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fedupinBushcountry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 01:42 PM
Original message
I knew this was going to happen
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/30/mccain-uses-swift-boat-ve_n_110003.html">McCain uses Swift Boat Vet Bud Day to Dispute Wesley Clark

What http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/30/clark-mccain-a-hero-but-l_n_109988.html">Clark said: "That large squadron in the Navy that he commanded _ that wasn't a wartime squadron."

Moderator Bob Schieffer, who raised the issue by citing similar remarks Clark has made previously, noted that Obama hadn't had those experiences nor had he ridden in a fighter plane and been shot down. "Well, I don't think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be president," Clark replied.


Obama responded through spokesperson Bill Burton: "As he's said many times before, Senator Obama honors and respects Senator McCain's service, and of course he rejects yesterday's statement by General Clark." ( Thank you, Senator Obama)

This attack on military service has got to stop, it is wrong on both sides of the aisle, period. This is not going to help us win and show us to be as low as the liers in '04. Now I believe we know one of the main reasons why Kerry is being put on trial again by the scum on the right.

Just my 2 cents as a wife of a 20 year Navy veteran.




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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
1. You speak for me, Fed Up
Edited on Mon Jun-30-08 01:50 PM by beachmom
Also, this guy's name came up when I was doing research on the Kerry/McCain story:

http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2005/05/30/050530fa_fact_bruck?currentPage=1

Accompanying McCain on this visit was Colonel George (Bud) Day, a leader of the P.O.W.s at the Hanoi Hilton and one of the men whom McCain credits with having saved his life. Day and a cellmate took care of McCain after he was put in their cell. Day was also prominently featured in ads prepared by the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, which attacked Senator John Kerry’s Vietnam service last year. In one commercial, Day addressed himself to Kerry, asking, “How can you expect our sons and daughters to follow you when you condemned their fathers and grandfathers?” When McCain defended Kerry and denounced the ads, Day was upset with his old comrade. “Something that made Bud such an ideal leader in prison was his tunnel vision,” McCain told me later. “That makes him behave on the outside—well . . . ” He trailed off, chuckling. “But in prison there were guys who would listen to the Vietnamese propaganda, they’d begin doubting their country. Not Bud! He’s straight tunnel vision, screw ’em! He didn’t join in philosophical discussions about whether the war, you know, was justified—and that’s what you want in a leader in that environment. Whereas the other guys, we used to call them the political scientists, would sit around and discuss, ‘Well, the Geneva agreements, you know—’ But the time to debate and discuss all that was before you got shot down. Once you’re in prison, then you’re expected to adhere to the Code of Conduct.” It stipulated that prisoners were not to disclose any significant information to their captors, and were to agree to be released only in order of capture. Day refused to listen to the North Vietnamese propaganda radio show featuring Hanoi Hannah, but McCain enjoyed it. As though reminiscing about some picaresque adventure, McCain continued, “I used to love to listen to Hanoi Hannah. Every once in a while, they’d play a decent song. Somebody left a bunch of old Louis Armstrong records in Hanoi for some reason, and if they played those it was great.”


The problem in this case is Bud. He's a hypocrite. But he will never see it that way. I think any ideas that Gen. Clark will be VP have been squelched, if they ever were considered.

I also have decided this is why Lipscomb's smear screed was published in the Huff Post. Some on the Left, have decided they are going to attack McCain's service, but that opens them up to calls of hypocrisy for slamming the swiftboaters. Their solution? Throw John Kerry under the bus. Shameless.
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ray of light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Wanna bet that JK goes after McCain now...just like your post at Kos the other day mentioned...
HE (and you) KNEW he'd have to get back to McLIAR on this.
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Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-01-08 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #1
10. Interesting quote
And yes, bye, bye Clark as VP, which maybe another negative consequence of this episode. I have no idea who I would like as VP (there are a couple of names that I definitely do NOT want), but Clark was definitely in my "not bad" list, a rather long list I must say.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
2. I agree
I don't know what he was thinking when he said it.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-02-08 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #2
13. Same here - but that was Clark's major deficit in 2004
There were things he said without thought. In fact, his comment in 2003/2004 that Kerry was "just a lieutenant" was just as bad. Neither McCain or Kerry were saying their national security or foreign policy knowledge was from their service. There were also many years in the Senate on relevant committees. His comment here is wrong for precisely the reason the statement backfired in 2004.

