm in the same boat
re lousy month and lousy year. Here's hoping for better to come :hug:
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Noisy Democrat Donating Member (799 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. The question isn't why she backs the Clintons
It's why she's become an over-the-top, sensationalistic Kerry-basher. She has literally gone so far as to quote Rush Limbaugh against JK. It all seems very odd. Do you know anything about why she's gotten so upset with him?
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kerrygoddess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. I don't know why
I just know that she was never emotionally vested like most of us have been. Taylor in my opinion is a valuable progressive blogger who has done a lot for the cause. I will see if I can find out what's up though.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #14
21. and how does any of that excuse lying about others
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whometense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
2. Karma's a bitch. n/t
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MBS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. ditto
also nice to see a newspaper that has some understanding of the concept of independent fact-checking, and investigative journalism. Interesting that, these days, it seems to be the smaller newspapers that are doing this job for us. Where are the NYT, WaPo, even LAT? What justifies their so-called reporters' high salaries, beyond the ability to construct a sentence?
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kerrygoddess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
5. You probably all saw
that Taylor linked to me in her initial piece. I received a tip from the Kerry supporter FYI. You all wouldn't be laughing if Taylor reported that a Clinton backed union was intimidating and then the sotry didn't pan out - would you?
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. I stopped reading her a while ago. I prefer balanced people like Digby or
the CarpetBaggerReport, even when I disagree with them, their argumentation is always well written and thoughful, while Taylor Marsh has become a propagandist for Hillary Clinton or rather an attack dog against Obama (her right, but I do not like propagandist, for whomever they argue).
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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Of course not.
We would expect a retraction and pledge to check these things out more in the future before posting. There should be some accountability for what is said on line, I think. When stories are bad and are disproved, then newspapers print retractions. That is what honorable and responsible media does. Blogs should do likewise or their credibility is in question.

That is my take anyway.
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. So do you always post rumors you recieve via e-mail on your blog
without verifying their validity?
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kerrygoddess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. I trust the person who sent it
As I said that person is a longtime Kerry supporter.
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karendc Donating Member (231 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
25. This is all I want to say on the topic
As many of you know, I do not plan to choose a candidate, preferring to remain uncommitted so I can watch them somewhat objectively and enjoy the choreography...or at least, track it. But as a former partisan ( ;) ), I have to say that we sort of knew, after 2004, that money was going to have an effect on 2008, especially in the blogger community. As those of us who were amateurs and essentially citizen-activists evolve into professional consultants and writers (and I am not one of those, nor is my husband), the question of loyalty vs. employment/access was always going to rise up.

I am not making any accusations here; I just want to remind us of conversations we had back then, as we watched the Dem party become highly ambivalent about the bloggers, moving some up and shutting others out, then changing partners and dancing, and changing their minds yet again. Money always changes everything and Taylor Marsh has had to do her own little numbers in order to be where she is. The election is going to be both ugly and hope-inspiring and we should take up meditation and drink herbal tea for the next ten months.
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whometense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Thanks, Karen.
Sounds like good advice. I plan to take it.
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MBS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. sound advice, indeed
I put MSNBC for 5 minutes and immediately had to put on a 45-minute classical CD to get my sanity back. I recommend Bach, in addition to meditation and herbal tea ;)

PS This really IS a dance, isn't it? (well, OK, also a brawl, but definitely still choreography, and plenty of plot, besides)
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