Iraq hearings on SFRC web site now

The committee is taking testimony from former military now, will take testimony on the political situatin later on today.

http://www.senate.gov/~foreign/

Excellent update on all things Iraq.

Odom was great, and I bet if any Bushies are watching they're wishing he'd spontaneously combust.

He began with the usual comments complimenting the troops

Then spoke of squandering the capital we had - on 5th war. At least 5 tactics. People need to hear this - he is clearly angry, upset at how completely bad things are. "dysfunctional to the core" This is intolerable - need to change the dynamics. McCaffery said he agreed with Kerry's entire assessment. Can't unwind on Bush's watch as he has no leverage.

Kerry is giving an excellent statement right now. :hi:

Biden's comments were very good as well. Amazing that this is the reality and very little will filter out even onto the the GD or GD-P. The MSM is happier speaking of bowling and Rocky.

Listening now to the general - How can he ask if Kerry was old enough to remember Dien Bien Fu?

and so much is in disrepair.

It really is disheartening that many who speak of being anti-war have no real interest other than to use it politically. Yours was a good try.

I may have to start hanging out in the Kerry group when noone's at home in the Biden group :)

But this testimony (don't know which general is speaking) is AMAZING.

ETA: Ah, Gen. McAffrey (sp?)

talking of not wanting to leave billions of dollars of equipment and leaving the country. This is not close to what the media is telling people - it explains Kerry's tone - he's been trying to avoid this for 5 years.

http://biden.senate.gov/press/press_releases/release/?id=99d79276-f660-4f03-b321-d8be1b7e5d19

edit to add - usually archived on SFRC site, may be archived on c-span too (streaming on c-span.org at the moment)

example from one of the experts (can't read name) - spoke of Mogadishu and then spoke of the danger of 5,000 US trainers being taken if a large part of the Iraqis became a Shia militia over night. Mentioned Dien Bien Phu - when the French lost Vietnam.

(as if any thought of Iraq isn't horrible enough)

Iraq is already a complete SNAFU - watch for the R's to set up the D's for a big fall in 2009, especially if a D wins the presidency.

I.e. they can make Basra Bien Phu hard to avoid....

This was an amazing hearing. The 3 retired generals and the foreign policy think tank person were in agreement on some very sobering points.

• It is not a question of whether the US will begin a withdrawal but how and when.
  
  
• The US Army and Marine Corp are fraying from the strain of maintaining troops in Iraq. We have soldiers on their fourth deployments in Iraq. This is leading to a large number of people getting out of the service as soon as they are eligible to do so and to a marked decrease in the number and quality of replacement troops available.
  
  
• The Iraqis are using the US troop presence as a crutch that enables them to continue their sectarian and religious factional wars without bearing the whole burden of the consequences of those actions.
  
  
• The options for withdrawal are painful and will mean an increase in casualties for the US, no matter how a withdrawal is done. The American people have to be told this and not rosy stories that "the surge is working." We have bad and painful choices ahead of us and the American people need to hear this so that there are no surprises or illusions in that regard.
  

Sen. McCain has signaled that he intends to run on the "success" of the surge. The surge is not a success, it was a tactic that combined with other factors has resulted in a decrease in violence. However, the other factors that led to this decrease rest on fragile ground and it could collapse at any time and return Iraq to the horrible levels of violence seen in the 2006-2007 levels. McCain is arguing that we can stay in Iraq "as long as it takes" which is a fraudulent notion. The US cannot sustain this level of involvement in Iraq. We will begin a withdrawal because we have no choice but to do so. There is no sunny and optimistic outcome to this engagement. We have to find the least painful option among some very bad choices.

in the blog section.

I am also waiting for the political session to post something "in total."

These are really incredible hearings. These generals have laid it on the line in these hearings. I hope the hearing on "the political stategy" are as good.

Gen. Odom's testimony is especially sobering.

John McCain's plan to run on the surge is so dishonest. The Dems need to talk about this issues brought up in these hearings. The cartoonish stand by the Republicans is dishonest to the core and tells the American people that things are, essentially, fine in Iraq. Not so.

do you primarily mean McCain? Because what I heard from most republicans in the hearing was not cartoonish but surprisingly probing and interesting. And I am not only referring to Lugar and Hagel.

And some of the neocons in the Senate. Primarily I think of the Kyl's, the DeMint's and the Sessions, as well as McCain.

I thought Sen. Hagel's comments were wonderful. However, there are a number of Republicans who are still on the "stay the course" path and are quite nasty about any opposition to that view.

great as usual on these issues :loveya: and it was interesting how he briefly brought presidential politics into ir when he mentioned yet again the self-correcting power of elections. He was not the only one to address the issues under the unspoken assumption that the next president will be a democrat and therefore we will be getting OUT, one way or another. But interesting as Hagel's comments were (Lugar's too), I was more impressed/surprised to hear Murkowski, Voinovich and even Corker. The overall feeling I got from almost everything I heard (not all, but most of both of yesterday's hearings) was one of huge frustration at all the mistakes that were done and whose effects CANNOT be rolled back, and acceptance that the shit has hit the fan a long time ago and that there are NO GOOD SOLUTIONS now, and an honest (and from most of them intelligent as well) effort to find ways that would not be too hurtful as we try to des-intricate ourselves from the horrid mess we have created without leaving too many explosive volcanoes behind. It was very interesting, but as you said also sad and SCARY because it seemed to me at least that all explored ways lead to a dangerous dead-end.

One other somewhat related comment: something Matthews mentioned this morning got me thinking. He was very briefly talking about all the bad press and attacks, etc. that will happen when president Obama will start pulling out troops and bad things will start happening over there, as almost certainly they will. Wondering how/whether it would be possible to buttress O so that such attacks do not have to negative an impact on other actions and initiatives he will have to fight on.....

I just don't think we are having any near an honest debate. McCain's comments are actually dangerous. Iraq is on the verge of going into another very violent cycle and we are out of options. (We don't even have the fake option left of paying off the militias to stop fighting. That is what we are doing and calling a "surge." It's not working.)

McCain is lying to the American people. Everyone who has these doubts in the hearings, but votes to continue the Bush policies is lying to the American people. Eventually, we will either withdraw under some sort of plan or withdraw in chaos. Either way, it will be bloody and awful.

Who will tell the people?

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/4/2/172128/3910/94/489101

Oh, it's a series, so look out for this poster.