I think Clark did turn out to be a great surrogate in 2004, but given that comment, the repeating the intern garbage to reporters, and a strange answer on abortion that I think essentially said he supported it unconditionally for 9 months) all said in the primaries made him a very risky choice. This comment adds to that.

In contrast, both Obama and Kerry have done an excellent job giving McCain praise - ungrudgingly, for his service - and focusing on where he is completely wrong on issues. It is not that he didn't head a big wartime unit - it is that he has no understanding of the biggest issues of the time. It is not that he occasionally says Sunni when he means Shiite - as I have heard Biden do occasionally - it is he misses completely the importance of the groups. This leads him to claim that some Al Quaeda was trained by Iran! It is this that Obama (and Kerry and Biden) understand and McCain does not.
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MBS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-02-08 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. fabulous analysis--thanks! n/t
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fedupinBushcountry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-02-08 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. That was the first thing
that came to my mind was when Clark said JK was "Just a Lieutenant". I thought that did not go over to well for him back then. I agree with your analysis.
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
3. At least, he could have thought it would be distorted.
I have no beef with Clark trying to point that McCain's military experience (that he is trying to leverage as relevant to his ability to govern) is not that relevant. This has NOTHING to do with attacking his courage, or his service by lying.

However, there is no doubt it would be twisted in what it was not and force Obama to make a statement rebuking it.

I do not think the Liscomp article has anything to do with it. It is just the Huffington Post allowing anybody with any kind of claim to fame to post. We have seen plenty of inept and disgusting things written by people on every side and this is just one more.
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ray of light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. I have no beef with Clark's statement either. He didn't dispute McCain's service
Edited on Mon Jun-30-08 02:31 PM by ray of light
he simply stated that McCain's service didn't qualify him as a person who has experience in executive branch job duties.


Also, he actually said that McCain was a war hero and a pow. However by the same token McBush tried to claim that Obama who didn't serve was not qualified and he did serve and therefore was. In other words, McCain CHALLENGED them to let him get away with this.


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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Wow, I disagree. Gen. Clark was very unhelpful. The headlines were awful.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. that's the media's fault
Clark words mostly came from what Schieffer was going on about. the media doesn't include the full video or transcript and just makes it as if Clark out of nowhere was questioning or criticizing MCCains service.

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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-01-08 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. No, blaming the media is not really it. The media still don't know
what swiftboating is. It is not stating an opinion about someone's military service. It is LYING about someone's military service. But it is a fact that they don't get it. So .... given that reality, Clark was pretty stupid to take Schieffer's bait. You wouldn't catch Kerry being so foolish. Kerry would have smartly answered the question in a way that was respectful to McCain in regards to his service, but also went back to "judgment". It can be done and said. You can actually look at Clark's clarifying statement released yesterday, and see how it could have been said without causing a firestorm and an opening to the McCain campaign.
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-01-08 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. The problem is that the exchange started because Schieffer asked Clarfk why he was supporting
Edited on Tue Jul-01-08 12:29 PM by Mass
Obama after having said again and again that he was not ready to govern. Clark then answered that McCain had no executive experience (implying that he was not better than Obama), and then proceeded to say the contentious exchange.

While my only issue with Clark is that it was an awkward statement that allowed the media to take a segment in isolation, I am not ready to let them off the hook (Looks way too much like the joke to me - Any idiot would have got what Clark meant, particularly given he called McCain a hero just before).

However, the main point is that Kerry would not have been caught saying something that negative about Clinton, so the point would not have happened. I hope the Obama campaign is aware that this will come back each time they have somebody like Clark or Rendell (not to speak about Bill) intervening as their adviser on TV.
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ray of light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
4. KERRY RESPONDS TO MCCAIN SURROGATE STATEMENT THAT SWIFT BOAT ATTACKS WERE THE 'TRUTH'

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Sen. John Kerry today released the follow statement in response to John McCain surrogate Colonel Bud Day's comment that "the Swift Boat 'attacks' were simply revelation of the truth" today on a conference call with reporters:

"Colonel Day's comments today only further highlight the McCain campaign's disregard for a new kind of politics. John McCain condemned these kinds of attacks in 2004 when he called the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth 'dishonest and dishonorable.' Senator McCain should condemn these remarks and cut ties with the Colonel and anyone else connected to SBVT. Day's comments only serve to disparage all those who served on swift boats in Vietnam."
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Awesome. Love it! Thanks for posting.
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-05-08 12:17 AM
Response to Original message
16. Oh,and now this: 7 Naval contempories of John Kerry send letter to McCain
Edited on Sat Jul-05-08 12:18 AM by beachmom
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/07/02/still-fighting-nam-kerry_n_110501.html

Read the post by Sam Stein. Here is the letter.

Dear Senator McCain:

After General Clark's comments last weekend, your campaign stated strongly that dismissing anyone's service has no place in any campaign in our country. No matter what anyone thinks of General Clark's comments, as veterans, we wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment that casting aspersions on anyone's service is not acceptable discourse.

In that spirit, we are deeply concerned over the comments of your campaign surrogate Bud Day, whom you tapped to represent your campaign the day after General Clark's comments. Your campaign provided a platform for Mr. Day to continue spreading the false and malicious smears of the so-called Swift Boat Veterans for Truth (SBVT).

As Swiftboat veterans, we believe very strongly that there is no place in a campaign for perpetuating the continuing denigration of the honorable service of so many men, including Senator Kerry but also including the many men who served with him during the events that served as the backdrop for the SBVT lies. Your campaign's statements about General Clark's comments indicate that your campaign believes the same, but your actions with Mr. Day are not consistent with that belief.

We recently wrote a letter to SBVT funder T. Boone Pickens detailing just a portion of the lies spread by the SBVT, contradicting Mr. Day's contention of Monday that, "The Swift Boat 'attacks' were simply revelation of the truth." We are attaching that letter so you can get a sense of the scope of the dishonesty of those attacks.

In 2004, you yourself called the SBVT campaign "dishonest and dishonorable," and said that you "deplored this type of politics," but your actions in providing a platform for Mr. Day persuaded us that perhaps you needed a reminder just how dishonest and dishonorable the campaign was.

With this information in mind, we respectfully request that you and Mr. Day disown the proven lies and shameful tactics of the SBVT, or, failing that, we ask that you disassociate your campaign from Bud Day and from anyone who was a part of the SBVT. We understand that there are decisions made in haste during the heat of the campaign that do not reflect the underlying values of the candidate. We sincerely hope and believe that this was one of them, and we look forward to your announcement that your campaign has renounced this action.

Sincerely:

James Rassman
Veteran, US Army

Wade Sanders
Veteran, US Navy

Drew Whitlow
Veteran, US Navy

Fred Short
Veteran, US Navy

Eugene Thorson
Veteran, US Navy

Jim Wasser
Veteran, US Navy

Pat Runyon
Veteran, US Navy
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-07-08 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Those guys are incredible
It is clear that in addition to their respect and affection for Kerry, they are extremely fed up with the lies.
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-07-08 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
17. Bud Day is making appearances on McCain's behalf on Fox.
http://mediamatters.org/items/200807070007?f=h_popular

I guess McCain isn't going to "cut him loose".
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-07-08 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. The swift boaters are losing much credibility. Most people know they were political hacks.
McCain makes himself a very small man by even appearing with them. How about that flip flop? He supposedly denounced them and "defended Kerry' as the story goes and now look - he appears with them. Wow, what judgment and what integrity that takes.
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